Time to cut down immigration?

[Argus]

This testing you speak of... I'm afraid that it wouldn't achieve your goal of reducing whatever type of immigrant you want it to as many of them have degrees from somewhere, many of them are qualified to do things, and many of them speak English well enough to work here.

What does a degree matter? Lots of people with degrees take these tests. We know they have degrees and for the most part, are not overly impressed by them. These tests are behavioural, designed to see how well applicants are likely to fit in and work with others.

Furthermore, the open secret about immigration is that they want anybody with a pulse to come here.

Who is this "We" you speak of. I certainly don't want everyone with a pulse here. I have not seen any economic support for the belief we must take in the present number of immigrants. No one, for the most part, even attempts to support that argument. Some simply state it as if it's clear and obvious and needs no support. But I have read papers which quite categorically state otherwise - such as the one I posted earlier.

I don't think I have ever denied that, but the motivations for doing so appear to me to be purely economic

.

In what sense? Give me a specific economic argument supported by fact.

I will quote from the introduction of Martin Collacott's paper.

The federal government justifies large-scale immigration on the basis that it is essential to economic growth as well as to offset the aging of the population and the increasing proportion of retired persons to workers. These rationales, however, are not based on facts. The government's own research indicates that immigration and population increases play a role at best in economic growth. It is equally clear that only overwhelming levels of immigration would have any significant effect on reducing the aging of the population and avoiding higher dependency ratios and that there are much more practical ways of dealing with these issues than through immiration. Similarly, the government's claim that we require immigration in order to cope with an anticipated shortage of skilled workers is of questionable validity.

It's not because immigrants vote Liberal, or the Conservatives would have cut immigration.

The Conservatives don't dare cut immigration. Their achilles heel as far as being considered a respectable, mainstream political party, is accusations of bigotry/racism. The Liberals and NDP spent a lot of years cultivating and encouraging that, and would eagerly jump in with accusations of same if they saw the Conservatives cutting or shifting immigration to any large degree. And Harper likes power too much to risk that. So instead, the Conservatives are playing the Liberal game - cultivating ethnic representatives, funnelng money to them to help make them more respectable within their communities, and keeping immigration wide so as to appeal to immigrant/ethnic groups.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Argus

[Griz]

The solution is to ship all the whiners back to Europe. Snot dripping from noses and all! That'll take care of the immigrant problem and we don't have to listen to big tough grown men whine like little kids anymore

The statement was in the same mentality as that which preceded it, which you apparently had no problem with.

And surely you'll be the biggest whiner jumping up and down, snot driping and all, on the boat as they deliver you back to Europe OOPPSS sorry didn't mean to call you Surely

[Griz]

[Any right-winger is racist and a bigot with dollar signs bugging out of eyeballs. I often wonder what the glue is that holds people like this together. It must be slime

[Guest TrueMetis]

The statement was in the same mentality as that which preceded it, which you apparently had no problem with.

Griz isn't worth my time.

[Argus]

And surely you'll be the biggest whiner jumping up and down, snot driping and all, on the boat as they deliver you back to Europe OOPPSS sorry didn't mean to call you Surely

And surely you'll be one of those indians vainly checking his mailbox for his government cheque, consternation all over your face as your bulbous red nose signals the need for more beer.

[Argus]

Griz isn't worth my time.

You know what? For the first time, I think I will agree with you on something. I think he can join the 2 others on my small ignore list so I will stop being tempted to respond in kind to his crap.

[Griz]

Im not indian--Im use to be a dumb redneck but now I am transformed into a decent human

And surely you'll be one of those indians vainly checking his mailbox for his government cheque, consternation all over your face as your bulbous red nose signals the need for more beer.

[DogOnPorch]

Bah...we're just like the Romans...just not as long-lived. The Patrician class...eager to keep their standard of living high(er)...conducts economic warfare on the middle-class Plebs and Suburra until they're broke and homeless. Next we'll be letting any Gaul or Visigoth into the Republic to keep...in theory...adding to the retirement coffers of the wealthy who will actually have the luxury of retirement to the country-villas of the 21st century.

Hah...you laugh now...but we'll see how many are laughing when the whole crap-hole gets sacked by the barbarians of our age.

[ToadBrother]

Bah...we're just like the Romans...just not as long-lived. The Patrician class...eager to keep their standard of living high(er)...conducts economic warfare on the middle-class Plebs and Suburra until they're broke and homeless. Next we'll be letting any Gaul or Visigoth into the Republic to keep...in theory...adding to the retirement coffers of the wealthy who will actually have the luxury of retirement to the country-villas of the 21st century.

Hah...you laugh now...but we'll see how many are laughing when the whole crap-hole gets sacked by the barbarians of our age.

Um, your kind of mixing two eras of Rome, separated by about four or five centuries.

[DogOnPorch]

Um, your kind of mixing two eras of Rome, separated by about four or five centuries.

I think things move a tad faster in these modern times than in ancient Rome.

[Machjo]

It's a little late now to cut back on immigration. We should have done that a few centuries ago.

[Smallc]

It's a little late now to cut back on immigration. We should have done that a few centuries ago.

Because....you say so?

[DogOnPorch]

It's a little late now to cut back on immigration. We should have done that a few centuries ago.

So no Canada, etc? You see...the difference to me is that my grandparents and their parents were homesteaders. That is they had to cut Canada out of the rough...making it strong...making it rich. A group of FOBs sitting in T-dot getting benefits isn't the same as what they went through.

[Machjo]

So no Canada, etc? You see...the difference to me is that my grandparents and their parents were homesteaders. That is they had to cut Canada out of the rough...making it strong...making it rich. A group of FOBs sitting in T-dot getting benefits isn't the same as what they went through.

I'm not sure what an FOB is, but if you're referring to the First Nations, FYI there were no government beneifts for First Nations back then, and it's not up to you to decide that because I choose to not build a big strip mall on my land that you thus have a right to confiscate it. Maybe I'd just need the time to do it.

Had we left the First nations alone, they'd likely be quite advanced today, trading with England and France as equals rather than becoming England and France.

[DogOnPorch]

FOB = Fresh Off the Boat.

[Machjo]

Because....you say so?

So what are you proposing, that we ship people back? Yes, I'd asy it's a little late for that. People who are born here have a right to be here.

[DogOnPorch]

In case you missed it...

[Smallc]

So what are you proposing, that we ship people back? Yes, I'd asy it's a little late for that. People who are born here have a right to be here.

I think I may have misunderstood you. I don't think that we should make people leave at all. I also don't think we should risk our future by severely limiting immigration, though I'm sure there's always improvements that can be made.

[Machjo]

In case you missed it...

Thanks. Well, I guess 400 years ain't exactly FOB now is it. Then again, FOB does certainly taste better than the rotten stuff that's been in the fridge for awhile.

[Machjo]

I think I may have misunderstood you. I don't think that we should make people leave at all. I also don't think we should risk our future by severely limiting immigration, though I'm sure there's always improvements that can be made.

Fair enough. I admit I ws being a little tongue in cheek in the last few posts just to make a point, that to close our borders off to immigration now that we're here is a little disingenuous to say the least.

I also believe that considering that the First Nations have little to no space for the development of their own languages and cultures even on their own soil, which has been considerably Europeanized, I think it's only fair that their languages be granted some kind of official status within our education system. After all, when in Rome, right?

[DogOnPorch]

Well my family came to Canada from the US in the 1850s to the 1870s. Some remained behind in America. Not 400 years...but plenty long for Canada. I frankly resent being told by today's society that my family's efforts regarding Canada are no better than someone collecting benefits after arriving in Canada on a Boeing 767 last Tuesday.

[Topaz]

The Tories under Minsiter Kenney are sending back more people than in 1990's or ever. I'm not sure if this is good or bad but I do remember seeing a couple from Central America who came here illegally but both had jobs and supporting themselves and had two children born here but this government sent them home. What is wrong with a couple like this , who aren't terrorist but fled their country because of the unrest. What couldn't the government give them Canadian citizenship and make it illegal? http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1012?hub=Canada

[Thomas Kwon]

The Tories under Minsiter Kenney are sending back more people than in 1990's or ever. I'm not sure if this is good or bad but I do remember seeing a couple from Central America who came here illegally but both had jobs and supporting themselves and had two children born here but this government sent them home. What is wrong with a couple like this , who aren't terrorist but fled their country because of the unrest. What couldn't the government give them Canadian citizenship and make it illegal? http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1012?hub=Canada

They couldn't apply for refugee status like everyone else? somehow they are more special than other people?

[Argus]

Had we left the First nations alone, they'd likely be quite advanced today, trading with England and France as equals rather than becoming England and France.

Preposterous nonsense. Had we left them alone they would still be living in mud huts and hide tents, freezing in the dark and dying young while worshipping the sun god.

There are certain elements required for the development and sustenance of a real and lasting civilization which were not present in pre-Columbus America. One of those elements is a proper labour assisting animal. Another is a proper food animal which can be domesticated. Those were not present in the Americas. Without them, people had to work hard, all day, every day, just to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. That sort of society leaves precious little time for dreamers, no time for experimenters, no time to develop sciences and technology. Every hand must work all the time. That is why no advances of any sort were made in America. The natives of the seventeenth century lived the same as they did in the tenth century, the same as they did in the sixth century, the same as they did in all the years prior to that.

[Argus]

I think I may have misunderstood you. I don't think that we should make people leave at all. I also don't think we should risk our future by severely limiting immigration, though I'm sure there's always improvements that can be made.

What evidence do you have that limiting immigration will negatively impact our future?

What evidence do you have that large scale immigration will positively impact our future?

Or is evidence really even a requirement for you?