Global Warming backdown

[Michael Hardner]

Look around you and assess the collective "societal" choices made to date....then reconcile with your "manifesto". Looks like free will wins every time.

You're attributing different qualities than we're talking about. We're not talking about collective choices, but Judeo-Christian ethics that have been with us since America was settled.

Do you know the parable of the rich man, and the camel going through the eye of the needle ? I think that you can include the loss of such values when you talk about the general erosion of (North) American values.

[bush_cheney2004]

You're attributing different qualities than we're talking about. We're not talking about collective choices, but Judeo-Christian ethics that have been with us since America was settled.

Judeo-Christian ethics does not include land ownership, slavery, or the destruction of natives.

Do you know the parable of the rich man, and the camel going through the eye of the needle ? I think that you can include the loss of such values when you talk about the general erosion of (North) American values.

There has been no such erosion...except for what little understanding of North American history that you may have had.

[Michael Hardner]

There has been no such erosion...except for what little understanding of North American history that you may have had.

There hasn't been an erosion of values ? Your optimism is refreshing, B_C.

[bush_cheney2004]

There hasn't been an erosion of values ? Your optimism is refreshing, B_C.

Nope...."values" have been normalized and emancipated across social, economic, and gender lines.

Sorry if you don't like that.....we're not going back.

[Michael Hardner]

Sorry if you don't like that.....we're not going back.

See the term "refreshing" in my post above ?

[bush_cheney2004]

See the term "refreshing" in my post above ?

"Refreshing" is incompatible with "Judeo-Christian".

[Michael Hardner]

"Refreshing" is incompatible with "Judeo-Christian".

Do you use Muslim toothpaste, B_C É

[GostHacked]

Judeo-Christian ethics does not include land ownership, slavery, or the destruction of natives.

They sure got a funny way of showing it. That happened on both sides of the 49th.

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you use Muslim toothpaste, B_C É

Yes....it's called Halal toothpaste, with a long history pre-dating your version of North America and "God".

[Oleg Bach]

I'm talking about saving YOU, my friend. Just be sure to stay safe, is all.

BC is such a hard case. Of course he loves the whales, the smiling children - hot babes and a fast car..I just wish BC would not say things like that..save the whales on your own dime" - It does not take a penny to save a creature as grand as a person or whale _ it just take the will to do so.

[Shady]

Another day, another global warming retraction...

Climate scientists withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels

Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/21/sea-level-geoscience-retract-siddall

[Oleg Bach]

First bit of snow in Toronto this winter - warm wet slushy stuff. Snow ! Real snow! See - there is no global warming - we have snow!

[bush_cheney2004]

First bit of snow in Toronto this winter - warm wet slushy stuff. Snow ! Real snow! See - there is no global warming - we have snow!

We call that "heart attack" snow.

[Oleg Bach]

We call that "heart attack" snow.

Exactly. The wiser amongst us look at the sky and know that nature will remove the stuff made from water at ten pounds a shovel full. The less wise attack this stuff with a vengence and nature brings them to their knees with a dull pain and a sore left arm.

[Wild Bill]

First bit of snow in Toronto this winter - warm wet slushy stuff. Snow ! Real snow! See - there is no global warming - we have snow!

Of course, what happens in Toronto determines the validity of climate change and virtually everything else!

You see, Toronto is the centre of the Universe and everything revolves around it!

Just ask anyone from Toronto! At least, anyone on Toronto Council.

[Oleg Bach]

You're attributing different qualities than we're talking about. We're not talking about collective choices, but Judeo-Christian ethics that have been with us since America was settled.

Do you know the parable of the rich man, and the camel going through the eye of the needle ? I think that you can include the loss of such values when you talk about the general erosion of (North) American values.

Time for your Biblical lesson Mike..Speaking to an Coptic Christian he explained to me that the "eye of the needle" was a very low gate in the city walls. A gate that when a camel loaded with riches would have to fall to it's knees to pass through- It was the quick route to market- I guess it does symbolize American values that rich people never stoop or bow or show a humbleness of character - that they believe that money is a mans worth - even if he is truely worthless.

[Shady]

First bit of snow in Toronto this winter

Nope. It's far from the first snow in Toronto this winter. Not sure where you have been.

[waldo]

Another day, another global warming retraction...

Climate scientists withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels

Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/21/sea-level-geoscience-retract-siddall

you sad pathetic cut&paste POS denying know-nothing You truly haven't a clue - none... just when one thinks you couldn't look/be any stooopider!

here's the scoop genius boy: this (now) retracted paper was the darling of skeptics because it purported to show sea level rise results in line with the IPCC AR4 report projections. What's that you say? Ya, that's right... that particular IPCC projection is one most climate scientists challenge as being too conservative since the IPCC projection didn't include affects related to melting ice sheets (Greenland & Antarctica). In effect, this (now) retracted paper had been a challenge to the more catastrophic projections other climate scientists have brought forward in recent years.

this (now) retracted paper predicted that sea level rise from global warming would be constrained to between 7 cm and 82 cm (3 to 32 in) by the end of the century... as I said, following in line with the IPCC AR4 report projection. Note the last sentence of the above linked retraction letter: "We thank S. Rahmstorf and M. Vermeer for bringing these issues to our attention"

Surprise, surprise - the paper retraction came about as a result of scientists doing what scientists do... they review new scientific offerings, and if warranted, they respond, they challenge. Peer Review & Peer Response working as designed/intended! In this particular case the challenge to the retracted paper's authors (Mark Siddall, Thomas F. Stocker & Peter U. Clark) came from two scientists (Stefan Rahmstorf and Martin Vermeer), who themselves challenged the (now) retracted Siddall et al paper through comment and by publishing their own separate paper, Global sea level linked to global temperature, which projects a catastrophic sea level rise of 0.75 to 1.9 m (2.5 to 6 feet) by 2100.

however, once again we see the result of lazy incompetent/dishonest journalism... rather than report that an error filled paper with conservative sea level rise projections was retracted, and effectively supplanted by more catastrophic projections of sea level rise..... we get the false headlines that state the IPCC AR4 sea level rise projection can't be supported!!! And, of course, we get the parrots, like Shady, following up, lock-step.

[Keepitsimple]

you sad pathetic cut&paste POS denying know-nothing You truly haven't a clue - none... just when one thinks you couldn't look/be any stooopider!

.....once again demonstrating the arrogant, self-importance of a true believer.

[waldo]

Simple... rather than concentrate on Shady's much deserved 'terms of endearment'... in your role as a self-avowed denier, don't you have anything to state in regards the Siddall et al paper retraction, the basis for it's retraction, the implications for sea level rise, the most prominent positioning of catastrophic sea level rise projections... and, of course, another example of lazy/dishonest journalism.

nothing to say on any of that, hey Simple?

[Shady]

.....once again demonstrating the arrogant, self-importance of a true believer.

Exactly. To people like waldo, these so-called scientists can do no wrong, ever. There's always an excuse for any mistake, or manipulation, or fraudulent report, or refusal of freedom of information acts. These people are gods to him.

You've gotta wonder about the mindset of people like him. Who, in the face of incontrovertible evidence, still holds some immense vested interest in believing that man-made global warming still exists. Why do these Jim Jones types hold onto this belief so strongly? What's in it for them? What's their motive?

Anyone got any ideas?

[Keepitsimple]

Simple... rather than concentrate on Shady's much deserved 'terms of endearment'... in your role as a self-avowed denier, don't you have anything to state in regards the Siddall et al paper retraction, the basis for it's retraction, the implications for sea level rise, the most prominent positioning of catastrophic sea level rise projections... and, of course, another example of lazy/dishonest journalism.

nothing to say on any of that, hey Simple?

Another paper indicating what MIGHT happen if IPCC's fundamental data is accurate. Even at the low end of the IPCC temperature estimates, the paper estimates a pretty substantial increase in sea levels.....and that could be worrisome, if not for all the unknowns that the paper acknowledges. But in addition to how much is caused by thermal expansion, how much by melt and how much by other factors.....what is missing is that temperatures do not rise in a straight line - they go in cycles - up, down, up, down - and so far they've been going up an average of one degree farenheit per century. This paper does not attempt to qualify the effect of the constant cooling and warming of the oceans...it uses a linear approach. I don't blame them for that because to the IPCC, the cycling is either ignored or treated as just another unknown. But EVERYTHING in Climate Science springs from the accuracy of the measurement of current and historical temperatures. It's under scrutiny now but it's just too much of a coincidence that global temperatures "jumped" when so many of the weather stations were excluded from temperature measurements in 1990 - now we're hearing terms like homogenization and adjustments. It's a shame that so much trust has been lost in the IPCC and it's processes.....but when every issue, every misrepresentation, every error, every press release - either errs biasly towards AGW or exaggerates biasly towards AGW.....one can't help but be suspicious at best, angry at worst.

[Michael Hardner]

You've gotta wonder about the mindset of people like him. Who, in the face of incontrovertible evidence, still holds some immense vested interest in believing that man-made global warming still exists. Why do these Jim Jones types hold onto this belief so strongly? What's in it for them? What's their motive?

Anyone got any ideas?

Talking from your side of the fence, I will tell you sincerely that they absolutely hate the American hog-caller mentality that shouts down science on stupid AM radio chat shows. Even if it takes 20 years for the hog-callers to get it right, they won't acknowledge a single point because they have to put up with them.

That's what drove Dr. Jones nuts, IMO.

[Michael Hardner]

By the way - speaking of hog callers - Glenn Beck is the worst of the worst.

I actually suspect him of being insincere, and saying things he doesn't believe in to be popular. This is a recent suspicion, as I was surprised to read this in USA Today this weekend:

[beck] believes in global warming

“You’d be an idiot not to notice the temperature change,” he says. He also says there’s a legit case that global warming has, at least in part, been caused by mankind. He has tried to do his part by buying a home with a “green” design and using energy-saving products. “I’m willing to do anything but use the CFLs,” he says of compact fluorescent light bulbs. “I put them in once and couldn’t stand the way they lit up the room.”

http://www.usaweekend.com/article/20100219/ENTERTAINMENT01/100218001/Don-t-judge-Beck-by-his-cover

[Shady]

That's what drove Dr. Jones nuts, IMO.

I don't care about AM callers, and I don't care about Glenn Beck. I care about the thousands of scientists who have severe doubts and questions about the practices of the AGW scientific community, and their so-called scientific findings.