National Post Lambastes CPC Over FOI

[nicky10013]

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/02/10/national-post-editorial-board-blocking-our-right-to-know.aspx

Still a lot of jabs at the Liberals to keep the ones who froth at the mouth at bay, though.

[ToadBrother]

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/02/10/national-post-editorial-board-blocking-our-right-to-know.aspx

Still a lot of jabs at the Liberals to keep the ones who froth at the mouth at bay, though.

It seems to confirm the premise that no matter how much a party may try to set themselves apart before they achieve power, once they are there, it all boils down to maintenance of that power, with little or no consideration for promises, or even of the mistakes of previous governments.

At least the Liberals tried to hide things of great import. I'm not sure what's worse, a crook who tries to hide a major crime, or a moron who tries to hide a minor one.

[capricorn]

I'm not sure what's worse, a crook who tries to hide a major crime, or a moron who tries to hide a minor one.

I had a good chuckle when I read that Toad.

Thinking about it though, sometimes a moron trying to hide a minor transgression leads to bigger fish being caught. I have seen this happen more than once during my career. For example. An otherwise loyal public servant tries to claim an extra $20.00 on an expense claim he's not entitled to and a vigilant examiner spots it. In some circumstances, in spite of what appears to be a piddly monetary amount, that sometimes triggers a review of the expense claims of other public servants. (This is especially true if the manager wants to be seen as the protector of public funds and impress the boss.) That resulting audit may well lead to fraudsters, sometimes serial in nature, being caught. As I recall, the Ontario e-health scandal started with a consultant who claimed the purchase of a special type of tea on an expense claim. A more in-depth look into those consultants' expenses and, their relationships to senior bureaucrats and politicians, caused a major scandal for the McGuinty Liberals.

This is just speculation, but something of a similar nature could develop with the government's dogged refusal to release all the info on Afghan detainees, ending up that they are forced to do so under threat of prosecution and sanctions. There may (or may not be) information that would be more harmful to the Liberals than the Conservatives on the handling of detainees buried somewhere. There are plenty of government records around to make this plausible. I would bet that if any of those records would incriminate the Liberals, they would be released along with any others for that explicit purpose. These matters have a tendency to go in directions not intended, especially if there are leaks to the media.

[ToadBrother]

This is just speculation, but something of a similar nature could develop with the government's dogged refusal to release all the info on Afghan detainees, ending up that they are forced to do so under threat of prosecution and sanctions. There may (or may not be) information that would be more harmful to the Liberals than the Conservatives on the handling of detainees buried somewhere. There are plenty of government records around to make this plausible. I would bet that if any of those records would incriminate the Liberals, they would be released along with any others for that explicit purpose. These matters have a tendency to go in directions not intended, especially if there are leaks to the media.

That has been my thought as well. Folks seem to forget that a fair chunk of the Afghan mission happened under Liberal stewardship, and it defies reason to somehow assume that any nasty things might have happened only after the Tories formed government. My desire for the documents to be turned over in an unredacted form comes from my belief that, right or wrong, Parliament has the absolute right to compel a government to do so. However, I think everyone knows the whole thing is a fishing expedition, and if it cooks a few Liberal gooses in the process, then so be it.

[DrGreenthumb]

That has been my thought as well. Folks seem to forget that a fair chunk of the Afghan mission happened under Liberal stewardship, and it defies reason to somehow assume that any nasty things might have happened only after the Tories formed government. My desire for the documents to be turned over in an unredacted form comes from my belief that, right or wrong, Parliament has the absolute right to compel a government to do so. However, I think everyone knows the whole thing is a fishing expedition, and if it cooks a few Liberal gooses in the process, then so be it.

I have to call BS Toad, everyone doesn't "know" that the Afghan investigation is just a fishing expedition. A lot of people are pretty sure that it isn't. If there was nothing to be found Harper wouldn't have had to prorogue Parliament to hide from the investigators. Conservatives wouldn't have had to boycott the committee hearings, and Peter Mackay wouldn't have felt the need to lie to Parliament. The character assasination of Colvin would also have been unnecessary.

[Moonbox]

I have to call BS Toad, everyone doesn't "know" that the Afghan investigation is just a fishing expedition. A lot of people are pretty sure that it isn't. If there was nothing to be found Harper wouldn't have had to prorogue Parliament to hide from the investigators. Conservatives wouldn't have had to boycott the committee hearings, and Peter Mackay wouldn't have felt the need to lie to Parliament. The character assasination of Colvin would also have been unnecessary.

People have short memories. Even if problems began under the Liberals, most people would blame the government in power now. Regardless, one concern I sincerely do have with Harper's government is its secrecy about everything and its ineptitude on things like this. Far better to launch an inquiry and say, "This is unacceptable and we're going to change it," rather than pretend it doesn't happen and try to convince everyone it doesn't happen. Personally, I couldn't care less what Afghani police do with their prisoners, but I don't appreciate being lied to about it and I DO care about that.

[ToadBrother]

People have short memories. Even if problems began under the Liberals, most people would blame the government in power now. Regardless, one concern I sincerely do have with Harper's government is its secrecy about everything and its ineptitude on things like this. Far better to launch an inquiry and say, "This is unacceptable and we're going to change it," rather than pretend it doesn't happen and try to convince everyone it doesn't happen. Personally, I couldn't care less what Afghani police do with their prisoners, but I don't appreciate being lied to about it and I DO care about that.

The idea of launching an inquiry while a mission is underway seems absolutely nuts to me. Once we pull forces out, if it proves to be that big a deal, then fine, but an inquiry right now would be absolutely nuts.

And I do think it's a fishing expedition. No one is seriously saying our soldiers are regularly beating up Afghani prisoners (I'm sure there's the odd case here and there, that's normal in any military operation, even with the tightest discipline). Of course the Afghan government, being a rinky-dinky operation with a crook at the top abuses prisoners. I'd be awestruck if Karzai's band of goons and crooks weren't doing much much worse than that. But if you're talking about finding a back door way of investigating the Afghan government, wow, let me stand back when you pull the pin on that grenade.

Edited February 11, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Moonbox]

The idea of launching an inquiry while a mission is underway seems absolutely nuts to me. Once we pull forces out, if it proves to be that big a deal, then fine, but an inquiry right now would be absolutely nuts.

You're probably right, and like I said I could care less what the Afghans do to their own, but the amateur lies and half-assed cover-ups just make things look worse.

But if you're talking about finding a back door way of investigating the Afghan government, wow, let me stand back when you pull the pin on that grenade.

People have chosen to make a stink about it. Now what's the government to do about it?

[Smallc]

Far better to launch an inquiry and say, "This is unacceptable and we're going to change it,"

That didn't work out so well for Paul Martin.

[Moonbox]

That didn't work out so well for Paul Martin.

In his case things were too far along to ignore it and it was about something Canadians cared about: Money.

He couldn't ignore it or sweep it aside because it was pretty much the sole focus of federal politics at the time. Clearly it didn't work out for him but things were going down the shitter either way for him and most of the fault lay elsewhere. Being oblivious was his problem.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Moonbox

[eyeball]

People have chosen to make a stink about it. Now what's the government to do about it?

What governments usually do - lay back and seduce the canine until some new galvanizing/distracting event presents itself.

In the meantime that vocal minority of Canadians who toady up to authority no matter who's in power, can be counted on to cast their aspersions of treason and sedition on that vocal minority of Canadians with the temerity to question the relevance or utility of our country's institutions, especially those that deal with accountability and transparency.

[Moonbox]

Too many big words in that statement smallc

[Smallc]

Too many big words in that statement smallc

?

[Moonbox]

Haha I was just kidding. Very wordy post though

[Smallc]

Haha I was just kidding. Very wordy post though

I'm still confused. The only post I made was that one small one...maybe I'm just slow today

[Moonbox]

I'm still confused. The only post I made was that one small one...maybe I'm just slow today

It's not you, it's me. I was beyond slow last night I guess. I meant to refer to eyeball's post. Meh.

[Smallc]

It's not you, it's me. I was beyond slow last night I guess. I meant to refer to eyeball's post. Meh.

Ok. That's what I was thinking had happened....though I'm kind of hurt that I was confused with eyeball .

[PIK]

You're probably right, and like I said I could care less what the Afghans do to their own, but the amateur lies and half-assed cover-ups just make things look worse.

People have chosen to make a stink about it. Now what's the government to do about it?

Shut it down to protect the soldiers from this totally irresponsible actions by the left.

[ToadBrother]

Shut it down to protect the soldiers from this totally irresponsible actions by the left.

And just how many times do you think Parliament should be shut down? If Parliament decides to force through another investigation, do you advocate just shutting down Parliament because you don't like the question?

[eyeball]

Wouldn't it be easier to just round up the left and bury them in a hole somewhere?

It would sure make governing the country a lot easier if everyone was on the same side. We wouldn't even need a stupid Parliament.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Harper will have much to answer for. The opposition has much they want accounted for. There are lots of questions for the House to address and the people want these things taken care of.

[Argus]

Harper will have much to answer for. The opposition has much they want accounted for. There are lots of questions for the House to address and the people want these things taken care of.

The "people" don't give a shit what happened to Taliban prisoners at the hands of their own government.

[CANADIEN]

The "people" don't give a shit what happened to Taliban prisoners at the hands of their own government.

Which is why the government went hiding.

[Dave_ON]

The "people" don't give a shit what happened to Taliban prisoners at the hands of their own government.

Indeed and it's also why the polls have been unaffected by the prorogation that was conveniently timed to stop the committees that where addressing the issue...

[Oleg Bach]

I have to call BS Toad, everyone doesn't "know" that the Afghan investigation is just a fishing expedition. A lot of people are pretty sure that it isn't. If there was nothing to be found Harper wouldn't have had to prorogue Parliament to hide from the investigators. Conservatives wouldn't have had to boycott the committee hearings, and Peter Mackay wouldn't have felt the need to lie to Parliament. The character assasination of Colvin would also have been unnecessary.

Firstly Peter Mckay with his aquline Roman nose is not deserving of the postion of Defense Minister - as time will tell. Secondly people like Harper and the persons who put him there are not worried or ashamed in the least of barbaric acts perpetrated against bearded peasants..This class holds all Afghans in loathing and eletist contempt.

No one in power is the least bit interested in and "investigation" _ No one bothered to investigate who ever gave the orders to our military to turn a blind eye to the raping of young children in Afghanistan.

Lastly to shut down Parliment was simply an act of testing to see if the Canadian people and Parliment would tolerate a dictatorship. Apparently you have this fancy word PROROUGE..which means nothing - It makes it all sound so simple and innocent. The reason that this exists in our consitution was to allow the monarchy to have the right to take total power when it deemed fit. Harper by doing nothing has done everything to gain total power - He cancelled out all opposition...so now we have a KING>