Your opinion on the War on Drugs

[Wilber]

Most of the studies give different results because what they use in drugs is not standardized. I've seen studies that say weed is horrible for you and others that say it does barely anything. I've seen ones that say the same for coke, heroin, and even meth. Alcohol is pretty horrible for people and I'm willing to bet it kills more people than most drugs combined.

So until drugs are stadardized and then tested you cannot say they are that bad for you.

A lot of standardised and tested drugs can be very bad for you, that is why their use is restricted to prescriptions. Any drugs that can be very harmful will not be produced legally unless they are by prescription only because of liability. We also ban other things because they are deemed to be too toxic to people or our environment. Increasing bans on the use of chemical pesticides in residential areas is a good example.

I don't think anyone disputes that alcohol can be very harmful but it is hard to fight 7000 years of culture. Unlike many other drugs, most people don't drink just to get stoned. Like marijuana, it is or is made from natural ingredients, not some chemical concoction dreamed up by some scumbag in a garage. It's likely marijuana will eventually be legalized but as anyone can grow the stuff in a pot, there will be little or no tax revenue to be gained from it and society will still have to deal with its negative aspects, regardless of what its proponents say.

[Guest TrueMetis]

A lot of standardised and tested drugs can be very bad for you, that is why their use is restricted to prescriptions. Any drugs that can be very harmful will not be produced legally unless they are by prescription only because of liability. We also ban other things because they are deemed to be too toxic to people or our environment. Increasing bans on the use of chemical pesticides in residential areas is a good example.

In those cases it effect many people whether they like it or not. Drug use only really effects the person doing the drug.

I don't think anyone disputes that alcohol can be very harmful but it is hard to fight 7000 years of culture. Unlike many other drugs, most people don't drink just to get stoned. Like marijuana, it is or is made from natural ingredients, not some chemical concoction dreamed up by some scumbag in a garage. It's likely marijuana will eventually be legalized but as anyone can grow the stuff in a pot, there will be little or no tax revenue to be gained from it and society will still have to deal with its negative aspects, regardless of what its proponents say.

The "natural ingrediant" line is crap there are plenty of natural things that are incredibly nearly instantly poisonious. That is not a good argument. But if you want to go with that line than the same thing applies to cocaine because it is made using the leaves of the Coco plant which has been chewed for thousands of years before cocaine was isolated. Crack should be legalised because it is made from coke. Heroin should be legalised because it is made from the poppy and the poppy has been grown since 3400bc. Meth isn't made from a plant but it has been used since 1893 so it has been around for a while does it count as part of the culture?

Oh and Weed, Meth and Heroin all have medical uses.

Edited December 13, 2009 by TrueMetis

[Wilber]

In those cases it effect many people whether they like it or not. Drug use only really effects the person doing the drug.

If you say you are Metis you know that is bullshit, it effects everyone they come in contact with.

[Guest TrueMetis]

If you say you are Metis you know that is bullshit, it effects everyone they come in contact with.

So first off are you only going with this bacause you can't argue against the rest of my post?

second pretty much everyone I know does drugs and they all function perfectly fine they have jobs, go to school, etc. Maybe I just don't know enough dumbasses that let the drugs control them.

Actually I have to correct that My mom was addicted to T3's for a while and that sucked. Still didn't ruin anything for me though.

Edited December 13, 2009 by TrueMetis

[Sir Bandelot]

To me it's not a question about what's "bad" for you, but about whether imposing criminality on drug users is the right aproach. I think the evidence is well in. Simply put, prohibition has not solved the problem.

Instead what it's done is ramped up the level of violence in our society, by putting drug distribution into the hands of organized criminals. Prohibition doesn't remove the market or demand for drugs, it just forces the distribution to go underground, and the value of the illegal "industry" to go sky high.

[Wilber]

Maybe I just don't know enough dumbasses that let the drugs control them.

I would say that living in Gibsons has given you a very provincial view in that case.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Wilber

[xul]

I think the flaw of the War on Drugs is the same one of the War on Terror----people hastily goes into a war to solve a problem without knowing what is the real cause of the problem.

I have to confess that I have no idea why some people use drugs, I don't mean those who are addictive because of their previous medical treatment, since people could access all knowledges of the harms of drug abuse via TV, newspaper and other media, or "education".

Half a century ago, Mao launched a "war on drug" in China by sheer coercion. All drug addicts were sent into "drug rehabilitation centers", which were some kind of "merciful jail" then to force them rehabilitation, and all drug dealers were executed. For a time, it looked like he had succeeded. But just several years after his death, drug abuse comes back.

[bush_cheney2004]

To me it's not a question about what's "bad" for you, but about whether imposing criminality on drug users is the right aproach. I think the evidence is well in. Simply put, prohibition has not solved the problem.

Hasn't "worked" for murder or sexual assault either....therefore they should be decriminalized ???

Instead what it's done is ramped up the level of violence in our society, by putting drug distribution into the hands of organized criminals. Prohibition doesn't remove the market or demand for drugs, it just forces the distribution to go underground, and the value of the illegal "industry" to go sky high.

Good news: violence and murder are still illegal...so far.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Hasn't "worked" for murder or sexual assault either....therefore they should be decriminalized ???

Good news: violence and murder are still illegal...so far.

Violent crime is going down but drug use isn't.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I have to confess that I have no idea why some people use drugs, I don't mean those who are addictive because of their previous medical treatment, since people could access all knowledges of the harms of drug abuse via TV, newspaper and other media, or "education".

I agree....can't relate to their reasons for using....trafficking I understand very well!

Screw both.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I have to confess that I have no idea why some people use drugs, I don't mean those who are addictive because of their previous medical treatment, since people could access all knowledges of the harms of drug abuse via TV, newspaper and other media, or "education".

Because in most cases the harmful effects of drugs are overblown. Come to B.C. on 4 20 and meet some serious drug users. (sure in this case it's pot only but it illustrates my point)

[Wilber]

Most property crime is due to addicts stealing to buy drugs. I don't see how that will change if the drugs they are stealing to buy are legal.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Most property crime is due to addicts stealing to buy drugs. I don't see how that will change if the drugs they are stealing to buy are legal.

This is more about the people who don't steal to get their drugs and get arrested for possession.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is more about the people who don't steal to get their drugs and get arrested for possession.

Talk about making a classist distinction....how noble!

[bloodyminded]

Talk about making a classist distinction....how noble!

How is this a "classist distinction"?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Talk about making a classist distinction....how noble!

If they want to steal to get their fix then they made their choice.

[Wilber]

This is more about the people who don't steal to get their drugs and get arrested for possession.

Really? How selective. I'll just ignore those bits.

[Wilber]

Because in most cases the harmful effects of drugs are overblown. Come to B.C. on 4 20 and meet some serious drug users. (sure in this case it's pot only but it illustrates my point)

You show him Gibsons, I'll show him some downtown metropolitan areas.

[bush_cheney2004]

How is this a "classist distinction"?

It's the same old crack vs. cocaine debate. Well heeled suburban users and traffickers of illegal drugs think they are "superior"....laughable rationalization.

[Guest TrueMetis]

You show him Gibsons, I'll show him some downtown metropolitan areas.

I go to 4 20 in Vancouver.

Really? How selective. I'll just ignore those bits.

Do whatever the hell you want. This won't help those that are that desperate, they need a hell of a lot more than just drugs being legalised 90% of them need medical doctors and medical hospitals.

[Wilber]

Do whatever the hell you want. This won't help those that are that desperate, they need a hell of a lot more than just drugs being legalised 90% of them need medical doctors and medical hospitals.

Then don't tell me the effects of drugs are overblown or that addiction doesn't effect almost everyone in our society to one degree or another. Also don't ask me to believe that everything will be OK if it is just legalized. If you want something legalized, you own it all, not just the bits you want and ignore the rest.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Then don't tell me the effects of drugs are overblown

The effects are overblown.

or that addiction doesn't effect almost everyone in our society to one degree or another.

Just because it effects someone doesn't mean it's bad, most of the effects of drug user on me have been neutral.

Also don't ask me to believe that everything will be OK if it is just legalized.

Never said that in the first place but thanks for puting words in my mouth.

If you want something legalized, you own it all, not just the bits you want and ignore the rest.

I can ignore the rest all I want. It's not my problem if some people use drugs rather than seeking proper medical help, and don't tell me they can't get that help I know they can. I only care about those people who are arrested for only doing drugs I don't care about those arrested for stealing to get them.

Shit these people will be in the same situation whether drugs are legal or not so why does it matter?

Edited December 13, 2009 by TrueMetis

[Wilber]

DELETED

Edited December 13, 2009 by Wilber

[Wilber]

The effects are overblown.

I can ignore the rest all I want. It's not my problem if some people use drugs rather than seeking proper medical help, and don't tell me they can't get that help I know they can. I only care about those people who are arrested for only doing drugs I don't care about those arrested for stealing to get them.

Shit these people will be in the same situation whether drugs are legal or not so why does it matter?

You can ignore it all you want but the consequences of addiction effect you whether you like it or not. You pay for it in higher taxes, health care costs, prices and insurance rates. If an addict steals from you personaly, it is your personal problem. If an alcoholic piles their car into you, it is your personal problem. If you legalize something harmfull, you bear at least some of the responsibility for the consequences.

As far as addicts, property crime and treatment goes, the only real chance these people have is two years in a federa jail where they will be off drugs and the treatment they need is available. Trouble is the courts don't do that. They give people with dozens of convictions conditional sentences and tell them to attend a meeting once a week. When of course those conditions are breached, they get another conditional sentence. In other words, the courts have written them off just like you.

[Mr.Canada]

I want to hear other peoples opinion on the war on drugs.

Personally i think it's stupid, it's creating more problems then it is solving.

I see so the drug cartels and organized crime should be allowed to ply their trade freely according to you. How noble.

AFAIK "War on Drugs" is an American idea. This is a Canadian forum, please try to be relevant.

Drugs are illegal and will remain so until you lefties get into power then I'm sure you'll legalize crack cocaine and heroin, good luck selling that to the everyday Canadian public.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Mr.Canada