Women in Somalia forced by hardliners to shake their breasts

[Guest TrueMetis]

I am not surprised!.............those people will never learn, 100 hundred years from now

they will still live like cavemen...they just can t seem to progress forward.

I've heard Animal Rights advocates say the same thing about people from Nova Scotia.

[kimmy]

I've heard Animal Rights advocates say the same thing about people from Nova Scotia.

If you're hoping to draw an equivalency between women and harp seals, I think you're somewhat misguided.

-k

[Guest TrueMetis]

If you're hoping to draw an equivalency between women and harp seals, I think you're somewhat misguided.

-k

Not at all just saying that the same thing is said about people from Nova Scotia and only a fool would say they can't progress.

[kimmy]

As you speak up against everything your government does wrong? As you speak up against collateral death? As you speak up against all that's wrong in the world? Seems to me I recall your saying you have no need to speak up since others are. Perhaps they all feel the same way.

Well, Kimmy is not locked in a world-wide public-relations struggle.

And third-world knuckleheads are not going about performing ridiculous acts in Kimmy's name. (as far as I'm aware, anyway. If they are, I wish they would stop.)

It's in their own interest to speak out. I would think that these people using Islam to justify what they're doing would be pretty offensive to more enlightened Muslims. And I would think that more enlightened Muslims would want to say something about it, like "hey, you guys are embarrassing Islam!"

If I was a Canadian Muslim, I would want somebody from my community to speak out against this. I would want my own community to speak out about this and to distance my community from these filthy hobos.

You might be right in saying that the extremists don't care what moderates think about them, but at least the Muslims can make it clear that these *are* extremists. That would be an important message for Muslims to send, because there is a lot of skepticism and uncertainty. I think they should make it clear that the kooks are isolated even among Muslims, because right now that's not clear.

-k

[naomiglover]

I just did a google search and came up with this:

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&...106722b7fae5837

So it looks like many Muslims do speak out against terrorism and other crimes. American Woman is correct to say that those with extremist religious views are not going to listen to or care for what the moderates have to say. Whether you are Muslim, Christian or Jewish.

[wulf42]

Not at all just saying that the same thing is said about people from Nova Scotia and only a fool would say they can't progress.

Their actions speak for themselves...............they are still living in the stones ages

and haven t progressed much! if you went back in time say a hundred or so years

they are still at the same level.....these people will never change! violence and acting

like savages is their way of life ...it will stay that way for eternity likely.We should just leave

them be and let them do whatever they want to themselves! Until they learn to stop

having civil wars and get rid of their warlords...they will stay the way they are!! They

don t even having a running Government just mob rules!

BTW-i travel all throughout Canada funny i never once heard that comment about N.S.

but feel free to make it up..

Edited October 22, 2009 by wulf42

[Guest American Woman]

Well, Kimmy is not locked in a world-wide public-relations struggle.

Well, whether Kimmy realizes it or not, her country is involved in a Jihad. Her country is not looked on well by those issuing the Jihad. Yet I don't see Kimmy speaking out against the wrongs the West has done.

And third-world knuckleheads are not going about performing ridiculous acts in Kimmy's name. (as far as I'm aware, anyway. If they are, I wish they would stop.)

Kimmy's country is fighting a war in Kimmy's name; a war that's causing "collateral damage," which is one of the things "third-world knuckleheads" are claiming to be angry about.

It's in their own interest to speak out.

By the same token, it's in your best interest to speak out.

I would think that these people using Islam to justify what they're doing would be pretty offensive to more enlightened Muslims. And I would think that more enlightened Muslims would want to say something about it, like "hey, you guys are embarrassing Islam!"

If I was a Canadian Muslim, I would want somebody from my community to speak out against this. I would want my own community to speak out about this and to distance my community from these filthy hobos.

So it would take your being a Muslim in order to believe you have an obligation to speak out. Got'cha.

You might be right in saying that the extremists don't care what moderates think about them, but at least the Muslims can make it clear that these *are* extremists.

I think that's already quite clear to most intelligent people. And if it's not clear, if they don't realize it, I'm guessing they aren't going to take the word of other Muslims. In fact, I've seen the reaction to Muslims who've attempted to say that Islam is a religion of peace. It's not as if people say, 'that's good to know. thank you for speaking up.' The reaction I've seen is people arguing, quoting the Koran, insisting that it isn't; that Islam is a violent religion that calls for/condones violence.

Last but not least, as I've already pointed out, Moderate Muslims are also at the mercy of the extremists. That's what this very thread is about. Have you read the article? Read what's happening to the moderate Muslims who are speaking out against what's happening to them there? Seems to me an intelligent person could conclude that Islam isn't the problem when the "ridiculous acts" being performed are against other Muslims.

That would be an important message for Muslims to send, because there is a lot of skepticism and uncertainty. I think they should make it clear that the kooks are isolated even among Muslims, because right now that's not clear.

And I think their attempt to 'make things clearer' would fall on deaf ears. We have our own share of kooks that even think Obama is a terrorist. You think another Muslim saying otherwise, that theirs is a peaceful religion, is going to make a difference?

But perhaps they just all have the 'I don't have to speak out, there are other people to do it, so why should I?' mentality that Kimmy does.

[eyeball]

So you think Canada does a lot of trade with Somalia?

I think we'd have to stop trading with countries that trade with them to have any real lasting effect.

What is it about this sentence that you're unable to comprehend?

Lets see if this helps, I think we'd have to stop trading and with countries that are diddling with Somalia and the surrounding region.

[M.Dancer]

What is it about this sentence that you're unable to comprehend?

Lets see if this helps, I think we'd have to stop trading and with countries that are diddling with Somalia and the surrounding region.

Okay, let me put it this way, you think Somalia does a lot of trade?

...most of Somalia's imports are from piracy.

[naomiglover]

Exports: $79 million f.o.b. (2002 est.) according to CIA

~$265 million according to IMF [35]

Exports - commodities: livestock, bananas, hides, fish, charcoal, scrap metal

Exports - partners: UAE 37.2%, Yemen 22.3%, Oman 10.1%, China 6%, Kuwait 4.4%, Nigeria 4% (2003)

Imports: $344 million f.o.b. (2002 est.)

Imports - commodities: manufactures, petroleum products, foodstuffs, construction materials, khat

Imports - partners: Djibouti 33.9%, Kenya 15.5%, Brazil 6.6%, UAE 5.1%, Thailand 4.2% (2003)

- Wikipedia

[Argus]

I've heard Animal Rights advocates say the same thing about people from Nova Scotia.

Most zealous animal rights advocates are clinging to sanity by a very, very tiny thread. And that includes virtually all of those so worried about the seal hunt.

[Argus]

Not at all just saying that the same thing is said about people from Nova Scotia and only a fool would say they can't progress.

Only fools would be worried about the seal hunt in the atlantic. Therefore, only fools would make such a statement about Nova Scotia. Therefore, we don't really need to concern ourselves with their opinions.

[wulf42]

Only fools would be worried about the seal hunt in the atlantic. Therefore, only fools would make such a statement about Nova Scotia. Therefore, we don't really need to concern ourselves with their opinions.

Thank you Argus.....couldn t have said it better!!!!

[wulf42]

Only fools would be worried about the seal hunt in the atlantic. Therefore, only fools would make such a statement about Nova Scotia. Therefore, we don't really need to concern ourselves with their opinions.

Thank you Argus.....couldn t have said it better!!!!

[eyeball]

Okay, let me put it this way, you think Somalia does a lot of trade?

No but they sure get diddled with a lot.

...most of Somalia's imports are from piracy.

Most are also from diddlers...arms dealers and such whose countries we should be suspending trade with.

[M.Dancer]

No but they sure get diddled with a lot.

Most are also from diddlers...arms dealers and such whose countries we should be suspending trade with.

Okay, please provide a list of governments that sell arms to Somalia

Shouldn't take long...It will be a short list

[DogOnPorch]

Okay, please provide a list of governments that sell arms to Somalia

Shouldn't take long...It will be a short list

Eyeball provide evidence? Cool. Can't wait.

[eyeball]

This article makes it pretty clear that arms from several nations including allies of ours, are being sold in Somalia.

Despite a U.N. arms embargo on Somalia, the Horn of Africa nation is awash with weaponry from all over the world that has fueled one of Africa's longest-running conflicts.

Here's another article.

The report, by the UN monitoring group on the Somali arms embargo, says Ethiopia, Eritrea and Yemen are also breaking the embargo.

You gotta love this one...North Korea sells arms to Ethiopia with U.S. OK...WTF is that all about?

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Bush administration allowed Ethiopia to complete a secret arms purchase from North Korea in an apparent violation of a U.N. Security Council sanctions resolution passed months earlier over its nuclear test, The New York Times reported in Sunday editions.

Story

This article says it all though doesn't it?

US is top purveyor on weapons sales list, Shipments grow to unstable areas

"The US would be significantly affected if there was an arms treaty that took into account human rights abuses and conflict areas," added William Hartung , director of the Arms Trade Resource Center at the World Policy Institute in New York. "The US government still wants to be able to do covert and semi-covert arms transfers. And a certain amount of it is simply keeping factories running in certain congressional districts."

Story

Here's another link...I could probably go on like this for days...

To be fair to the US though I'm sure a lot of other countries military-industrial complexes would likewise suffer without never-ending war and conflict to fuel their greed.

I imagine they'd suffer a lot more too if Ottawa refused to sell our oil to anyone who ships arms around the world with nary a concern for where they end up.

Lest we forget what I said before you try to put words in my mouth... I think we'd have to stop trading with countries that trade with Somalia to have any real lasting effect. Kapeesh? I know you do but...I guess the only thing marginally better than a diddler is a quibbler and you just love to quibble don't you?

[lictor616]

Most zealous animal rights advocates are clinging to sanity by a very, very tiny thread. And that includes virtually all of those so worried about the seal hunt.

quite true.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Their actions speak for themselves...............they are still living in the stones ages

and haven t progressed much! if you went back in time say a hundred or so years

they are still at the same level.....these people will never change! violence and acting

like savages is their way of life ...it will stay that way for eternity likely.We should just leave

them be and let them do whatever they want to themselves! Until they learn to stop

having civil wars and get rid of their warlords...they will stay the way they are!! They

don t even having a running Government just mob rules!

BTW-i travel all throughout Canada funny i never once heard that comment about N.S.

but feel free to make it up..

Compared to now people in Canda 60-100 years ago were savages, Funny how things change.

Never said it was from inside Canada said it was from animal rights wackjobs a lot of them have there HQ in the U.S. but operate here (mostly against the seal hunt).

[wulf42]

Compared to now people in Canda 60-100 years ago were savages, Funny how things change.

Never said it was from inside Canada said it was from animal rights wackjobs a lot of them have there HQ in the U.S. but operate here (mostly against the seal hunt).

what is it with you and the Seal Hunt thing..........???

give it a rest or start a new thread!

[kimmy]

Well, whether Kimmy realizes it or not, her country is involved in a Jihad. Her country is not looked on well by those issuing the Jihad. Yet I don't see Kimmy speaking out against the wrongs the West has done.

Kimmy's country is fighting a war in Kimmy's name; a war that's causing "collateral damage," which is one of the things "third-world knuckleheads" are claiming to be angry about.

Question posed was "what should we in the west do about this situation?"

And my answer remains: nothing.

I certainly do speak up when my government does something I disagree with. A wide number of threads on a wide number of topics during my time here are evidence of that. And if the Jihadis are perusing my opinions on this forum and are unhappy with the lack of condemnation of Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, or the lack of condemnation of Canadian troops when civilians have been harmed in Afghanistan, they can draw their own conclusions about how I feel about those subjects.

And when moderate Muslims decline the opportunity to speak out against wacko-Islamists, people draw conclusions as well.

By the same token, it's in your best interest to speak out.

I have little concern as to whether the Muslim world likes me. I couldn't care less, in fact.

However, Muslims living in western countries tell us that they're very concerned about how they're viewed by the rest of us.

So it would take your being a Muslim in order to believe you have an obligation to speak out.

I comment on the idiocy of fundamentalists (of all religions) all the time. But I can't speak on behalf of Muslims.

Got'cha.

Mrs Palin?!

I think that's already quite clear to most intelligent people. And if it's not clear, if they don't realize it, I'm guessing they aren't going to take the word of other Muslims. In fact, I've seen the reaction to Muslims who've attempted to say that Islam is a religion of peace. It's not as if people say, 'that's good to know. thank you for speaking up.' The reaction I've seen is people arguing, quoting the Koran, insisting that it isn't; that Islam is a violent religion that calls for/condones violence.

I'm not talking about Muslims attempting to defend/justify/excuse their faith to the rest of us. I'm talking about Muslims confronting Muslim extremism.

In Canada we have Tarek Fatah and Irshad Manji doing that. Why aren't there more?

Last but not least, as I've already pointed out, Moderate Muslims are also at the mercy of the extremists. That's what this very thread is about. Have you read the article? Read what's happening to the moderate Muslims who are speaking out against what's happening to them there? Seems to me an intelligent person could conclude that Islam isn't the problem when the "ridiculous acts" being performed are against other Muslims.

That's like arguing that the Inquisition wasn't a Christian problem because most of the victims were Christians.

If some fringe kooks are doing stuff in the name of the faith, it's a problem for the faith.

And I think their attempt to 'make things clearer' would fall on deaf ears. We have our own share of kooks that even think Obama is a terrorist. You think another Muslim saying otherwise, that theirs is a peaceful religion, is going to make a difference?

Again, I'm not talking about having some Muslim clerics tell *us* that their religion is peaceful and that this nonsense is not part of Islam. I'm talking about Muslim clearings telling *the thugs* that their religion is peaceful and that this nonsense is not part of Islam.

I do think that if religious leaders denounced this activity, it could make a difference. It might not make any difference to the extremists themselves, but everybody else might be less accepting of this behavior if it was made clear that this *isn't* part of Islam.

But perhaps they just all have the 'I don't have to speak out, there are other people to do it, so why should I?' mentality that Kimmy does.

You seem to have such a keen memory for things I say, so you'll remember that the other part of that was that I'm passionate about standing up for myself because nobody else is going to do it for me. Muslims will have to figure out how to deal with this on their own, because the west isn't going back to Somalia any time soon. The west can't even keep Somalis from pirating ships at sea, let alone police the streets of Mogadishu.

The Muslim world, if they care about their brothers and sisters in Somalia, can try to do something to help-- speak out, apply moral pressure, issue religious decrees, maybe something else. Or, I guess, they can chose not to.

If we in the west were to involve ourselves in every situation that offends our sensibilities, well, in order of priorities, I don' t think that the Somali Bra And Beard Police rank in the top 50.

-k

[Guest TrueMetis]

what is it with you and the Seal Hunt thing..........???

give it a rest or start a new thread!

It's known as replying, something you have trouble with apparently.

Edited October 23, 2009 by TrueMetis

[wulf42]

It's known as replying, something you have trouble with apparently.

Well maybe it's just me but i really don t see the connection to Somalia and Seal Hunting

which by the way many are opposed to here in NS as well..............but hey fill your boots

if you think you can draw a comparison between the brutality in Somalia and Seal Hunting

in Canada....

[kimmy]

Well maybe it's just me but i really don t see the connection to Somalia and Seal Hunting

which by the way many are opposed to here in NS as well..............but hey fill your boots

if you think you can draw a comparison between the brutality in Somalia and Seal Hunting

in Canada....

Nova Scotians beat seals, and Somalis beat women, so it's practically the same thing.

-k