The culture of dishonesty

[Argus]

There was a day when there was a multiplicity of retail outlets owned by a wide variety of business organizations - or, often as not, independant. I remember when you could shop for your groceries at Steinbergs, at Dominion and IGA, at LOEBs and Loblaws, and A&P. There are only two now left. Loblaws and Metro. Everyone else has been bought out or bought up. So when you have only two, they can get together and fix prices, can decide on better ways to screw over their customers, as Loblaws and Metro have done. Prices rise and service plummets, and what choice do you have anyway?

Remember when they supplied you with bags? Yes, it wasn't very long ago. This is a symptom of the "screw the customer" syndrom becoming commonplace among retail conglomerates. They used to have to pay for the bags and give them away. Then some genius came up with an idea: make the public pay for them. What choice do they have anyway? Oh, they've dressed it up as an environmental thing, but that's so much bullshit. If they cared about the environment they'd start using paper bags again.

Yesterday I went into the Source to buy a battery. They're now charging 5 cents per bag too. According to the earnest 12 year old sales girl, they only make 1 cent profit on them! She seemed oblivious to the fact that a 20% profit on an item which doesn't even take up shelf space, and which the retailer used to have to supply for free would add up to big profits. And, like the grocery chains, they've dressed it up as an environmental thing, with cutespie little words like "Earth" and "environment" all over their bags. I mean, just how stupid do these chains think we are?

It's bad enough I'm being screwed over for their profits without them smiling earnestly and telling me that it's actually for helping the planet.

[kimmy]

wait wait, you're saying that businesses sometimes stretch the truth to get more money from people? Let me write this down, it could be valuable to know this later.

My favorite remains all of the excuses the gasoline companies dream up to explain their prices.

The real explanation? They do it because they can.

If you don't want to buy grocery bags, don't by grocery bags. I now have this handy "earth bag" (or something) that I got for free when I bought a bunch of stuff at that Finnish Ikea-wannabe store. I've got a second one that I got when I donated a dollar to summer camps for teenage felons, and a third that I got when I accidentally went to a Canadian Tire on "free earth bag" day. I got 3 "earth bags" for a buck. That pays for itself in 20 trips to the grocery store (or 10, if you double bag, or 5 if you double bag and buy 2 bags of stuff each trip.)

-k

[Michael Hardner]

I think that this is about oligopolies (from Wiki: An oligopoly ((from Ancient Greek ὀλίγοι (oligoi) "few" + πωλειν (polein) "to sell") is a market form in which a market or industry is dominated by a small number of sellers (oligopolists)) and their prevalence in industries with expensive or complicated set-ups.

The best/worst example is likely Bell/Rogers. I end up hopscotching between them for services every few years - usually triggered by an example of awful service, or by an offer of savings by my company's competitor.

[Pliny]

Being very environmentally conscious I have been using the Superstore green bins for the last 15 years so them charging for bags only affects me if I stop in for a few items. I generally don't get a bag but sometimes I need one.

People looking for parking appreciate it too because it only takes a few seconds to load my bins into my vehicle unlike the person who has 20 or 30 bags to pack in their car although if you like to annoy people waiting for your parking spot you can dilly-dally and really piss them off.

I will say in defense of oil companies, Kimmy that it is governments that own 80% of the world's oil. Oil Companies buy it from them. I think the US is the only country hwere government doesn't own it's resources and oil can be owned by private citizens. I don't know if that last statement's true or not but I think it is.

As for the culture of dishonesty. I believe it exists, and it is because corporate policy is determined in the accounting office; as opposed to the old fashioned way of basing it upon service to the customer. When the customer has little choice customer service becomes a secondary consideration.

[M.Dancer]

There are only two now left. Loblaws and Metro.

Depends where you live I suppose. We have Metro, Loblaws, Sobeys, Brunos, Longos and a couple of others including No Frills.

[Sir Bandelot]

I now have this handy "earth bag" (or something) that I got for free when I bought a bunch of stuff at that Finnish Ikea-wannabe store. I've got a second one that I got when I donated a dollar to summer camps for teenage felons, and a third that I got when I accidentally went to a Canadian Tire on "free earth bag" day.

[Sir Bandelot]

they've dressed it up as an environmental thing, but that's so much bullshit. If they cared about the environment they'd start using paper bags again.

Those so called bio-degradeable plastic bags are not even enviro-friendly, they just disintegrate into smaller bits of plastic. In the end, the very same chemicals thats in the plastic still enters the environment. So in the long run, it might be better if they actually didn't disintegrate.

We always used to use them as garbage bags, so now that we hardly get any bags we are looking at buying packs of garbage bags. But the paper ones I saw were about $0.80 each.

[GostHacked]

There was a day when there was a multiplicity of retail outlets owned by a wide variety of business organizations - or, often as not, independant. I remember when you could shop for your groceries at Steinbergs, at Dominion and IGA, at LOEBs and Loblaws, and A&P. There are only two now left. Loblaws and Metro. Everyone else has been bought out or bought up. So when you have only two, they can get together and fix prices, can decide on better ways to screw over their customers, as Loblaws and Metro have done. Prices rise and service plummets, and what choice do you have anyway?

Most of those stores you shop at are owned by one of these two (there are actually 4 in Canada) parent companies.

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4264671-1.html

The top six companies (two national, four regional) control more than 80% of the market. The combined estimated market share of the two major national players–Loblaw Companies Ltd., Toronto, and Sobeys Inc., Stellarton, Nova Scotia–exceeds 50%. Loblaw's estimated 35% of the market (the maximum allowed by Canada's Competition Bureau) is more than that of the top four regional competitors combined: Canada Safeway Ltd. (9%), Metro Inc. (7%), A&P Canada (6%) and Overwaitea Food Group (4%),

The thing is there has always been only a handfull of parent grocery retailers in Canada. Most stores you see out there are owned by one of these few parent companies. For example, under the Loblaws banner you have . RCSS, YIGS, Food Basics and many more and the new T&T Supermarkets.

Remember when they supplied you with bags? Yes, it wasn't very long ago. This is a symptom of the "screw the customer" syndrom becoming commonplace among retail conglomerates. They used to have to pay for the bags and give them away. Then some genius came up with an idea: make the public pay for them. What choice do they have anyway? Oh, they've dressed it up as an environmental thing, but that's so much bullshit. If they cared about the environment they'd start using paper bags again.

They also sell those bags that cost a dollar. I got about 4 of them. I never need those plastic bags anymore. Most of the time I actually refuse to take a bag for just a couple items. I throw it in my backpack.

And a paper bag would cost you more. You can get twice to 3x as many plastic bags for the same volume of paper bags.

[qoute]Yesterday I went into the Source to buy a battery. They're now charging 5 cents per bag too.

Do you really need a bag for one battery? Throw it in your pocket.

It's bad enough I'm being screwed over for their profits without them smiling earnestly and telling me that it's actually for helping the planet.

You have to uinderstand that a grocer retailer when everything goes perfectly, their profit margin sits around 2%. It does not take much to eat up that marginal profit. It takes a crap load of money to get the product from the vendor to your store shelf. I've been in the grocery biz for most of my life in one aspect or another.

You will also have to understand how Wal-Mart changed the mentality of Canadian gorcer retailers and also changed the way they did business. This has a very huge impact as to why things are the way they are today.

When the fuel price rose last year, most retailers were struggling because most could not meat the higher budget to transport items by truck. Once people look at the whole infrastructure of the grocery business, they start to understand the cost of doing business.

It's not cheap!.

[Michael Hardner]

You will also have to understand how Wal-Mart changed the mentality of Canadian gorcer retailers and also changed the way they did business. This has a very huge impact as to why things are the way they are today.

I was wondering why nobody has been mentioning Wal Mart and Costco. My understanding is that many people shop there. Not on this board, though ? And they're not in the 80 percent mentioned below it seems.

[GostHacked]

I was wondering why nobody has been mentioning Wal Mart and Costco. My understanding is that many people shop there. Not on this board, though ? And they're not in the 80 percent mentioned below it seems.

You can get food at both places. Canadian Tire is also getting into the grocery business. All businesses are trying to diversify to have a variety of income. Personally, I think stores are going to get smaller and more focused on certain items. It's a terrible trend to see all this general merchandise in stores and less grocery products. The days of the big box stores are numbered. Within 5 years you are going to see a reverse trend. Smaller, more catered stores. The more variety of things you carry under one roof (like photo developing, eye center, insurance, general merchandise, ect ect ect ect .....the less focused you are on the area you originaly want to be good at in the first place which could be groceries.

Loblaws and Sobeys have gotten into the big box store with a crap load of services and general merchandise. Costco, Walmart are general merchandisers who carry a grocery section. Walmart's prices are far cheaper than anyone elses in the business. How do they do that kind of business and still make a profit? And since it is much cheaper to get it at Walmart, why would people shop at Metro and the like??

Canadian retailers have been dealing with this ever since Walmart came onto the Canadian scene. It's cut throat.

[M.Dancer]

Personally, I think stores are going to get smaller and more focused on certain items.

The trend has been for stores to be more focused but larger. Who buys a TV or a stereo from the Bay anymore? Or for that matter, shoes?

[GostHacked]

The trend has been for stores to be more focused but larger. Who buys a TV or a stereo from the Bay anymore? Or for that matter, shoes?

Yes, but that was the difference between department stores (which are set up like that to begin with) and grocery retailers. I'll buy my TV from the local audio/video shop.

[Oleg Bach]

Here's how it works..If you are aware of how the system truely works they respect you..IF you are naive and believe their lies - they think you are an inferiour and deserve everything you get..the court system is that same way are are most bureacratic intitutions . IF they think you have no teeth they will abuse you _IF they understand that you can embarass them and you have teeth that are sharp - they tend to respect you ...the culture of dishonesty is based on the arrogant Darwinian notion that if someone believes your lies then they are somehow stupid and inferiour.

[Pliny]

...the culture of dishonesty is based on the arrogant Darwinian notion that if someone believes your lies then they are somehow stupid and inferiour.

Why should I believe you?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Here's how it works..If you are aware of how the system truely works they respect you..IF you are naive and believe their lies - they think you are an inferiour and deserve everything you get..the court system is that same way are are most bureacratic intitutions . IF they think you have no teeth they will abuse you _IF they understand that you can embarass them and you have teeth that are sharp - they tend to respect you ...the culture of dishonesty is based on the arrogant Darwinian notion that if someone believes your lies then they are somehow stupid and inferiour.

You clearly don't understand what Darwin did or said.

[bill barilko]

Note- T&T is not in any way new it's a long established independent Chinese grocery concern that was bought up by (I think) Loblaws.

Some excellent deals still BTW.

[GostHacked]

Note- T&T is not in any way new it's a long established independent Chinese grocery concern that was bought up by (I think) Loblaws.

Some excellent deals still BTW.

One just opened up here in Ottawa. I fell off my chair when I heard about the 24 foot sushi bar !!!!!!! HOT DAMN !!!

And you are right, T&T is not new. But new to the loblaws banner. They are very well established in western canada.

Edited November 24, 2009 by GostHacked

[Oleg Bach]

You clearly don't understand what Darwin did or said.

I understand what Darwin and Jesus Christ said - It's perhaps the others that love money and power a bit to much that have warped the ideas of Darwin and Christ - along with Freud and that other fuzzy haired scientist that had his ideas high jacked to create the A-bomb. I can safely say that we have an old powerful buisness elite that allow dishonesty while they practice a supposed honorable enterprise..but when one of their underlings gets caught stealing or plundering indirectly on their behalf they will say this..."It is not my dog" - Look at Conrad Black..perfect example of not taking responsiblity for YOUR do shiting on the floor.

[GostHacked]

I understand what Darwin and Jesus Christ said - It's perhaps the others that love money and power a bit to much that have warped the ideas of Darwin and Christ - along with Freud and that other fuzzy haired scientist that had his ideas high jacked to create the A-bomb. I can safely say that we have an old powerful buisness elite that allow dishonesty while they practice a supposed honorable enterprise..but when one of their underlings gets caught stealing or plundering indirectly on their behalf they will say this..."It is not my dog" - Look at Conrad Black..perfect example of not taking responsiblity for YOUR do shiting on the floor.

Once in a while it is good to get OFF the meds.

[Oleg Bach]

Once in a while it is good to get OFF the meds.

When I was introduced to the web by my kids and started typing away, I noticed that the typical mindless retort that was used always infered "meds" It seems that YOU are more experieced in this area than I. Personally I don't believe in mind altering or mind controling chemical compounds - as I sit here there are no "meds" in my system..Let me explain _ I have been a creative and independent person all my life and I have the right not to be altered by your so called "meds" YOU can continue taking that crap if you wish...If I decide to alter myself it will be my call .......I am very aware of the poor application of medical meds - street "meds" and alcohol...recreational use is best left to the kids...I actually perfere a straight state of mind - good food - a woman - a nice nap - and maybe a drink on occassion....HOW DO YOU THINK I LASTED THIS LONG? AND why I am a free thinker - because I don't like being controled.

[GostHacked]

When I was introduced to the web by my kids and started typing away, I noticed that the typical mindless retort that was used always infered "meds" It seems that YOU are more experieced in this area than I. Personally I don't believe in mind altering or mind controling chemical compounds - as I sit here there are no "meds" in my system..Let me explain _ I have been a creative and independent person all my life and I have the right not to be altered by your so called "meds" YOU can continue taking that crap if you wish...If I decide to alter myself it will be my call .......I am very aware of the poor application of medical meds - street "meds" and alcohol...recreational use is best left to the kids...I actually perfere a straight state of mind - good food - a woman - a nice nap - and maybe a drink on occassion....HOW DO YOU THINK I LASTED THIS LONG? AND why I am a free thinker - because I don't like being controled.

You have 'jumped the shark'.

[Shwa]

As for the culture of dishonesty. I believe it exists, and it is because corporate policy is determined in the accounting office; as opposed to the old fashioned way of basing it upon service to the customer. When the customer has little choice customer service becomes a secondary consideration.

Yep I see the same thing. And sadly the federal government is going this way too. Now we have social policy designed by MBA's who are more interested in their personal increase than they are in services to the public. And there is a trickle down effect to front line staff as well. Pretty soon the federal bureaucracy will resemble the Bell/Rogers 'gotchya!' model.

[Shwa]

...the culture of dishonesty is based on the arrogant Darwinian notion that if someone believes your lies then they are somehow stupid and inferiour.

Oleg, what do you mean by this? Could you explain please?

[Sir Bandelot]

We claim that we are against monopolies, yet say nothing when corporations merge into mega-corporations, essentially turning them into monopolies...

[M.Dancer]

We claim that we are against monopolies, yet say nothing when corporations merge into mega-corporations, essentially turning them into monopolies...

You clearly don't understand the definition of monopoly.