Topaz Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 The Red Cross has proof that McKay and O'Connor were plus others , were told about the torturing back in Sept. 28 2006. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091220/national/afghan_abuse_ministers Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 The Red Cross has proof that McKay and O'Connor were plus others , were told about the torturing back in Sept. 28 2006. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091220/national/afghan_abuse_ministers This is not going to sit well with the public. The Red Cross is a CREDIBLE source of information. Quote
Moonbox Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Is it bad that I don't really care about this? I wouldn't care if it was under the Liberals, the NDP or the Bloc for that matter. I haven't heard ANYONE outside of this forum talk about this either. I doubt it's going to really become much of an issue to be honest, as terrible as that sounds. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Is it bad that I don't really care about this? I wouldn't care if it was under the Liberals, the NDP or the Bloc for that matter. I haven't heard ANYONE outside of this forum talk about this either. I doubt it's going to really become much of an issue to be honest, as terrible as that sounds. The opposition parties will grab ahold of this and not let go. Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 The opposition parties will grab ahold of this and not let go. Which only demonstrates they have nothing of substance to offer Canadians. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
wyly Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Is it bad that I don't really care about this? I wouldn't care if it was under the Liberals, the NDP or the Bloc for that matter. I haven't heard ANYONE outside of this forum talk about this either. I doubt it's going to really become much of an issue to be honest, as terrible as that sounds. this is the party that said they would bring transperancy to government unlike the liberals...they've done just the opposite, they're secretive and they lie to us and now they put at risk having our military charged with war crimes...recent polls shown the cons dropping in popularity is this the reason? I don't know but I don't doubt it's part of it...and yes you should care about torture, the international rules regarding torture are meant to keep Canadians being subjected to it, if we ignore those rules why should any other country obey them? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Argus Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 The Red Cross has proof that McKay and O'Connor were plus others , were told about the torturing back in Sept. 28 2006. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091220/national/afghan_abuse_ministers Every time some new bit of information appears you wild-eyed ultra-leftists seem to find the need to start yet another new thread - usually with some kind of splendiferous, and blatantly nonsensical title. They lied? Yes, that's your assumption every time a tory speaks. However, the cite you post has NO information which would lead to evidence that they lied. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. NADA. All it said was the red cross met with them to voice concerns about Afghanistan and the prisoner situation, and.... Unofficially, sources in Geneva said the international agency, whose functions include monitoring the treatment of prisoners, was growing frustrated over Canada's tardy notification of its handover of captured suspected Taliban to Afghan authorities. The delay could often be as much as 34 days, making it difficult to track the detainees. So it was a meeting about administrative issues, not a meeting where evidence was presented showing prisoners handed over by Canada had been "tortured". So you FAIL once again, at anything even approaching an honest assessment of information. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Every time some new bit of information appears you wild-eyed ultra-leftists seem to find the need to start yet another new thread - usually with some kind of splendiferous, and blatantly nonsensical title. They lied? Yes, that's your assumption every time a tory speaks. However, the cite you post has NO information which would lead to evidence that they lied. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. NADA. All it said was the red cross met with them to voice concerns about Afghanistan and the prisoner situation, and.... Unofficially, sources in Geneva said the international agency, whose functions include monitoring the treatment of prisoners, was growing frustrated over Canada's tardy notification of its handover of captured suspected Taliban to Afghan authorities. The delay could often be as much as 34 days, making it difficult to track the detainees. So it was a meeting about administrative issues, not a meeting where evidence was presented showing prisoners handed over by Canada had been "tortured". So you FAIL once again, at anything even approaching an honest assessment of information. There is no doubt in my mind that there is fault with the administrative end of things, we call that the government. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Why do you care that some Taliban members got tortured? The Taliban are completely against womens rights and see them chattel. Kill your homosexuals on sight and are much more conservative then I could ever be. Yet you socialists want to support them...I don't get it, lol. The Afghans are to run their own country right? Well then they run it how they see fit. If they break the rules it's on them not us. This isn't a colonial situation here. We're helping the Afgans get ready to run their own country we aren't running it for them. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
wyly Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Why do you care that some Taliban members got tortured? I care, and when it's my tax dollar that pays for someone to be tortured I want nothing to do with it... the people we support with our taxes to torture are no better than the Taliban... The Taliban are completely against womens rights and see them chattel. Kill your homosexuals on sight and are much more conservative then I could ever be. Yet you socialists want to support them...I don't get it, lol.as do other countries that we trade and have diplomatic relations with, so why do we deal with the Suadi'sThe Afghans are to run their own country right? Well then they run it how they see fit. If they break the rules it's on them not us. This isn't a colonial situation here. We're helping the Afgans get ready to run their own country we aren't running it for them.when we knowingly hand over detainees to be tortured/killed we are accomplices by the rules of the Geneva Convention...even the Afghans have said many if not most of the detainees are innocent bystandersif the side we are supporting is no better than those we're fighting then Canadians are getting killed for nothing... Edited December 21, 2009 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Torture is wrong. Abuse at the hands of authority is wrong. Covering up information is wrong. In this nation all of these things are literally illegal. Quote
ToadBrother Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Which only demonstrates they have nothing of substance to offer Canadians. Translation: It's okay when my favorite party lies, so I'll pretend no one cares. Quote
ToadBrother Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Why do you care that some Taliban members got tortured? The Taliban are completely against womens rights and see them chattel. Kill your homosexuals on sight and are much more conservative then I could ever be. Yet you socialists want to support them...I don't get it, lol. The Afghans are to run their own country right? Well then they run it how they see fit. If they break the rules it's on them not us. This isn't a colonial situation here. We're helping the Afgans get ready to run their own country we aren't running it for them. Because we're supposed to be a country that doesn't knowingly permit torture. Just because these are very bad guys doesn't mean we all surrender or morals at the door. I thought you were far right Christian, and yet you seem to be trumpeting moral relativism. Ah hypocrisy, thy name is Mr. Canada. Quote
Topaz Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Posted December 21, 2009 Every time some new bit of information appears you wild-eyed ultra-leftists seem to find the need to start yet another new thread - usually with some kind of splendiferous, and blatantly nonsensical title. They lied? Yes, that's your assumption every time a tory speaks. However, the cite you post has NO information which would lead to evidence that they lied. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. NADA. All it said was the red cross met with them to voice concerns about Afghanistan and the prisoner situation, and.... Unofficially, sources in Geneva said the international agency, whose functions include monitoring the treatment of prisoners, was growing frustrated over Canada's tardy notification of its handover of captured suspected Taliban to Afghan authorities. The delay could often be as much as 34 days, making it difficult to track the detainees. So it was a meeting about administrative issues, not a meeting where evidence was presented showing prisoners handed over by Canada had been "tortured". So you FAIL once again, at anything even approaching an honest assessment of information. Maybe you don't watch Question Period in the Commons, over and over again McKay said there is no proof of torture of prisoners once they were turned over to the Afghans. Here's we have McKay and O'Connor being told there was, which Mckay omitted to Parliament. Why? Because certain people within the government and the military bosses, made sure nothing was written down, no paper trail. Torturing is wrong but so is lying to Parliament and to Canadians and its the lying and the covering up that is out in front now!! Maybe some don't care about the torturing but do you care when the government you believe is honest and trustworthy ISN'T???? Quote
bloodyminded Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Because we're supposed to be a country that doesn't knowingly permit torture. Just because these are very bad guys doesn't mean we all surrender or morals at the door. I thought you were far right Christian, and yet you seem to be trumpeting moral relativism. Ah hypocrisy, thy name is Mr. Canada. It's true that anyone who supports and defends torture is engaging in moral relativism. Or those who say "I don't care"...which is really thinly-veiled code for...wait for it....defense and support for torture (though without even the guts to admit it). What these folks are saying is "The Taliban do not share our vaunted Enlightenment principles nor our humanitarianism...so it's pretty cool if we behave the same way they do." Which means that the Taliban DOES in fact share our values and principles...at least, they philosophically side with the pro-torture crowd. There's also another issue, and not an insignificant one: the wild-eyed, conspiratorial belief that everyone abused and tortured with Canadian collusion must automatically be a Bad Guy. That's a typical faith-based justification for barbaric behavior. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Moonbox Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Because we're supposed to be a country that doesn't knowingly permit torture. Just because these are very bad guys doesn't mean we all surrender or morals at the door. I thought you were far right Christian, and yet you seem to be trumpeting moral relativism. Ah hypocrisy, thy name is Mr. Canada. I'm not really arguing the morality of any of this, because clearly I can't. The hypocrisy in the West, however, runs SO SO SO much further than this and we seem to pick and chose when and where we get morally outraged. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
M.Dancer Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 I wonder if it was this meeting where O'Connor was lead to bekeive that the Red Cross was ovwerseeing the condition of detainees and would notify Canada if there was anything amiss? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Mr.Canada Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 This is such a non issue. Fact is that the Liberals don't have anything on the Tories what so ever and are now running with anything remotely interesting. Ignatieff is failing at everything so now he has chosen this as his election issue? LOL. Please tell us that Ignatieff has more on the Tories then this... A sovereign nation doesn't interfere with the day to day of another nation. Now you guys are attacking our Canadians soldiers and our military. How sad. The socialists really do hate Canadian soldiers. Attacking our troops day in and day out doesn't win you any points with the public. Not to mention that the public doesn't care if some of the Taliban are tortured or not. Who cares, honestly? When will the Liberals stop attacking our troops who are dying for Canada? Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
blueblood Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 I wonder if it was this meeting where O'Connor was lead to bekeive that the Red Cross was ovwerseeing the condition of detainees and would notify Canada if there was anything amiss? Exactly, why wait? Also of note, if we are going to throw Harper under the bus concerning detainees, we might as well throw PM Paul Martin under it as well. The troops started taking prisoners long before Harper was Prime Minister. Ignatieff, well he believes in torture so he has no credibility as far as this issue is concerned. In short, the Liberals are living in a glass house as far as this issue is concerned. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Unofficially, sources in Geneva said the international agency ... was growing frustrated over Canada's tardy notification of its handover of captured suspected Taliban to Afghan authorities. The delay could often be as much as 34 days, making it difficult to track the detainees. Doesn't look like an official statement from the Red Cross at all. Who knew? Bureaucracies lack accountability and expediency. Shocking. Call a press conference, someone. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 I care, and when it's my tax dollar that pays for someone to be tortured I want nothing to do with it...Oh! So you only complain when it's your tax dollars at work. I see. Nevermind all the legitimate human rights abuses that are taking place, it's better to try and create an issue at home because YOUR money is involved. Right then. Carry on. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Just for the record... you guys do know the difference between water-boarding, sleep-deprivation, electroshock treatment, etc., as opposed to a prisoner being slapped around by the cops, right? Let me give you a hint: they're both wrong, but very different things. Edited December 22, 2009 by cybercoma Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Just for the record... you guys do know the difference between water-boarding, sleep-deprivation, electroshock treatment, etc., as opposed to a prisoner being slapped around by the cops, right? Let me give you a hint: they're both wrong, but very different things. Not for these bleeding hearts...."torture" is the new "genocide" for political activists large and small. In their view, Catholic nuns practiced torture and deprivation on grade school "prisoners" in violation of their human rights! In Canada, it's better than winning the 6/49 or Super 7...just ask Maher Arar. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Catholic nuns practiced torture and deprivation on grade school "prisoners" in violation of their human rights!Like I said above, while it does not constitute torture, Catholic nuns ought not to have abused children in their care. They're both wrong, although torture is much worse. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 By the by, do we really need 3 threads on this topic? Quote
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