another 9-11 attack planned?

eyeball · October 10, 2009

I wish you would go re-figure an analysis which I have specifically debunked wrt "revenge" for US "interventions"....i.e. still waiting for attacks from Granada.

Specifically debunked? Casual, flippant disagreement is about all I saw.

bush_cheney2004 · October 10, 2009

Specifically debunked? Casual, flippant disagreement is about all I saw.

That's all we need in forums such as this. The threshold of proof is very low, especially in this case. Still waiting......for the....attacks...from............Haiti !! :lol:

October 10, 2009

Are you getting angry? Good!! Now imagine what it would be like for some country halfway around the world to decide to drop a cruise missile in your neighborhood. Think that might make you even more upset?

Or imagine, perhaps, that people from halfway around the world decided to fly some planes into a couple of buildings in my country killing thousands in one hit?

Don't patronize me. I've been upset. Yet I haven't so much as slapped one innocent person.

I don't recall using the term war monger and the spy plane incident is irrelevant.

No, it isn't irrelevant. It's on your site listing all the terrible things the U.S. has done to other nations; a site that you expect me to accept. You think that's the only inaccuracy on that site? I can start with the fact that the U.S. is getting lone blame for all of those instances, but then I have to wonder if anyone gives a damn about anyone or anything other than the U.S. If it were really the actions that you were most concerned with, you wouldn't be dwelling solely on the U.S.

You posted your own link that contains a list nearly identical to the web page I linked so let's just agree that your country has used military force against other countries a lot since WWII. Also, neither of the lists include non-military interventions such as supported coups, interference in elections, political assassinations/assassination attempts, and other not-so-covert operations.

And there is no list for Canada or any other nation, so why don't you rectify that since you care so much about the wrongness involved? Someone who cares so much about wrongs generally wants all who are/were involved to stand up to the same scrutiny.

I do contend that the United States has led the world in aggression against other countries in the post WWII period. If you think that's not right, name another country that you think has done more.

Well, considering there's no handy list, I humbly suggest again that you get right on it. You can start with the European Union. The most recent I can think of is Germany calling for an American air strike in Afghanistan. Oops. The U.S. is the one who did the bombing, so strike Germany from the list and add it only to the U.S.'s list.

And if your government feels that destructions in other countries is warranted because it's bringing democracy to those countries, it should be be prepared to have those claims evaluated in court.

You mean the way Canada's claims regarding WWII were evaluated in court? Link, please.

There are an awful lot of cynics out there (like me) who look at the pattern of actions and come to the conclusion that the aggression has a lot more to do with you forcing your ideological and economic interests than it does to do with democracy.

And there are a lot who come to the conclusion that it doesn't, so what's your point?

Of course there are times when intervention is warranted.

Of course. Like when Canada intervenes.

And perhaps some of the interventions on that list would meet the test. But there need to be rules and ways to enforce those rules.

So go through that list event by event and tell me where intervention 'met the/your test,' and tell me what we should have done differently. It's pretty easy to link to a list that is quite meaningless in and of itself, so give me some substance in regards to your claim.

Your country is 1 of only 2 OECD states that refuses to sign on to the Rome Statute (the other being that great defender of human rights, Turkey). If your government is so sure there is nothing wrong with its actions, why hasn't it signed on?

Clinton signed it, but Bush declined to ratify it. So it's not so much a "U.S. thing" as it was a "Bush" thing. So according to your line of thought, evidently Clinton didn't think there's anything wrong with the U.S.'s actions -- and he was a president after WWII.

eyeball · October 11, 2009

For the life of me I just cannot figure out why the US government doesn't get out in front of this issue like so many of its citizens and international supporters do and take credit for overthrowing people like Mossadegh. Isn't this something to be proud of, shouldn't there be a national day of celebration for all the places the US has invaded or staged coups?

Why the never-ending rear guard defence of something that so many people clearly believe was not only right but just? I just don't get it.

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2009

For the life of me I just cannot figure out why the US government doesn't get out in front of this issue like so many of its citizens and international supporters do and take credit for overthrowing people like Mossadegh. Isn't this something to be proud of, shouldn't there be a national day of celebration for all the places the US has invaded or staged coups?

Yes...there are several:

1) President's Day

2) Memorial Day

3) Flag Day

4) 4th of July

5) Veteran's Day

...any questions?

waldo · October 11, 2009

I do contend that the United States has led the world in aggression against other countries in the post WWII period. If you think that's not right, name another country that you think has done more. And if your government feels that destructions in other countries is warranted because it's bringing democracy to those countries, it should be be prepared to have those claims evaluated in court. There are an awful lot of cynics out there (like me) who look at the pattern of actions and come to the conclusion that the aggression has a lot more to do with you forcing your ideological and economic interests than it does to do with democracy.

waldo · October 11, 2009

Take for example the photo they placed of Bush reading during the 9-11 attacks.
http://www.btinternet.com/~davidbeaumont/m...Upside_Down.jpg

I mean, anyone who will uncritically accept whatever these wingnut sites say is either mentally feeble, a true believer or just not paying attntion.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/bushbook.asp

clearly, that shop'd book is out of place... much too advanced for Bush. The actual pic, the actual book Bush was reading... and continued to read after being alerted to the 9-11 attacks... is "My Pet Goat". Of course, the Bush apologists maintain he wasn't simply dazed, confused and unsure of what to do after being alerted... why, they maintain... Bush was just strategizing :lol:

eyeball · October 11, 2009

Yes...there are several:
1) President's Day

2) Memorial Day

3) Flag Day

4) 4th of July

5) Veteran's Day

...any questions?

Where's your Empire Day?

Edited October 11, 2009 by eyeball

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2009

Where's your Empire Day?

That would be Super Bowl Sunday.....broadcast around the world.

DogOnPorch · October 11, 2009

Go Steelers.

waldo · October 11, 2009

That would be Super Bowl Sunday.....broadcast around the world.

perfect analogy to the brash bold labeling Americans make... just this over powering drive to be called "World Champions"... even if... even if... most - if not the entire rest of the world doesn't want to play "your game". :lol:

DogOnPorch · October 11, 2009

Our game, actually. We play a form of it in Canada, too, in case you didn't notice.

waldo · October 11, 2009

Our game, actually. We play a form of it in Canada, too, in case you didn't notice.

yabut... I don't ever recall the Canadian farm-team league spouting off about being "World Champions" :lol:

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2009

yabut... I don't ever recall the Canadian farm-team league spouting off about being "World Champions"

Nope......that would be the NHL.

DogOnPorch · October 11, 2009

Nope......that would be the NHL.

Don't holier-than-thou-my-s**t-don't-stink Canadians drive you up-the-wall? I know they do that to me.

DogOnPorch · October 11, 2009

Or imagine, perhaps, that people from halfway around the world decided to fly some planes into a couple of buildings in my country killing thousands in one hit?
Don't patronize me. I've been upset. Yet I haven't so much as slapped one innocent person.

The common argument that desperation produces suicide attacks doesn't hold water. If that was true various historical events where desperation was a key element would have produced countless suicide attacks*. Stalingrad...Constantinople...Appomattox, etc. But, they didn't. Suicide attacks seem to have more to do with culture than anything else.

* as opposed to a suicidal attack.

October 11, 2009

yabut... I don't ever recall the Canadian farm-team league spouting off about being "World Champions"

Like bush_cheney already pointed out, you sure enough "spout off" when it's about hockey. (so :lol: back at'cha)

Don't holier-than-thou-my-s**t-don't-stink Canadians drive you up-the-wall? I know they do that to me.

Yeah, actually they do. And it's not just Canadians, it's countries like England and the Netherlands etc. -- countries that were right with us in the fight against terrorism, and countries with a history of imperialism themselves. And it's about the most mundane things. Once when I was sitting around a campfire in the Masai Mara, I had to listen to some British nut ball criticize the U.S. because we call the "World Series" the world series.

It's ironic, because we keep hearing about all the things that we've done to third world countries, yet when I've been in third world countries and criticized the U.S. myself, they've taken on the role of defending the U.S. So, for the most part, it's not the third world countries that exhibit 'anti-Americanism,' it's "the West."

I suppose this is where I hear that I'm in denial, etc, etc, but I'm not. It's just that I recognize the role that others have played, too; I recognize that we aren't the devil incarnate as everyone else is a candidate for sainthood.

Just once I'd like to see other nations put under the microscope that the U.S. is constantly under. It would be interesting, for sure.

Edited October 11, 2009 by American Woman

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2009

Don't holier-than-thou-my-s**t-don't-stink Canadians drive you up-the-wall? I know they do that to me.

Fortunately, those types are in the minority...they choose to ignore Canada's past, present, and future. Last Monday night during the Vikings - Packers game, I confirmed that the Mapleleaf was still hanging proudly in the Metrodome from my seat in section 207, row 5.

October 11, 2009

Fortunately, those types are in the minority...they choose to ignore Canada's past, present, and future. Last Monday night during the Vikings - Packers game, I confirmed that the Mapleleaf was still hanging proudly in the Metrodome from my seat in section 207, row 5.

You were at the Viking-Packer game?? Don't tell me you're a (gasp) Vickings fan. :blink:

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2009

....Just once I'd like to see other nations put under the microscope that the U.S. is constantly under. It would be interesting, for sure.

Definitely, but I suspect that the other nations are not subject to the same bloated expectations for the USA. They want another attack in the "states" to seemingly discredit American policies past and present, and to free them from their own obligations. Won't work.....

waldo · October 11, 2009

Like bush_cheney already pointed out, you sure enough "spout off" when it's about hockey. (so back at'cha)

oh really - appears you've missed the analogy being made... your "World Champion" football - isn't. Most of the world doesn't want to play "your game", in spite of your unabashed need to be labeled as "World Champion", you invariably fall victim to being hoisted with your own petard! As for hockey, the NHL doesn't fall victim to visions of grandeur and World Champion labeling... of the entire world that does play "our game", we can rightly justify any claim to full participation and results therein - we ain't rogue players!

Yeah, actually they do. And it's not just Canadians, it's countries like England and the Netherlands etc. -- countries that were right with us in the fight against terrorism

I guess they were for ya... rather than agin ya :lol: (by the by... is that why you went into Iraq? To fight terrorism? :lol: )

Just once I'd like to see other nations put under the microscope that the U.S. is constantly under. It would be interesting, for sure.

Gee - you're so hard done by, aren't you? Perhaps you should change your meddling ways... exemplified by the Bush Doctrine preemptive war policy... and you might - might - find yourself out from under that microscope you appear to have difficulty dealing with.

DogOnPorch · October 11, 2009

Translation: Leave the poor terrorists alone. Let them terrorize for pity's sake you evil Americans.

DogOnPorch · October 11, 2009

AW: Just once I'd like to see other nations put under the microscope that the U.S. is constantly under. It would be interesting, for sure.

When a bomb blows up that affects them directly, the tune will change.

Why me??? I was on your side...I stood up for you guys.

bush_cheney2004 · October 11, 2009

You were at the Viking-Packer game?? Don't tell me you're a (gasp) Vickings fan.

Well, I sure wouldn't spend $300 to cheer for the Packers! :lol:

GostHacked · October 12, 2009

Well, just shows people can't stay in topic of a thread, they always cry and end up pointing the finger at Canada.

This ain't 'keepin it real' this is acting like an asshat. If you want to bash Canada there is a separate section for that. I know it's difficult for some of you. And this is where good debate breaks down and idiodicy happens.