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There is a step in the right direct Oleg. Changing the way we think of ourselves. We literally can be all that we want to be.

One must know what one wants first. Personally I have found that to be true...but individuals and nations fear the responsibility of success and authorship of their own lives and the life of a nation...Walk and talk like a king and you will be king..but it is lonely at the top..and unbearable at the bottom..best to be lonely than in poverty and persecution..we can not allow further disrespect of our nation- we are now offically of age..It is our time.

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One must know what one wants first. Personally I have found that to be true...but individuals and nations fear the responsibility of success and authorship of their own lives and the life of a nation...Walk and talk like a king and you will be king..but it is lonely at the top..and unbearable at the bottom..best to be lonely than in poverty and persecution..we can not allow further disrespect of our nation- we are now offically of age..It is our time.

This nation has underused industrial capacity, and it has abundant resources. We have what we need to succeed.

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This nation has underused industrial capacity, and it has abundant resources. We have what we need to succeed.

There is a line...The leaf will be for the healing of the nations. Industry is not the oil sands - industry is the mindset of the person and the nation. As you mentioned with robotics etc. it is getting cleaner to produce what we really need and what others need also. Belief is powerful as is the human mind...it is probably time that we use are best and stop settling for the corporate half and compliant best- I know how the system works...what we need is to show our power brokers how not to fear the creative and intelligent. That is to educate the very educated..that is a hard job seeing that blind pride infects them...good night my friend and the best to you and yours...thank you.

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I agree with both of you.

But how will we change when most people are blinded by ignorance.

Money, profit, greed and power is what drives our society.

Governments have become nothing more then public corporations, they care more about dollar signs then the people they serve.

For our society to ever change, we must stop living in fear and start living threw love, for if we were living threw love, we would not be doing what we are doing now.

I agree, beliefs are important and right now we need something true and pure to believe in.

I believe it is nearing the time where we need to rise up and the people take the power back.

This system of debt and credit is ludicrous.

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I am fine playing my part in causing misery for others. Do I like the "misery" part? No, but I will not be guilted into cowering. Someone, please prove I'm causing misery.

Guilted into cowering ? How could you feel guilty about your own positions on these things, unless you haven't thought them through.

I get the feeling, though, that you're looking for proof that you're not causing misery rather than looking at the evidence as it lies. Right now, you've got almost unanimous opinions amongst the scientists that humans are causing warming. Riverwind, for one, is considering the option to adapt rather than reduce Carbon. What do you think of that ?

The other posters on the board? Who cares? They will either agree, disagree, complain, report, bitch, moan or make self-righteous statements (as you tend to). I won't lose a moment's sleep over it. You post as though I should actually care. This is a political board where pretty much everyone is anonymous, so why would yours or anyone else's opinion give me any cause to change my attitude?

How can you accuse me of making self-righteous statements when you jump in on this thread and say "who cares ?". You said it yourself. If I point out that you said it, you can't say I'm self righteous - you came right out and said you don't care - those are your words.

If you don't care about other opinions, then buy yourself a radio transmitter and get to it. The board is for discussion, which is two-way communication by definition.

Does the honesty of my post piss you off or just shock you because you would never dream of being that blatant? I work for my money, and I am entitled to spend it however the fuck I see fit. I am entitled to my entitlements. Thanks Jean.

As long as you don't try to point to other people and expect them to do any better than the poor, poor job you're admitting to doing.

If somebody dings your car, or craps on your lawn then don't complain. It's just another Hydra passing through your neighbourhood saying "who cares". The a**hole who cuts you off in traffic, the d**k who parks in handicapped - that's you. You're one of them, so when somebody at a party tells a story about a jerk who did something, you just keep quiet.

Do I let both my trucks run even if I don't intend to drive them? Sometimes. My company truck sits on the road in front of my house because my boat with the two-stroke motor sits on one half of my driveway (you should see THAT son-of-a-bitch smoke when it's started!!) and I can't plug it in. If I don't let it run for a while every couple of days while I'm on vacation, I have to boost it. Sorry, but suck it up.

I live in the richest province in Canada...Alberta. I probably (?) work more hours in a week than a hell of a lot of people work in a month. I have had to be away from my family for weeks at a time for my job. Am I complaining? No, but I make more money than most and that EARNS me the right to spend it. Incidentally, I also give more to our local version of Santas Anonymous every year than most families SPEND on Christmas every year. I'm not looking for an "atta boy" or any other reaction for that matter, but understand that CURRENTLY, the Alberta oil patch pays for me to pay for that. If you don't like the "tar sands", I don't fucking care. It supplies my family with a very comfortable life. Good enough for me.

Hmmm... why are you telling me about your Santas Anonymous (do you know what Anonymous means, by the way ?) contributions if you don't care what I think ?

You're clearly making a case for yourself, and yet you're trying to tell me that you don't care. I can only say - that's a pretty screwed-up viewpoint. Do you care or not ?

I think you need to go away and decide how you feel about your behavior, because you seem to be arguing from both sides of the fence.

You seem to be fairly intelligent. Would you like to PM me your resume and I'll see if I know anyone that has an opening for a "self-righteous, left wing, over judgemental, enviromentally-concerned, quasi-political blogger? Shell or BP might be looking. Let me know.

I didn't come charging on this thread putting myself out there and saying 'who cares'. You did that, so eat it up. Pay more attention to what you write, because if you're not sure how these boards work - you are held to it.

For the record, I don't know if I'm more environmentally concerned, or a better citizen than you or anything like that. But I do take care in what I post, as I happen to take my own opinions seriously.

If you don't take your own words seriously, then fine. Just say so, and we can be on our way.

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Who cares how you would respond....it's no big deal. "Who cares" implies a general ambivalence, not agreement.

But in this case, I most certainly agree with "his" post....gotta go plug in my block heater.

Ok, so your stance is now "Who cares what Hardner would say, or what Hydraboss would say...

Except that we're spending our time on a web board, doing nothing but posting our opinions so that takes the feet out from under that point, doesn't it ?

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Ok, so your stance is now "Who cares what Hardner would say, or what Hydraboss would say...

Except that we're spending our time on a web board, doing nothing but posting our opinions so that takes the feet out from under that point, doesn't it ?

b_c have a look at the top posters here. You're #3 at:

12,852 posts.

I'm #22, although I have been here longer than any of the regular posters.

That's close to 20,000 posts between us.

Do you care what people post ? Do I ? It seems that we do.

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:lol: (and an extra one for Argus ..... :lol: )

You don't have to put anything additional into your posts to convince me you're an egragiously ignorant blowhard.

ya wyly, I should have known - I had a previous long-running 'encounter' with this wannabe over an IT related topic... same pattern to the point where he finally realizes his folly is laid bare and reverts to shuckin-n-jivin deflections rather than just slinking away quietly.

Danth's Law invoked.

Edited by Argus
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You don't have to put anything additional into your posts to convince me you're an egragiously ignorant blowhard.

Danth's Law invoked.

Perfect Law for those clowns. I used to watch sesame street with my children and there were two crabby old muppets that used to sit up in the balcony of a theatre.....they were always mumbling and complaining - just detestable old coots. I used to think they were Harold Ballard and King Clancy.....but they might have been Waldo and Wyly. What a couple of ignorant, arrogant greenhouse gasbags. The sad part is that with the right attitude, they might be able to contribute something to the discussion. Let's hope they both find a good woman (separately) so they can learn to think of someone other than themselves.

Edited by Keepitsimple
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b_c have a look at the top posters here. You're #3 at:

12,852 posts.

Do I win a cupie doll?

I'm #22, although I have been here longer than any of the regular posters.

Apparently you don't have as much leisure time available at work.

That's close to 20,000 posts between us.

Or any other combination of members.

Do you care what people post ? Do I ? It seems that we do.

Again...speak for yourself. Can you do that?

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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Perfect Law for those clowns. I used to watch sesame street with my children and there were two crabby old muppets that used to sit up in the balcony of a theatre.....they were always mumbling and complaining - just detestable old coots. I used to think they were Harold Ballard and King Clancy.....but they might have been Waldo and Wyly. What a couple of ignorant, arrogant greenhouse gasbags. The sad part is that with the right attitude, they might be able to contribute something to the discussion. Let's hope they both find a good woman (separately) so they can learn to think of someone other than themselves.

if you only had an education instead of Riverwind's blog reports you too could be enlightened...

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lots of conspiracy talk, no end of denier blog sites, but actual verifiable evidence? nada... :rolleyes:

Your side can't even produce the orginal data they used to come to their conclusions. Isn't their a few from the Hadley CRU being changed for not compling with a a British Freedom of information act? Isn't most climate modeling based on their work?

No one has yet been able to verify their data, since its been destroyed but yet you believe it with religous fervour.

Edited by Alta4ever
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Guilted into cowering ? How could you feel guilty about your own positions on these things, unless you haven't thought them through.

I get the feeling, though, that you're looking for proof that you're not causing misery rather than looking at the evidence as it lies. Right now, you've got almost unanimous opinions amongst the scientists that humans are causing warming. Riverwind, for one, is considering the option to adapt rather than reduce Carbon. What do you think of that ?

How can you accuse me of making self-righteous statements when you jump in on this thread and say "who cares ?". You said it yourself. If I point out that you said it, you can't say I'm self righteous - you came right out and said you don't care - those are your words.

If you don't care about other opinions, then buy yourself a radio transmitter and get to it. The board is for discussion, which is two-way communication by definition.

As long as you don't try to point to other people and expect them to do any better than the poor, poor job you're admitting to doing.

If somebody dings your car, or craps on your lawn then don't complain. It's just another Hydra passing through your neighbourhood saying "who cares". The a**hole who cuts you off in traffic, the d**k who parks in handicapped - that's you. You're one of them, so when somebody at a party tells a story about a jerk who did something, you just keep quiet.

Hmmm... why are you telling me about your Santas Anonymous (do you know what Anonymous means, by the way ?) contributions if you don't care what I think ?

You're clearly making a case for yourself, and yet you're trying to tell me that you don't care. I can only say - that's a pretty screwed-up viewpoint. Do you care or not ?

I think you need to go away and decide how you feel about your behavior, because you seem to be arguing from both sides of the fence.

I didn't come charging on this thread putting myself out there and saying 'who cares'. You did that, so eat it up. Pay more attention to what you write, because if you're not sure how these boards work - you are held to it.

For the record, I don't know if I'm more environmentally concerned, or a better citizen than you or anything like that. But I do take care in what I post, as I happen to take my own opinions seriously.

If you don't take your own words seriously, then fine. Just say so, and we can be on our way.

HERE I COME CHARGING IN! Go to the core of your being and review the videos of the delegates that attended this conference and ask yourself....are these people caring about anything other than being seen heard and admired by their peers and the public? I viewed one to many sets of eyes that were pure haughtiness...people that are so shallow that they can not and will never grasp the scope of this catostrophic episode in human history about to happen..they are all in dream land..eating a nice lunch and arriving by limo..and phoning home to say "look mum - I am important what a success I be" - They were all a bunch of flakes..it would have been better to take the protestors outside and give them the seats of the delegates..let the delegates protest from the streets--but I guess that would be called a revolution...the delegates said one important thing to the world...Let them eat cake.

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Politics and planetary stewardship are not a laughing matter. If I had the power - I would have sat and culled the delegational herd - every person that smiled or was having a good time should have been sent home packing... no one is taking this seriously. How the hell did it get to the point were conditioned and freakish acedemics who are human and indirectly bribable get into this position of authorship?

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How the hell did it get to the point were conditioned and freakish acedemics who are human and indirectly bribable get into this position of authorship?

?? Um...do you have an alternative to "humans" who might be able to provide authorship?

Perhaps Christ could deign to come down from his Throne and settle the matter once and for all?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is the CO2 that determines the climate change?

Then, why there can be a 30 year global cooling although CO2 level is still increasing?

It looks like that "scientics" love to say what politicians need.

IPCC scientist: Global cooling headed our way for the next 30 years?

The cold this December and January has been noteworthy and newsworthy. We just posted that
. Beijing was hit by its heaviest snowfall in 60 years, and
. Plus
.

The cold is setting records too.

Oranges are freezing and
, there are
and
as well as Europe.

There are signs everywhere, according to an article in the
, which produced this

Latif, is a professor at the Leibniz Institute at Germany’s Kiel University and an author of the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report. Latif is a prominent scientist in the UN’s IPCC climate research group.

Latif thinks the cold snap Americans, Brits, and Europeans have been suffering through is the beginning of another cycle, this one a down cycle. He says we’re in for 30 years of cooler temperatures. While maybe it is a harsh prediction, he calls it a “mini ice age”. That phrase is sure to stick in the craw of more than a few people. His theory is based on an analysis of natural oscillations in water temperatures in the oceans.

According to his He believes our current cold weather pattern is a pause, a “30-years-long blip”, in the larger cycle of global warming, which postulates that temperatures will rise rapidly over the coming years.

By the way:

In March 2000, Dr David Viner, then a member of the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit, the body now being investigated over the notorious ‘Warmergate’ leaked emails, said that

Edited by bjre
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Simple already tried to continue the misquoting/misrepresenting of Mojib Latif... here. Or you could actually bother to attempt to make yourself current with this latest Latif response... here.

Leading climate scientist challenges Mail on Sunday's use of his research

Mojib Latif denies his research supports theory that current cold weather undermines scientific consensus on global warming

A leading scientist has hit out at misleading newspaper reports that linked his research to claims that the current cold weather undermines the scientific case for manmade global warming.

Mojib Latif, a climate expert at the Leibniz Institute at Kiel University in Germany, said he "cannot understand" reports that used his research to question the scientific consensus on climate change.

He told the Guardian: "It comes as a surprise to me that people would try to use my statements to try to dispute the nature of global warming. I believe in manmade global warming.

The reports attempted to link the Arctic weather that has enveloped the UK with research published by Latif's team in the journal Nature in 2008. The research said that natural fluctuations in ocean temperature could have a bigger impact on global temperature than expected. In particular, the study concluded that cooling in the oceans could offset global warming, with the average temperature over the decades 2000-2010 and 2005-2015 predicted to be no higher than the average for 1994-2004. Despite clarifications from the scientists at the time, who stressed that the research did not challenge the predicted long-term warming trend, the study was widely misreported as signalling a switch from global warming to global cooling.

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Simple already tried to continue the misquoting/misrepresenting of Mojib Latif... here. Or you could actually bother to attempt to make yourself current with this latest Latif response... here.

Waldo.....what can I say.....even your supplied article's "clarification" stated the following:

The research said that natural fluctuations in ocean temperature could have a bigger impact on global temperature than expected. In particular, the study concluded that cooling in the oceans could offset global warming, with the average temperature over the decades 2000-2010 and 2005-2015 predicted to be no higher than the average for 1994-2004.

That is completely at odds with the "models". I don't know why they chose the decade 1994-2004 for comparison....but he's clearly stating that using that decade to compare with, there is, at best, NO WARMING from 2000 to 2015. THE MODELS DID NOT PREDICT THIS. IPCC DID NOT PREDICT THIS. YOU WALDO, HAVE REPEATEDLY REFUSED TO ACCEPT IT.

Edited by Keepitsimple
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Waldo.....what can I say.....even your supplied article's "clarification" stated the following:

That is completely at odds with the "models". I don't know why they chose the decade 1994-2004 for comparison....but he's clearly stating that using that decade to compare with, there is, at best, NO WARMING from 2000 to 2015. THE MODELS DID NOT PREDICT THIS. IPCC DID NOT PREDICT THIS. YOU WALDO, HAVE REPEATEDLY REFUSED TO ACCEPT IT.

Simple ton, what are you shouting about? Per norm, you haven’t a clue what you link to or speak about… the referenced article that I linked to presents Latif’s response that counters the latest false presentation/interpretation of his 2008 study. You continue your desperation in clinging to something… anything… that you presume supports your continued preposterous claims about global cooling.

You continue to spin wildly, one day chastising models and their worth… the next day pinning your latest nonsense on model/comparisons. This 2008 Latif study suggests minimal warming for 10 years, followed by substantial warming… more pointedly, the global analysis is effectively a minor aspect of the study, secondary to the regional results/predictions (particularly the North Atlantic). Hey now! Did you happen to catch the name of the study… “Advancing decadal-scale climate prediction in the North Atlantic sector

And, oh my… it speaks to this radical climate model concept that short interval periods may present natural variability mitigating forced response… so radical it’s the expected norm – just like the real world! But really, c’mon Simple ton… when dealing with such a short timescale, how unusual might it be that a forecast prediction might result in natural variability obscuring the warming signal? Duh! Wait… Simple ton, is your understanding that current ‘traditional’ models will actually present accurate short-term projections?

This Latif work is but one study – a study that in itself, is one of a few recent efforts attempting to make/present short-term climate prediction… it’s a study working to a complete new modeling methodology – one that doesn’t exist in current ‘traditional’ longer-term climate models. Tell me… do you now feel just a tad silly for all your bold font uppercase shouting – hey, Simple ton? :lol:

In any case, strictly from a methodology aspect, the Latif paper appears to be taking on criticism… on the other hand, this Smith et al paper, which pre-dated the Latif study, has been recognized as the so-called reference 'benchmark' in this new focus towards attempting to model shorter-term predictions.

Improved Surface Temperature Prediction for the Coming Decade from a Global Climate Model

Previous climate model projections of climate change accounted for external forcing from natural and anthropogenic sources but did not attempt to predict internally generated natural variability. We present a new modeling system that predicts both internal variability and externally forced changes and hence forecasts surface temperature with substantially improved skill throughout a decade, both globally and in many regions. Our system predicts that internal variability will partially offset the anthropogenic global warming signal for the next few years. However, climate will continue to warm, with at least half of the years after 2009 predicted to exceed the warmest year currently on record.

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