Ignatieff is about to be dumped by his party.

[Mr.Canada]

Ignatieff and his dreadful running or should I say ruining of the Liberal brand is finally starting to come to a head. Most of the Liberal grassroots hate this man and despise the fact that he was crowned leader of the Liberal Party forgoing any input at all from the grassroots Liberal party membership. He crowned himself after claiming to be a champion of human rights and democracy.

With the Liberals in Quebec at 26% and the Tories at 21% in Quebec one has to wonder how many seats the Liberals will lose in that province in the coming election. The Tories are poised to hang on to all of their 10 Quebec seats but with the Liberal Quebec numbers as low as they were with Dion it's reasonable to assume that the Liberals will drop even further in Quebec and actually lose seats in that province. They won't lose them to the Tories either but to the NDP which has seen a steady rise in Quebec as of late.

Ignatieff is completely out of touch with his grassroots. His arrogance is playing badly everywhere except in Toronto, home of the latte Liberal. Do the Liberals really expect Igantieffs arrogance to play well in Atlantic Canada with it's down home and down to Earth lifestyle? I find that hard to believe. One need to look no further then to his coronation as leader without any consultation or input from the grassroots. The man is completely out of touch.

The NDP is poised to take over as the official opposition in this posters mind with the Liberals ready to take over third place and relative obscurity. The NDP is already gaining ground in Quebec and in Atlantic Canada so how far behind to figure BC is? The NDP will replace the Liberal seats in BC imo in the next election. T

The Liberals will be reduced to parts of Toronto and parts of Montreal for the most part(no pun). The Tories are poised to gain a foothold in Toronto and will likely gain seats in the 416 as well as increase their take in the 905. The downtown core of Toronto will remain a Liberal stronghold however. The parts of Montreal that don't go Liberal will be replaced with the NDP orange.

As for PM Harper, well he has to thank Ignatieff for leading him and the Conservatives to a majority in the next election. Thanks Iggy!

[punked]

Ignatieff and his dreadful running or should I say ruining of the Liberal brand is finally starting to come to a head. Most of the Liberal grassroots hate this man and despise the fact that he was crowned leader of the Liberal Party forgoing any input at all from the grassroots Liberal party membership. He crowned himself after claiming to be a champion of human rights and democracy.

With the Liberals in Quebec at 26% and the Tories at 21% in Quebec one has to wonder how many seats the Liberals will lose in that province in the coming election. The Tories are poised to hang on to all of their 10 Quebec seats but with the Liberal Quebec numbers as low as they were with Dion it's reasonable to assume that the Liberals will drop even further in Quebec and actually lose seats in that province. They won't lose them to the Tories either but to the NDP which has seen a steady rise in Quebec as of late.

Ignatieff is completely out of touch with his grassroots. His arrogance is playing badly everywhere except in Toronto, home of the latte Liberal. Do the Liberals really expect Igantieffs arrogance to play well in Atlantic Canada with it's down home and down to Earth lifestyle? I find that hard to believe. One need to look no further then to his coronation as leader without any consultation or input from the grassroots. The man is completely out of touch.

The NDP is poised to take over as the official opposition in this posters mind with the Liberals ready to take over third place and relative obscurity. The NDP is already gaining ground in Quebec and in Atlantic Canada so how far behind to figure BC is? The NDP will replace the Liberal seats in BC imo in the next election. T

The Liberals will be reduced to parts of Toronto and parts of Montreal for the most part(no pun). The Tories are poised to gain a foothold in Toronto and will likely gain seats in the 416 as well as increase their take in the 905. The downtown core of Toronto will remain a Liberal stronghold however. The parts of Montreal that don't go Liberal will be replaced with the NDP orange.

As for PM Harper, well he has to thank Ignatieff for leading him and the Conservatives to a majority in the next election. Thanks Iggy!

BC is already an NDP strong hold we beat the Liberals last election. We need higher numbers in Ontario or for the Conservatives to have higher numbers in some places and Liberal lower ones. It can happen though that is for sure.

[Mr.Canada]

BC is already an NDP strong hold we beat the Liberals last election. We need higher numbers in Ontario or for the Conservatives to have higher numbers in some places and Liberal lower ones. It can happen though that is for sure.

You dippers are going to gain seats from the Liberals in BC I'd imagine, perhaps in Quebec and Atlantic Canada too. I wouldn't be surprised for the NDP to have 40-50 seats after the next election. Last year I thought it impossible when you guys were talking about it but nowadays it seems very plausible.

At this moment in time Layton looks very strong next to Ignatieff who is looking weaker by the moment. I think the trick for the NDP will be to have more mass appeal and to not come across as so far left in some of their policies. If they can appeal to a broader base of the centre left they could very well usurp the Liberals as the Official Opposition, imho.

[kimmy]

BC is already an NDP strong hold we beat the Liberals last election.

er, I think you mean that urban Vancouver is an NDP stronghold.

I am personally kind of at a loss as to how things seem to be working out so badly for Ignatieff. He's the first Liberal leader in my lifetime that I've actually been willing to consider supporting. I mean, I was interested in Paul Martin for a while, until he actually became Prime Minister and we all had to witness what a spineless failure he turned out to be, failing to live up to any of the noble talk that I found appealing in the first place. Now along comes Ignatieff with what seems like a solid centrist alternative for Canadians who don't want radical goofy governmentalism but aren't sold on Harper. To me it seems like the sort of thing mainstream Canadian voters have been wanting for a long time. And yet it doesn't seem to be working at all. I'm kind of perplexed.

Just read this editorial this morning, claiming that Chretien is still stirring up trouble behind the scenes, trying to boost the careers of his former allies, at the cost of undermining Ignatieff's authority. Perhaps this is part of what's going wrong for Ignatieff.

-k

[Mr.Canada]

Good link kimmy, thank you. I to thought that Ignatieff was going to do some good to clean up that party as well, everyone was so optimistic and giddy about him. He's turned out to be real dud. I suspect some of it isn't his fault due to inner turmoil that was present before he arrived back in Canada after 36 years out of it but he'll be wearing the egg on his face after the next election. For the record I don't think the next leader will do any better. They need to totally rebuild that party and have so far refused to do that.

[Mr.Canada]

[ba1614]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Mr. C.

Those of us who kept the Libs in their Majority Governments left them in '04 and '06 hoping they would get the message and clean house. Well, they obviously are too obtuse, or arrogant, to see what we want, and continue to play the games that turned people off. The libs strong suit has always been the ability to connect with both the center-left and center-right voters. They are not listening to this segment of voters and continue to play their games that only matter to their die-hard base that will vote for them regardless.

Iggy has turned into a complete failure at motivating those he needs to, and he looks like a complete tool every time he opens his mouth. I haven't heard nothing from him but critisisim of others.

Bob Rae also has to go, the people in Ontario remember him well and many don't want anything to do with anything he's involved with. He's likely the one to blame for the current round of failing games they're playing.

I too can see a Majority for the Conservatives because the center-right see Harper as less scary than the current crop of Libs, and the NDP getting, or at least awful close, to official opposition status because many center-left aren't buying what he's selling either.

Now I know the die-hard Libs will discount, and maybe even ridicule this opinion of a center-right poster, but therein lies a main reason why they are floundering like a ship lost at sea, and why they are really struggling to get the votes back they lost in '04 and '06, they won't listen to the voters.

[capricorn]

“The Quebec team is you. But I’m the leader,” he warned party faithful.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/200...4/11296286.html

It's well and good to be the leader. The trick is to be in charge. The fact he has to remind his team that he's the boss is telling.

[Oleg Bach]

It's about arrogance...Ignatieff and the present status quo go heavey on the credential thing...on formal education and that someone with a pile of degrees is educated..Iggy is NOT an educated man - he is a processed man. AND processed food will not nourish the people..Yes they will dump him because he is un-educated...and needs proper training...But the status quo being what it is will never admit that their educational system does not create leaders..it creates trolls..same old same old crap...My mother once said about acedemics and politicos..."They pour water from one glass and then back into the other..and no one ever gets to drink".

[myata]

Now along comes Ignatieff with what seems like a solid centrist alternative for Canadians who don't want radical goofy governmentalism but aren't sold on Harper. To me it seems like the sort of thing mainstream Canadian voters have been wanting for a long time. And yet it doesn't seem to be working at all. I'm kind of perplexed.

The problem for Ignatieff is that he's been defined (by himself, or Harper, I think more of the former), as a softer, more intelligent, more centrist Harper.

Really. Is there any one major issue in where Ignatieff stood up with something drastically different than Harper's?

Let's see:

1) Afghanistan

2) Economy action

3) Employment insurance

and even democratic coalition. Who cares about little conditions and qualifications he tried to stick in, and Harper accepted, laughingly, who'd care about those or even remember them? In everybody's mind Ignatieff is mixed up in anything Harper does, except in the name.

So, here we go. Ignatieff is supposed to be "our" Harper. The problem is, it wouldn't get him any extra votes from Harpers' folks (why would they want a quasi una Harper, when there's a real one?), but it'll certainly lose him quite a bit from those who wouldn't have anything to do with Harper in any form.

I'm really not sure how he would get out of this now. Maybe if everything's changed and forgetten, in another year? But wouldn't he look extremely opposite of smart (and loose all credibility, whatsoever), if NDP took him on his word, and he'd bow out? I dunno. I don't see much hope neither for the guy, nor the Liberal brand, in the near future.

Why did it play out this way? Maybe, the Liberals were way too concerned with what new face they'd put on the party, rather than democratic renewal, defining party's vision and principles?

[madmax]

I'm really not sure how he would get out of this now. Maybe if everything's changed and forgetten, in another year? But wouldn't he look extremely opposite of smart (and loose all credibility, whatsoever), if NDP took him on his word, and he'd bow out? I dunno. I don't see much hope neither for the guy, nor the Liberal brand, in the near future.

Why did it play out this way? Maybe, the Liberals were way too concerned with what new face they'd put on the party, rather than democratic renewal, defining party's vision and principles?

Pretty strong words coming from you and proving to be accurate none the less.

[Mr.Canada]

It comes down to experience I think. Harper is a polished, seasoned and cagey politician. It's very difficult to nail Harper down on anything he knows how to maneuver away from situations very well and direct it back at the instigator. Love him or hate him the guy is good at the political game.

Whereas Ignatieff just doesn't have the political experience to tangle with someone like Harper who is always on the attack at all times. Ignatieff surely has the book smarts to be a leader but he lacks the experience. he should have waited instead of jumping right into a leadership role. His caucus must have known he was goingto fail. Seriously 3 years in politics doesn't equate enough time needed to learn what one needs to know to lead a party and in turn a country.

Harper has been in politics his entire adult life and learned from one of the best in Preston Manning. Say what you like about Preston the man was a damned fine politician.

TL;DR = Ignatieff is outmatched by Harper.

[ToadBrother]

Harper has been in politics his entire adult life and learned from one of the best in Preston Manning. Say what you like about Preston the man was a damned fine politician.

I don't particularly think Harper learned anything from Manning. In fact, by all accounts, the two deeply dislike each other (this seems to be something of an M.O. with Harper and his mentors). At any rate, their style is utterly different.

[Mr.Canada]

No one is disagreeing with me on the point that Ignatieff is way out of his league and lacks the experience to run a party let alone a country. 3 years d=isn't enough public experience to be bale to run a country.

No one is challenging me on the point that Ignatieff will lead the Liberals to have even less seats then they do now either.

Hahaha. Will Ignatieff ever listen to the voters? I doubt it.

[ToadBrother]

No one is disagreeing with me on the point that Ignatieff is way out of his league and lacks the experience to run a party let alone a country. 3 years d=isn't enough public experience to be bale to run a country.

No one is challenging me on the point that Ignatieff will lead the Liberals to have even less seats then they do now either.

Hahaha. Will Ignatieff ever listen to the voters? I doubt it.

Then why worry about it, unless of course you actually think that Iggy may not always be in so much trouble. He's made his mistakes, he's got some housekeeping to take care of, but Harper has demonstrated his own failings enough times that I don't think trying to make him out to some sort of political superman is all that convincing.

[Mr.Canada]

Then why worry about it, unless of course you actually think that Iggy may not always be in so much trouble. He's made his mistakes, he's got some housekeeping to take care of, but Harper has demonstrated his own failings enough times that I don't think trying to make him out to some sort of political superman is all that convincing.

We've already beaten him to the point that he won't be PM in the next election. Now we have to keep the pressure on so we can gain a clear majority and send the Liberal party into fourth place behind the NDP and Bloc. We need to nullify the Liberal party from being a threat to Canada.

We mustn't allow them to continue, we don't want another coalition attempt to be made. Canada depends on us to defend her from these forces. Only the Conservatives can deliver her to safety.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Smallc]

[ToadBrother]

We've already beaten him to the point that he won't be PM in the next election. Now we have to keep the pressure on so we can gain a clear majority and send the Liberal party into third place behind the NDP and Bloc. We need to nullify the Liberal party from being a threat to Canada.

We mustn't allow them to continue, we don't want another coalition attempt to be made. Canada depends on us to defend her from these forces. Only the Conservatives can deliver her to safety.

You seem to have me confused with a Harper supporter. I won't vote Tory until Harper's gone. Iggy's got my vote, despite his tactical problems, I think he's the better man.

[Smallc]

I'm not sure I'll even vote. I don't like either of them.

[Mr.Canada]

You seem to have me confused with a Harper supporter. I won't vote Tory until Harper's gone. Iggy's got my vote, despite his tactical problems, I think he's the better man.

You'd rather give power to a man who cannot make a decision and stick by it. Has no plan or policy for Canada. Has lived outside Canada from the time Trudeau was in power and cannot bring his own party together. This is man who is supposed to be able to unite a country behind him?

[ToadBrother]

You'd rather give power to a man who cannot make a decision and stick by it. Has no plan or policy for Canada. Has lived outside Canada from the time Trudeau was in power and cannot bring his own party together. This is man who is supposed to be able to unite a country behind him?

Yup. I'd rather vote for such a man than Harper.

[Moonbox]

I'm not sure I'll even vote. I don't like either of them.

That will show 'em!

Seriously though. You'll vote, and more than likely it will be LPC.

[myata]

The sad reality of our system. Seriously, people. Let's not vote at all, if we don't see somebody we actually want to support. For once, it may prompt some to go back to the drawing board, and maybe come back with a real alternative. Even better, they may actually think about longer view for our democracy and support a reform to get more meaningful representation. All gains, no pains (not counting immediate, short term). I'm in.

[jdobbin]

Seriously though. You'll vote, and more than likely it will be LPC.

Since he voted for Harper last time, why do you think he would vote Liberal if dissatisfied with his choice?

Sometime you seem to go for the throat for no apparent reason.

[Dave_ON]

The sad reality of our system. Seriously, people. Let's not vote at all, if we don't see somebody we actually want to support. For once, it may prompt some to go back to the drawing board, and maybe come back with a real alternative. Even better, they may actually think about longer view for our democracy and support a reform to get more meaningful representation. All gains, no pains (not counting immediate, short term). I'm in.

I fail to see how not voting would force any kind of change, that simply means that fewer and fewer people are deciding who the government is which would make it even less likely that change will be inacted. That sounds like the most undemocratic decision you can make. Even a bad choice is better than not voting at all, the only way you can make your opinion heard is by voting.