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Tories to crack down on parole for non-violent offenders


jdobbin

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There will be a budget before a shovel hits the ground. But one can't know the cost until several things have been decided. Like where to build, how big to build, etc.

Which will be how many years after the legislation already starts seeing numbers built up in prisons already crowded?

This is a recipe for more escapes from murderers that we have already seeing in a few provinces under the Tories.

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Certainly the public will think differently if it escalates wildly in costs. They will only think about how it hits them in the pocketbook and what else might have been done with the money.

Yeah, those public safety billions could be spent on something important, like a Wayne and Schuster retrospective on CBC.

This prison building scheme is all part of Harpers neocon secret agenda. The entire NDP membership will be sent to special camps for re-education. He may also finally sent some of the Liberals involved in Adscam to jail. That alone would have them bursting at the seams.

But one can't know the cost until several things have been decided. Like where to build, how big to build, etc.
can you imagine the fighting over federal prison locations? Lots of jobs in jails with little local infrastucrure money or environmental hassles.
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This prison building scheme is all part of Harpers neocon secret agenda. The entire NDP membership will be sent to special camps for re-education. He may also finally sent some of the Liberals involved in Adscam to jail. That alone would have them bursting at the seams.

There is nothing secret about Harper spending like crazy since 2006. We are going to see deficits for some time under Harper since he can't control himself.

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Which led to the report that came out a few weeks later that showed that overcrowded conditions existed in every jail in Manitoba.

Sounds like a provincially created problem. You guys gotta learn to take care of your own backyard. Especially seeing as though Manitoba recieves billions of dollars in aid from the rest of us.

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Sounds like a provincially created problem. You guys gotta learn to take care of your own backyard. Especially seeing as though Manitoba recieves billions of dollars in aid from the rest of us.

The laws filling the prisons are federal, not provincial.

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The laws filling the prisons are federal, not provincial.

Maybe when the Liberals get back in we can fill some of the new empty jail cells with people caught owning unregistrered long guns? I really think we should enact a law that allows warrantless searches of homes to check for guns too. Start by checking all Alberta rednecks, then check every house where someone has had a hunting liscence, or has visited a fishing/hunting website, or has a subscription to outdoorsman magazines. I say if these douchebags want to crack down on cannabis users and keep them in jail even longer then turnabout should be considered fair play. How about mandatory sentences for being drunk in a public place? And we will decide what constitutes drunk AND public.

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Which led to the report that came out a few weeks later that showed that overcrowded conditions existed in every jail in Manitoba and was leading to troubles across the board.

It is hard to come to any other conclusion that the system is creaking under the pressure now and escapes, riots and other issues are going to come up even more.

Not sure what your point is. All you seem to be saying is that if we did nothing, Manitoba badly needs more prison capacity. And if they need to build some new prisons anyway, then it's cheaper to plan them with a few more cells. If you don't want to fix Manitoba's problem by building or updating their prisons, are you saying we should let prisoners out even earlier?

Edited by Keepitsimple
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Sooner or later the Supreme Court will have to address the question of whether living in Manitoba is by itself a cruel and unuusual punishment, with or without the prison walls.

Sooner or later I'm sure someone will kick you in the balls. It's just a guess on my part but probably an accurate one.

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Not sure what your point is. All you seem to be saying is that if we did nothing, Manitoba badly needs more prison capacity. And if they need to build some new prisons anyway, then it's cheaper to plan them with a few more cells. If you don't want to fix Manitoba's problem by building or updating their prisons, are you saying we should let prisoners out even earlier?

I think my point is that Manitoba as well as other problems have a problem already and will have an even bigger problem with the Tory changes.

I keep asking to hear the financials on all this but I don't hear any details yet. I suspect much higher deficits.

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The laws filling the prisons are federal, not provincial.

Hmmm, seems to me I read that the premiers - all of them - lobbied Ottawa to end the 2 for 1 law that the judges invented.

Tha doesn't sound to me like they're too worried about the costs of their prison systems.

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Hmmm, seems to me I read that the premiers - all of them - lobbied Ottawa to end the 2 for 1 law that the judges invented.

Tha doesn't sound to me like they're too worried about the costs of their prison systems.

This is because it transfers people from provincial jails to the federal jails because of sentences larger than 2 years.

Other changes the Feds make though clog the provincial side of jails.

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Difference is we NEED prisons.

We DON'T need a long-gun registry.

We have gone over this before. The police say the registry is something they want and need.

I haven't said we don't need to work on prisons. I am asking for a costing out of it. Still haven't seen it.

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I disagree with your premise. You're jumping to conclusions because you don't like the very idea of cracking down on parole for non-violent offenders. Just because legislation is proposed, doesn't mean it takes effect right away. Like I've already said. I'm sure the Conservative government will take into consideration the expected costs much more than the Liberal's did with their 2 billion-dollar suppose tobe 2 million-dollar gun registry.

Interesting you bring up the gun registry, now who was it that was going to scrap the gun registry? Who was it that rather than scrapping it has instead kept it going for 2 years and waived the fees? So now it doesn't even offset any of the costs to keep it running. Now it's a complete drain on the federal purse. Yes which government was that? The very same government you have complete and utter faith will do all the costing beforehand yet heretofore has done anything but.

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Interesting you bring up the gun registry, now who was it that was going to scrap the gun registry? Who was it that rather than scrapping it has instead kept it going for 2 years and waived the fees? So now it doesn't even offset any of the costs to keep it running. Now it's a complete drain on the federal purse. Yes which government was that? The very same government you have complete and utter faith will do all the costing beforehand yet heretofore has done anything but.

Not sure you're being quite fair, Dave. My understanding is that a minority government CAN'T scrap the registry! That's why Harper chose to 'starve' it instead.

You can't bitch at a man with no legs 'cuz he didn't dance!

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Not sure you're being quite fair, Dave. My understanding is that a minority government CAN'T scrap the registry! That's why Harper chose to 'starve' it instead.

You can't bitch at a man with no legs 'cuz he didn't dance!

That's open to interpretation I suppose. I perceive as Harper trying to pander to two diametrically opposed groups. Keeping it panders to those who wanted it in the first place and he doesn't get the back lash of getting rid of a program many perceive as in the best interest of public safety. By keeping it but waiving the fees he's pandering to those who feel it's a tax grab by eliminating the fee. Sure they still have to go through the formalities but hey it's free no big deal.

I think the excuse that the CPC's are in a minority and bereft of any amount of clout is running rather thin. We both know Mr. Harper will find a way if he wants to; even if he has to act like a Liberal to get it done.

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That's open to interpretation I suppose. I perceive as Harper trying to pander to two diametrically opposed groups. Keeping it panders to those who wanted it in the first place and he doesn't get the back lash of getting rid of a program many perceive as in the best interest of public safety. By keeping it but waiving the fees he's pandering to those who feel it's a tax grab by eliminating the fee. Sure they still have to go through the formalities but hey it's free no big deal.

I think the excuse that the CPC's are in a minority and bereft of any amount of clout is running rather thin. We both know Mr. Harper will find a way if he wants to; even if he has to act like a Liberal to get it done.

Well, that's where we differ, I guess. You seem to take the position that a PM can do whatever he wants, it's just a matter of having the will. That means you are always justified in blaming him, I guess. I don't share that view. Parliament works in a certain legal framework and I believe that some things are possible and some aren't. A Prime Minister does not have unlimited power, thank heavens!

That's why I didn't blame Bob Rae for having to deal with a recession when he was premier of Ontario. I just blame him for the bone-headed things he did to try to cope with it!

As for the backlash of actually scrapping the registry, I don't really believe that there would be a significant one. Hard core Liberals who would never vote Tory anyway might NOT vote Tory TWICE but who cares? The real question is which way would the "swing vote" go? My observation is that anywhere but Toronto and Montreal no one really believes the gun registry was a positive thing anyway. If they had of added even ONE day to the mandatory sentence for illegal use of a firearm there might have been more credibility! Most people are aware that criminals don't register guns and that they seem to have no problem obtaining them.

If Harper is as smart as he appears I would expect that if he obtains a majority not only would he scrap the gun registry but he would also promise a respectable amount of the wasted money to go for more prisons and longer sentences. Maybe a few more policemen on the streets as well. THAT would seem a good trade to a lot of folks! He would be taking away something ineffective that he can blame on his opponents and giving something at least perceived as TRULY effective for which he can take ALL the credit!

You probably disagree but it really doesn't matter what you and I think. It matters how most voters think. We "ordinary" joes can be as partisan and illogical as we want but if we were campaign managers we would fail our parties miserably! You need to be objective - to clearly see the real world. The game is to attract enough voters to get in power FIRST! Otherwise we can't do a damn thing! Here in Hamilton I hear NDP candidates every campaign making promises as to what they will do for us. It's all a joke, of course. To be fair, most of them set up a good staff at their offices to help any constituent with his EI claim or any such paperwork matter but as far as getting some real MONEY to the riding they are reduced to begging for crumbs from the ruling party. Money talks and BS walks.

Edited by Wild Bill
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The Tories like to crack down on any one spirited that could possibly prove in the future to be a competator..these colonialist used to run the court system years ago - I remember they would approach young men within the confines of some small town court house and say "Plead guilty kid, they will go easier on you" _ Translated that would mean - Let the status quo crimminalize you and make you a social and finacial dysfunctional for life. Imagine how many thousands of young people were branded with crimminal records who can never run for public office ? To crack down on parole for non-violent offenders is Draconian in scope and typical of a colonialist mentality.

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Most people are aware that criminals don't register guns and that they seem to have no problem obtaining them.

That's right, most police are not that worried about the guns criminals use. My nephew is in the RCMP and he uses the registry every single time he responds to reports of alcohol-fuelled domestic-violence. These represent about half of the calls he gets.

In ten years he has yet to respond to a single call involving the types of criminals the Conservatives are freaking everyone out about.

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Interesting you bring up the gun registry, now who was it that was going to scrap the gun registry? Who was it that rather than scrapping it has instead kept it going for 2 years and waived the fees? So now it doesn't even offset any of the costs to keep it running. Now it's a complete drain on the federal purse. Yes which government was that? The very same government you have complete and utter faith will do all the costing beforehand yet heretofore has done anything but.

LOL, you're trying to blame Harper for the gun registry? It was a Liberal party idea, implemented by the Liberal paty. Next thing I'll hear is that Harper's also to blame for the Liberal sponsorship scandal. :rolleyes:

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Especially seeing as though Manitoba recieves billions of dollars in aid from the rest of us.

It must be terribly embarassing to be so smug and self-righteous about equalization when you don't even know that your own province also now receives billions in equalization. :lol:

http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp#Ontario

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