wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 remember minilli vanilli or whatever they were called, they won some grammies or some other music awards and when it was discovered they lyp-synched their awards were taken back... after listening to my wife whine on and on about how Taylor Swift and her inability to sing and after her horrid performance on the Grammies I looked into it further and I find she uses something called auto-tune that corrects you if you miss a note, you don't need any singing ability it will correct your voice...inside info from technicians that work with her report she is truely awful "can't sing a lick" was one quote... so the question is this if the Grammies can take back an award for lyp-synching(milli vanilli) how can it give an award to performers like Swift? is it fair to others who can actually sing?...apparently this is not well recieved with other performers, of all those who did a live performance at the grammies only Swift did not get a standing ovation for her live performance... is auto-tune any different than lyp-synching? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 is auto-tune any different than lyp-synching? Lip synching is generally considered miming the song that has been previoulsy recorded. Consider Ashley Simpson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ_I9Q_T-C8 Milli vanilli may have lip synched...but it wasn't even their own voices they were lip synching to Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
GostHacked Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 is auto-tune any different than lyp-synching? Yes it is. Auto-tune is basically what it means. It is a post production effect you put on the voice. This way if the singer is off on a few notes here and there, the auto-tune can adjust it to make it sound the way it should be. Unfortunately you can hear it and it does not seem to fit with the tune. Most rap heavily uses auto tune. Any pop music on today's radio has extensive use of the auto-tune. It annoys the crap out of me. I mean it can be used and used well. I listen to a lot of electronic music, like house, electro, trance, and there is use of auto-tun in there as well. But it adds to the song most of the time rather than not, simply because vocals in electronic music is really not the focal point of the song. So it's used as a complimentary instrument and sits with everything else instead of front and center. Basically if you can't sing, no worries, auto-tune to the rescue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6lxO8jbVgM You can hear the odd vocoder type effect on the voice as she changes notes. That is the auto-tune kicking in. It creates a strange digital effect on the voice, it no longer becomes natural to me. Give it a day or two of listening to the radio, you will hear auto-tune all over the place. It's a real bad trend. As for Mili Vanilli, who ever it was singing on their records had a great voice. And no auto-tun was not used on that CD, the technology really did not exist until after 2000 I believe. Quote
wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 Lip synching is generally considered miming the song that has been previoulsy recorded. Consider Ashley Simpson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ_I9Q_T-C8 Milli vanilli may have lip synched...but it wasn't even their own voices they were lip synching to I know the technical difference but is there an ethical difference?..with auto-tune someone like Swift is not actually using her voice either, a computer is duplicating her tone and filling in for her... Ashley Simpson likely uses the same technology as well as lyp-snyching, sounds ok on a studio produced CD but live in person can't sing at all...which is alright for strictly entertaiment purposes are they deserving of an award while those who can really do the job aren't recognized?...it's like giving Barney Rubble an Oscar for best actor... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 You can hear the odd vocoder type effect on the voice as she changes notes. That is the auto-tune kicking in. It creates a strange digital effect on the voice, it no longer becomes natural to me. Give it a day or two of listening to the radio, you will hear auto-tune all over the place. It's a real bad trend. I knew there was digital stuff going on for singers who can no longer do the job like Cher but for someone as young as Swift and then award with a Grammy is degrading the industry and all those who can singAs for Mili Vanilli, who ever it was singing on their records had a great voice. And no auto-tun was not used on that CD, the technology really did not exist until after 2000 I believe.but ethically they're the same for me...compare her with Andrea Bocelli's performance...he's exceptional singer and does it effortlessly, Mary J. Blige who did a duet with him really struggled to match his performance and fell well short of the mark imo... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 I know the technical difference but is there an ethical difference?..with auto-tune someone like Swift is not actually using her voice either, a computer is duplicating her tone and filling in for her... From my understanding the auto tune in her profession is as pervasive as performance enhancing drugs are in the Olympics. If it ain't Taylor Swift it will be someone else.. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
GostHacked Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) I knew there was digital stuff going on for singers who can no longer do the job like Cher but for someone as young as Swift and then award with a Grammy is degrading the industry and all those who can sing Actually we could blame Cher for this whole auto-tune fiasco. , her 98 hit was one of the first auto-tuned tracks that made it to #1Mind you the use of auto-tune in this track is minimal and seems to only be really evident in certain parts of the song. But undeniably it is there. compare her with Andrea Bocelli's performance...he's exceptional singer and does it effortlessly, Mary J. Blige who did a duet with him really struggled to match his performance and fell well short of the mark imo... You will rarely get the same caliber of singing for a pop record that you would with anyone who had extensive classical training. Bocelli's voice has some power behind it, a voice you can not only hear, but feel. Ethics mean squat if a dollar is to be made. Yes even the music biz can be cutthroat and ruthless. Edited February 3, 2010 by GostHacked Quote
RB Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 she hurt my musical ear ....Stevie Nicks looked uncomfortable Quote
wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 From my understanding the auto tune in her profession is as pervasive as performance enhancing drugs are in the Olympics. If it ain't Taylor Swift it will be someone else.. I don't think she would even get by the pre-screening for american idol, no auto-tun there Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 she hurt my musical ear ....Stevie Nicks looked uncomfortable and even Nicks struggled but considering her age and lack of practice I can forgive that, same for Roberta Flack... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 Ethics mean squat if a dollar is to be made. Yes even the music biz can be cutthroat and ruthless. of course it's entertainment...but what are the value of awards if people cheat? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 I don't think she would even get by the pre-screening for american idol, no auto-tun there Oh I'm sure she would. All she has to do is, with her vocal coach's help, pick a song well within her range and practice. Say what you want, she at her very young age is extremely talented and at the top of her game. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 Oh I'm sure she would. All she has to do is, with her vocal coach's help, pick a song well within her range and practice. Say what you want, she at her very young age is extremely talented and at the top of her game. she has a vocal coach and still can't sing her own songs without auto-tune Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
M.Dancer Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 she has a vocal coach and still can't sing her own songs without auto-tune What is your evidence she uses an auto tune extensively? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
ToadBrother Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) remember minilli vanilli or whatever they were called, they won some grammies or some other music awards and when it was discovered they lyp-synched their awards were taken back... after listening to my wife whine on and on about how Taylor Swift and her inability to sing and after her horrid performance on the Grammies I looked into it further and I find she uses something called auto-tune that corrects you if you miss a note, you don't need any singing ability it will correct your voice...inside info from technicians that work with her report she is truely awful "can't sing a lick" was one quote... so the question is this if the Grammies can take back an award for lyp-synching(milli vanilli) how can it give an award to performers like Swift? is it fair to others who can actually sing?...apparently this is not well recieved with other performers, of all those who did a live performance at the grammies only Swift did not get a standing ovation for her live performance... is auto-tune any different than lyp-synching? Lip-syncing is miming. Auto-tuning is the short-delay correction of out of tune or out of pitch notes. But that's a technical difference. As far as legitimate performance, it's stills scamming the public. Sadly a lot of people use it. The age when you could go to a concert and have any expectation of seeing an honest warts-in-all performance is long dead, at least as far as the Big Stars are concerned. Edited February 3, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote
wyly Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Posted February 3, 2010 What is your evidence she uses an auto tune extensively? I came across it this morning an un-named audio technicians who worked with her, he won't reveal himself for fear of never working in the business again...do a search, there all sorts of sites that discuss it... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
fellowtraveller Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 I knew there was digital stuff going on for singers who can no longer do the job like Cher but for someone as young as Swift and then award with a Grammy is degrading the industry and all those who can sing The industry is most degraded when you provide an audience to such horrors as Cher, Swift, any of the Simpsons except Homer and the autofellatio-fest that is the Grammies. Shame on you. Quote The government should do something.
GostHacked Posted February 3, 2010 Report Posted February 3, 2010 What is your evidence she uses an auto tune extensively? I can usually pick out auto-tune without issue. There is a distinct 'sound' if you will. The example in Cher's voice when trying to change notes smoothly, the auto-tune makes the note change choppy and 'digitised' Without the auto-tune, the note change would be smooth. This is the easiest thing to catch. I don't listen to enough of her stuff to really say she uses it extensively, but if the note sounds forced, it's probably auto tune at work. Quote
Smallc Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 I would say that she doesn't use it very extensively. I can usually hear it, and I don't hear her using it that often. Quote
kimmy Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 I was listening to "Amazing" by Kanye West a while back. I am not a fan of the guy or the genre for that matter, but I like the song. It uses auto-tune, and it's not like they're trying to hide it from the listener... they morph West's voice into basically an electronic instrument. I wouldn't listen to a whole album of it, but it's an interesting effect. As for Taylor Swift... if your singing is so bad it makes Stevie Nicks uncomfortable, that's really saying something. There is a lot of debate about whether Pink's performance on the show was "real" or lip-synced. A lot of people feel that she just couldn't have sounded that good while soaking wet and spinning in circles while suspended upside-down from a sling and dressed in Milla Jovovich's costume from The Fifth Element. I mean, if she can sing that well in a studio, that's impressive... if she can sing that well while doing Cirque du Soleil acrobatics, that's freaking amazing. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
August1991 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 It seems appropriate to put this quote of Lil Wayne here. (I have to admit that I vaguely know that Lil Wayne is a rap "singer".) Asked how he approached the Dylan part and whether he sang or rapped it, Wayne said that was an embarrassing story, since he's not known as a singer and he just tried to do his best to make it work. "I don't know how to sing. I approached it the best way I know how, brother," he told a reporter with a smile. MTVIf Paris Hilton can be a celebrity for being blonde and rich, I guess someone else can be a celebrity for... talking. Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) I'm not even sure why people are making a big deal of Swift. She's your standard cookie-cutter music sensation. Her songs don't overwhelm me, and I've seen equally good singing in bar bands. She's young and good looking, which makes what or how she sings practically superfluous. The Grammies represent everything that has gone wrong with the music industry; it's about beautiful people who may or may not be able to sing being congratulated by other beautiful people, with the odd nod to someone who actually has talent (ie. like last year's nod to Levon Helm's fantastic Dirt Farmer, an honor that should have been bestowed on one of the best damned musicians of the 20th century). I'm sitting back and listening to Them Crooked Vultures, probably the best thing to come out of 2009. I mean, it's got Josh Homme, Dave Grohl and no less than John Paul Jones, and from what I've seen of the Youtube videos, they don't use autotuning live, and kick serious ass. That pretty much disqualifies them from the computer-filtered voicefest that is the Grammies). Edited February 4, 2010 by ToadBrother Quote
DogOnPorch Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 ...any of the Simpsons except Homer Hey. Jessica Simpson is my favorite porn star. No dissin' her...lol. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 I'm not even sure why people are making a big deal of Swift. She's your standard cookie-cutter music sensation. Her songs don't overwhelm me, and I've seen equally good singing in bar bands. I don't agree with that assessment at all. I don't think she's very attractive, but I would say that she has some very good writers for her music. I suppose you have to like that kind of music. Quote
GostHacked Posted February 4, 2010 Report Posted February 4, 2010 I don't agree with that assessment at all. I don't think she's very attractive, but I would say that she has some very good writers for her music. I suppose you have to like that kind of music. I would not kick her out of bed myself. I think she is a damn good lookin lass. But I am not a country person so I can't listen to her music. ToadBrother I am struggling to think of a rock band that uses auto-tune. I am sure it is out there. Auto-tune would not work for people like Brian Johnson (ACDC) And even though Ozzy can't speak very well, I have seen him live a few years ago, and the man can still belt them out, and on key. Amazing singer that Ozzy is. There is also a auto-tune for the rest of the track as well. A program called Melodyne http://www.celemony.com/cms/ The really cool thing about this program is that it is totally post production. Notes on instruments can be changed using this program. That is not the most impressive part of it though. You can use a finished source like an MP3 or .wav file and tweak the notes for each instrument within the program. Then wraps it all back up into the MP3 or the sound source you are using. This can be useful for fixing minor things that went wrong in production. Not everyone is perfect. I'll eventually pick up Melodyne, but it not cheap. I have spent a few grand on my audio gear so far, the program I use FL Studio ran me close to a grand. Worth every penny. Quote
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