For those fed up with Harper's undemocratic behavior, tell your MP

madmax · January 7, 2010

This is a complete non-issue.

Running Scared?

And what Canadians care most about right now, is jobs and the economy.

Nothing wakes up the Unemployed and recently out of work and those working in precarious low paying jobs anger up more, then a Lazy and Arrogant government where MPs are making $155,000 with ample time off, deciding that no-one is watching them feed at the trough and get extended holidays. Yes, its jobs and the economy stupid. <_<

GET BACK TO WORK!!! :angry:

So if the Liberals and NDP wanna go around complaining about Harper's prorogue of Parlaiment, I say, go for it. Because the average citizen will just stare back at you with a glazed look over their eyes.

You're arguing over procedure not policy. Canadian's don't care.

Those comments smell of Liberal Arrogance. But surprise its Conservative Arrogance rising to the top.

Nice to see how well your thoughts are connecting with Blue/White Collar workers.

I can see all those Nortel Employees agreeing with you.

NOT!

msdogfood · January 7, 2010

This is a complete non-issue. Canadian voters have no confidence in any of the other party leaders. And what Canadians care most about right now, is jobs and the economy. So if the Liberals and NDP wanna go around complaining about Harper's prorogue of Parlaiment, I say, go for it. Because the average citizen will just stare back at you with a glazed look over their eyes.

You're arguing over procedure not policy. Canadian's don't care.

he is doing so well on the jobs and the economy NOT!!!!.

madmax · January 7, 2010

There's been a lot of firsts. Like the way the Liberals and NDP teamed with the Bloc to try and take down the government. That was also a first. In the past, no one had invited seperatists to be included in a possible government.

Can't change the channel on this one. This is about Proroguing and the

justification, or more importantly the lack of justification for doing so.

The BQ crutch doesn't exist for 2010.

Come up with something legitimate.

Edited January 7, 2010 by madmax

Topaz · January 7, 2010

Since Harper and the Tories have made the PMO, we have witness his scheming and lying and getting away with it because his supporters don't care except that he's a Conservative. Now, we have prove that there was torturing done and may also be still going on, but the most important thing is the honesty of this government and more and more Canadians are realizing that there IS a covering up of lies and both the government and the military should be held for it. The punishment for international law of torturing is jail time and I can understand why Harper MUST prorogue Parliament to keep certain people and himself out of international court and jail. This could have all been avoided if only they had come forward and said mistakes were made but instead they coverup and lie. The TRUST is gone from this government. There nothing wrong about proroguing Parliament ITS the REASON for doing it!

eyeball · January 7, 2010

We can let him get away with it only by having credibility of our political system compromised seriously and perhaps, irrevocably.

I think it's safe to say that particular ship has long since sailed beyond the horizon.

msdogfood · January 7, 2010

The Ekos Poll is virtually status quo. I don't believe it reflects prorogation as a ballot question. I was looking for more details but the pdf file wouldn't load for me.

Ekos Poll like that the pmo will not get a majority.

ZenOps · January 7, 2010

Perhaps Harper is doing us all a favor in pointing the real politik of our age, that no one gives a damn. Other than journalists, editorialists and political junkies like us, maybe he's right and maybe Canadians don't know and don't care how the government is working, and have no real interest in the slow degradation of our institutions. Four centuries ago, a bloody civil war that ended with a king beheaded was fought over Parliament's supremacy. MPs defied the authority of the day. Our democracy seems to be going out not with a bang, and hardly a whimper. We have a generation coming up who cares more about XBoxes and iPods.

I think you hit it right.

Noone cares. Do I really care or does anyone else really care say that Rob Anders is one of the most racist men and MP left in North America? Not really because we all know that the Canadian Government is just cerimonial with no real power. The odd time the Canadian government is working - they are repealing laws and not making them.

There are some legitimate political people who understand how it all works, and know how backwards the whole system has become and want to change it so that at least *something* gets done.

These politicians can at least feign working for the sake of employment morale in Canada though. These guys are setting a worse example than Cheech and Chong (Rob Anders is the laziest racist of all time? Sure.)

Not that I can really blame them - If I could self appoint myself month long paid holidays I sure as heck would do it as well.

Edited January 7, 2010 by ZenOps

msdogfood · January 7, 2010

Since Harper and the Tories have made the PMO, we have witness his scheming and lying and getting away with it because his supporters don't care except that he's a Conservative. Now, we have prove that there was torturing done and may also be still going on, but the most important thing is the honesty of this government and more and more Canadians are realizing that there IS a covering up of lies and both the government and the military should be held for it. The punishment for international law of torturing is jail time and I can understand why Harper MUST prorogue Parliament to keep certain people and himself out of international court and jail. This could have all been avoided if only they had come forward and said mistakes were made but instead they coverup and lie. The TRUST is gone from this government. There nothing wrong about proroguing Parliament ITS the REASON for doing it!

this will bite the pmo everyone is forgetting the Federal case pmo v bc civil liberties & Amnesty International on torturing!

g_bambino · January 7, 2010

Noone cared when parliament was prorogued before 1975, because back then the Canadian govt really didn't have to do anything. Our laws were ironclad taken from the British North America Act. If the goverment went years sitting on their asses doing nothing - it was just par for the course.
Canada really only gained partial control of its own destiny in 1982 with the Canadian Constitution, about the time you could say that Canada had some semblance of "Democracy". To Prorogue government at this point in time and for such petty reasons is irresponsible to every Canadian citizen.

It's this kind of ignorant spew that I worry gets the masses riled up. Forget about facts and comprehension; let's just let our emotions take over and run with them. As the lynch mobs in South Park always say: "Rabble, rabble, rabble!"

nicky10013 · January 7, 2010

It's this kind of ignorant spew that I worry gets the masses riled up. Forget about facts and comprehension; let's just let our emotions take over and run with them. As the lynch mobs in South Park always say: "Rabble, rabble, rabble!"

The facts and comprehension speak for themselves. People are upset and it's not because the Liberals or other people have tried to spook people. This is coming from below. 85,000 people on facebook in 3 days speaks to that entirely.

Conservatives are, quite adeptly, ignoring the entire issue around prorogment. No matter how many times people actually explain how and why the house has been proroged before and the difference between these last two examples, they'll always just smile and say, what difference? It's all the same. The only people here seemingly working from a party playbook are the people defending this.

Anyways, here's the #1 story from the globe and mail.

Economist vents spleen on PMs decision to prorogue

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/the-economist-vents-spleen-on-pms-decision-to-prorogue/article1422507/

madmax · January 7, 2010

It's this kind of ignorant spew that I worry gets the masses riled up. Forget about facts and comprehension; let's just let our emotions take over and run with them. As the lynch mobs in South Park always say: "Rabble, rabble, rabble!"

Speaking of Rabble babble, the left wing forum. There isn't nearly the discussion and concurrent threads going on proroguing as there is here. Which is more reason to worry that this is receiving more commentary here on a Centre Right, Centre Left forum and the only ones coming to the prorogation defense are people like Mr. Canada and Shady.

Others are a little more analytical and cautious.

I don't know if this is the game changer that Lawrence Martin suggests, but it certainly puts a ball in play.

Last time Harper did a media blitz to cover his butt. It was successful.

I think people will laugh their asses off if the CPC comes up with a commercial on why The Prime Minister has taken a holiday or why his finance minister is so incompetent that he has closed down parliment.

g_bambino · January 7, 2010

pread your propaganda elsewhere.

Perhaps we need a unique term for this situation: prorogaganda! :lol: ............. *cough* Sorry.

g_bambino · January 7, 2010

The facts and comprehension speak for themselves.

They do. It's extremely unfortunate, though, that the most rabid amongst us seem not to even bother with what the facts and comprehension have to say. The Canadian government had nothing to do before 1975? WTF!? A person can come up with a reason to hate anything, if they're allowed to revise history to suit, that is.

msdogfood · January 7, 2010

The PMO may also have a Wildrose problems flashback to lat 90s rite wing self destructed and impeded on it self!!

lasting 12 to 15 years back than!! hmmmmmm.

Shady · January 7, 2010

Its like defending Adscam

Really? Since when is Adscam an instrument provided for under the Canadian constitution? Please think before you speak. Or in this case, type. :lol:

Shady · January 7, 2010

and the only ones coming to the prorogation defense are people like Mr. Canada and Shady.

I'm not coming to the defense of prorogation. I'm simply stating the truth. That anyone who describes this activity as 'undemocratic' is completely and utterly wrong. It's an instrument provided for under the Canadian constitution, in which the GG has to agree. Calling parlaimentary acts undemocratic is hyperbole, and more importantly, unintelligent, and dishonest.

eyeball · January 7, 2010

Perhaps Harper is doing us all a favor in pointing the real politik of our age, that no one gives a damn. Other than journalists, editorialists and political junkies like us, maybe he's right and maybe Canadians don't know and don't care how the government is working, and have no real interest in the slow degradation of our institutions.

Is this the fault of ordinary Canadian's or the establishment?

Perhaps if our democratic governance was more localized people would be able to see it, touch it and perhaps feel motivated to participate in it.

You know who's hands our governance would likely fall into? Political junkies like us.

nicky10013 · January 7, 2010

Really? Since when is Adscam an instrument provided for under the Canadian constitution? Please think before you speak. Or in this case, type.

Unfortunately the situationw we're in is worse than ad scam. Money was stolen but in the end it was repaid. The damage Harper is doing to our democracy is unprecedented. I'd rather the government lose a million dollars than cash in on my freedom.

DrGreenthumb · January 7, 2010

This is a complete non-issue. Canadian voters have no confidence in any of the other party leaders. And what Canadians care most about right now, is jobs and the economy. So if the Liberals and NDP wanna go around complaining about Harper's prorogue of Parlaiment, I say, go for it. Because the average citizen will just stare back at you with a glazed look over their eyes.

You're arguing over procedure not policy. Canadian's don't care.

Just by the traffick on this site and other on proroguation related threads on other blogs it would seem that Canadians DO care.

Edited January 7, 2010 by DrGreenthumb

Shady · January 7, 2010

Your entire policy gamble is based on Canadians being too stupid to understand our institutions.

No, it's about Canadian's prioritizing. If any policy is based on Canadian's being too stupid, it's the policy of the left. Thinking that government can best look after people's lives then they can themselves. Thinking that government can best provide for them, and spend their money more wisely and efficiently. Look in the mirror.

Shady · January 7, 2010

I'd rather the government lose a million dollars than cash in on my freedom.

It's a false choice, not to mention pure hyperbole. You have just as much freedom today as you had a few weeks ago. Go scare somebody else with your politics of fear.

Shady · January 7, 2010

Just by the traffick on this site and other on proroguation related threads on other blogs it would seem that Canadians DO care.

Nope. Anyone who's engaged enough in the process to post in a political forum is far different than the general public. The general public cares more about core issues. Like the economy, etc. Not a perfectly legitimate parlaimentary procedure provided for in our constitution.

nicky10013 · January 7, 2010

I'm not coming to the defense of prorogation. I'm simply stating the truth. That anyone who describes this activity as 'undemocratic' is completely and utterly wrong. It's an instrument provided for under the Canadian constitution, in which the GG has to agree. Calling parlaimentary acts undemocratic is hyperbole, and more importantly, unintelligent, and dishonest.

Moronic reasoning makes me want to vomit and bang my head against the wall. The only unintelligent and dishonest thing is people trying to portray this prorogment as anything but undemocratic. A prorogment isn't a prorogment isn't a prorogment. It's a parliamentary tool that has never been abused this way before. The only thing the CPC can say is that this is something that happens normally. However, they can never come up with a concrete example of a PM proroging for 2 months and in the process killing half of his agenda in order to avoid a few questions. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE UNTIL LAST DECEMBER!

myata · January 7, 2010

It's an instrument provided for under the Canadian constitution, in which the GG has to agree.

Not everything that exists in the Canadian constitution can be considered as democratic in true sense of the word. E.g. British sovereign is named the head of Canada's state and I can't see much democratic about that. As said (I'll start copy and paste the reference from now on), undemocratic is the use of this instrument by a minority faction to prevent the elected House from speaking its will.

Calling parlaimentary acts undemocratic is hyperbole, and more importantly, unintelligent, and dishonest.

What "parliament acts", are you dreaming? Progation is a deal between the PM (leader of minority faction in the Parliament) and GG (unelected official appointed by PM). Sounds really "democratic", does it?

nicky10013 · January 7, 2010

Nope. Anyone who's engaged enough in the process to post in a political forum is far different than the general public. The general public cares more about core issues. Like the economy, etc. Not a perfectly legitimate parlaimentary procedure provided for in our constitution.

Conservatives can use polls to say the coalition wasn't wanted but strangely have yet to admit to polls saying that indeed, people do care about this issue.