Ottawa knew of torture

Topaz · October 16, 2009

I came across this article from the New York Times and bookmarked it about a year ago, and it may help this topic. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/world/am...agewanted=print

Shady · October 16, 2009

Now, are you still with your bastard Karzai and the Canadian bastards that looked the other way when he locked up the prisoners of war we captured and tortured them?

There's a huge difference between locking up and torturing people for political speech opposing a government, and locking up and interrogating a terrorist who wants to kill little girls. Evidently it'll take a lot more than $10 to teach you that.

Dave_ON · October 16, 2009

Jesus, talk about a one-trick pony!

Pot have you met the kettle?

eyeball · October 16, 2009

An e-mail I received a while ago, pretty much sums up how I feel too.
Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper. This is

one ticked off lady.

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured

by a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in

a brutal insurgency.

If the justice systems and nations these people came from were our allies then yes, this is definitely something you should care about, deeply.

In fact, you should be extremely ticked-off, because somebody on our side clearly put us in harm's way.

eyeball · October 16, 2009

There's a huge difference between locking up and torturing people for political speech opposing a government, and locking up and interrogating a terrorist who wants to kill little girls. Evidently it'll take a lot more than $10 to teach you that.

Obviously there's a huge difference between interrogation and torture. No amount of money will get me to buy into your idea there isn't.

noahbody · October 16, 2009

Obviously there's a huge difference between interrogation and torture.

These days, if you don't tuck a prisoner in at night, it's considered torture.

eyeball · October 16, 2009

These days, if you don't tuck a prisoner in at night, it's considered torture.

No, if you don't electrocute their testicles and tear their nails out, its considered coddling.

M.Dancer · October 16, 2009

It seems to me, that if any of the allegations by the murders and terorists are true, any torture that may have been done was done by the agents of a sovereign nation, one where western values regarding torture are not shared. (although the values regarding torture are mutually shared between both the Afghans Agents and the terrorists).

It would also seem to me that we would be meddling into the internal affairs of a sovereign nation if we tried to stop them, and as I have learned from Eyeball, we should never meddle in another countries internal affairs.

So I whole heartedly side with eyeball on this, once we turn over the terrorists to the sovereign government of Afghanistan, what happens to them is none of our business.

DogOnPorch · October 16, 2009

It seems to me, that if any of the allegations by the murders and terorists are true, any torture that may have been done was done by the agents of a sovereign nation, one where western values regarding torture are not shared. (although the values regarding torture are mutually shared between both the Afghans Agents and the terrorists).
It would also seem to me that we would be meddling into the internal affairs of a sovereign nation if we tried to stop them, and as I have learned from Eyeball, we should never meddle in another countries internal affairs.

So I whole heartedly side with eyeball on this, once we turn over the terrorists to the sovereign government of Afghanistan, what happens to them is none of our business.

Hah, hah...well done.

:lol: :lol:

eyeball · October 16, 2009

once we turn over the terrorists to the sovereign government of Afghanistan, what happens to them is none of our business.

That's probably what you folks said when our friends like the Shah, Saddam or the House of Saud were applying electricty to people's genitals and ripping their nails out. With friends like these who needs...no wait a minute...with people like you constantly apologizing for these who needs to go abroad to fight terrorists?

DogOnPorch · October 16, 2009

These days, if you don't tuck a prisoner in at night, it's considered torture.

What the article fails to mention is that just as often as not, captured Taliban given to the ANA are released much to the chagrin of the troops involved in the capture.

ANA Officer: My brother knows these men...they are good men...no Taliban...no Taliban.
USMC Sgt: WTF??

Edited October 16, 2009 by DogOnPorch

M.Dancer · October 16, 2009

That's probably what you folks said when our friends like the Shah, Saddam or the House of Saud were applying electricty to people's genitals and ripping their nails out. With friends like these who needs...no wait a minute...with people like you constantly apologizing for these who needs to go abroad to fight terrorists?

Are you now saying it's okay to meddle in the internal affiars of other nations?

DogOnPorch · October 16, 2009

Are you now saying it's okay to meddle in the internal affiars of other nations?

That indeed appears to be what he's saying.

eyeball · October 16, 2009

Are you now saying it's okay to meddle in the internal affiars of other nations?

In your mind maybe, but no, you're not even close.

If you and your poodle are any indication I'd say we've got more than enough meddlesome people right here at home to keep us occupied for years.

M.Dancer · October 16, 2009

In your mind maybe, but no, you're not even close.

So then your stance is it is not okay to meddle and that we should not interfere in what happens to the prisoners?

eyeball · October 16, 2009

So then your stance is it is not okay to meddle and that we should not interfere in what happens to the prisoners?

In your mind, my stance is whatever you want it to be Morris, I have no control over that. Neither do you apparently.

DogOnPorch · October 16, 2009

So now you're not sayin'...lol. What? Did they pull out you finger nails to keep you quiet?

:lol: :lol:

Dave_ON · October 16, 2009

Agreed... as to the reason we fight them. No question about it, we must fight extremism because it is a threat to us.
This is not so much why we fight, but how we fight. I generally oppose torture, but if you've got some little bastard who knows something, or who killed a bunch of people and won't talk, you wont see too much sympathy from me if they are executed.

But I would be concerned if they had the wrong person, and thought that they knew something and tortured/ killed them. So we need to have some provisions to safeguards against that possible error. There has to be reasonable evidence. Maybe approval from an outside authority, and reasonable limits to what can be done. There has to be constant monitoring, so that people are not abused or forgotten about. Otherwise we might end up back in the spanish inquisition.

That is preciesly the probelm. Because you can never be certain of anything why risk torturing and killing the wrong person? What recompense will be made when the mistake is discovered. Would you submit to torture and death yourself if it were found that you tortured and killed someone who was wrongfully accused? In for a penny in for a pound, that would be the only way to ensure that those who are doing the deed are kept in check.

I don't think anyone really wants to go there, as has been mentioned we shouldn't beomce them to stop them.

M.Dancer · October 16, 2009

In your mind, my stance is whatever you want it to be Morris, I have no control over that. Neither do you apparently.

SO, basically you're saying that you have an inconsistent value system and it is indefensible.

or....?

Shady · October 16, 2009

SO, basically you're saying that you have an inconsistent value system and it is indefensible.
or....?

That's exactly what he's saying? You led him down the path of logic, and his circuits fried! :lol:

wulf42 · October 16, 2009

Damn straight! If torturing some of those bags of crap prevents even just one girl from having acid thrown in their face for simply walking to school, then so be it.

Right.........we won't win this war playing by rules or being nice!!

the Geneva convention certainly does not apply to these animals!

to defeat terrorist's we need to use what the military call black op's

which basically means doing whatever it takes to destroy the enemy! War is

a bad thing but if you make the decision to go then you should also make the decision

to win!

Shady · October 16, 2009

Right.........we won't win this war playing by rules or being nice!!

Exactly. During WWII, Nazi's were in many cases treated very poorly, interrogated, even tortured. But we were still the good guys, and there was no disputing that.

wulf42 · October 16, 2009

Exactly. During WWII, Nazi's were in many cases treated very poorly, interrogated, even tortured. But we were still the good guys, and there was no disputing that.

Many don't yet see the danger of the rising Islamic extremist threat....

they just shrug it off and laugh but what is happening in Pakistan and Afghanistan

can and will happen here! i have no problem having our country or any other western country

torture these animals and extract whatever they can out of them to help track and kill other

terrorist's!! Al Qaeda are every bit a threat even worse

than the Nazi's and your right our country had no problem offing SS criminals or Nazi spies.

Our country has become soft since the end of WW2 ,Canada has become complacent and we have

resigned our military Force to peace Keeping and crowd control...now we are in an actual war

and some Canadians are screaming "hey we shouldn t be doing this or that" well i say to them

what the heck do you think our armed Forces are for??? they are to protect Canadians from threats

and Islamo radicle's are certainly a threat here in Canada and overseas and now we are in a war on

terror that will last for years but it needs to be done until the last Taliban and Al Qaeda has breathed

it's last breath.

Edited October 16, 2009 by wulf42

wulf42 · October 16, 2009

Its not about whether these people deserve to be tortured or not, its about trusting our own government to operate in a transparent manner, and respect its own laws. If Canada is going to be involved in torture and torture is justified then lets have a national discussion about that, and do whatever we are gonna do in the open.
I dont buy the idea of giving any government a free pass simply because they invoke national security. Only a sycophant would be swayed by that fallacious argument.

:lol: ....Our Government doesn t need to do squat concerning how we treat these animals!

Imagine if in WW2 we discussed every military operation and debated it before we did anything...the war

would have been over before we lifted a finger...........military decisions are best left to the military!!

Canadians don t need the details of what we do to the enemy terrorist's...that is our military's job

so let them do it! In ww2 the Alllies tortured and shot many Nazi spies ...public didn t know and the

public didn t care as long as we win the war in the end, nothing has changed!

Edited October 16, 2009 by wulf42

GostHacked · October 16, 2009

Many don't don t yet see the danger of the rising Islamic extremist threat....
they just shrug it off and laugh but what is happening in Pakistan and Afghanistan

Some of us have seen the problem with Pakistan long before you people even realized there was a problem with Afghanistan. It's only now some of you are taking notice about the crap hole that IS Pakistan.