another 9-11 attack planned?

[waldo]

perhaps you should answer alternate questions: do you think a certain country should hold a preemptive war policy and invade another sovereign country that don't pose any immediate threat? Do you think a certain country should presume to instill it's perceived sense of freedom/democracy/way of life on another sovereign country on the pretext of "nation building"?

Did you miss the part where I was talking to Eyeball, not you?

... like I had to go back a whole half-dozen posts to find one where you "jump in" and comment on an exchange between 2 other MLW members. Don't fret - I certainly understand why you wouldn't like to answer the questions posed.

[dre]

Oh so that's why the murder muslim pakistanis, somalis, arabs, africams...because of foreign influence.

In effect the want a hermetically sealed caliphate where they can have their little wahhabi islam theocracy.....and it doesn't matter if our influence is positive, benign or negative..as long as our influence encompasses sex loving women, freedom of religion, democracy and mini skirts they will proclaim jihad, and your flaccid impotent guilt will do nothing except make you sound cool to the other hippy's kids.

Actually Bin Ladens movement was mostly a reaction to western influence especially the presence of foreign troops. But AlQeada itself is an umbrella not an organization. Its comprised of dozens of loosely affiliated splinter organizations that have dozens of different causes and goals. Some driven by religious extremism, some driven by regional squabbles over land power etc, some driven by arab nationalism.

Your simplistic take on these people is shared by many in the west unfortunately which is why we are getting our asses handed to us in the "GWOT". No understanding of the enemy what-so-ever and only a vague idea of who the enemy even is.

[Guest American Woman]

The Taliban was the ruling force, al Queda is another animal that won't slide into oblivion so long as you keep providing it's raison d etre. Left to their own devices I predict these two would be at each others throats in no time at all.

The big caveat to this however is...if outsiders pick a side they'll thrive.

Maybe you're right. But maybe you're wrong. Who can really say? And as "outsiders" are attacked and killed, how can they not "pick a side?"

I think this OP provides an interesting viewpoint (excerpts):

Conflicts in the Middle East have a tremendous impact on Muslim public opinion worldwide. In justifying its terrorist attacks by referring to Iraq, Al Qaeda is looking for popularity or at least legitimacy among Muslims. But many of the terrorist group's statements, actions and non-actions indicate that this is largely propaganda, and that Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine are hardly the motivating factors behind its global jihad.

.....if the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine are at the core of the radicalization, why are there virtually no Afghans, Iraqis or Palestinians among the terrorists? Rather, the bombers are mostly from the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa, Egypt and Pakistan - or they are Western-born converts to Islam. Why would a Pakistani or a Spaniard be more angry than an Afghan about American troops in Afghanistan? It is precisely because they do not care about Afghanistan as such, but see the United States involvement there as part of a global phenomenon of cultural domination.

It is ... interesting to note that none of the Islamic terrorists captured so far had been active in any legitimate antiwar movements or even in organized political support for the people they claim to be fighting for. They don't distribute leaflets or collect money for hospitals and schools. They do not have a rational strategy to push for the interests of the Iraqi or Palestinian people.

Even their calls for the withdrawal of the European troops from Iraq ring false. After all, the Spanish police have foiled terrorist attempts in Madrid even since the government withdrew its forces. Western-based radicals strike where they are living, not where they are instructed to or where it will have the greatest political effect on behalf of their nominal causes.

Edited October 15, 2009 by American Woman

[M.Dancer]

Actually Bin Ladens movement was mostly a reaction to western influence especially the presence of foreign troops.

Where exactly were those foreign troops in 92? Somalia? What ine interest would AlQ have in western powers delivering aid?

Was foreign troops the reason they attacked the Philipines airline and planted bombs in Manila?

When they attacked US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, killing a couple of 100 africans, was it US troops they were after?

How about alageria? Is that foreign troops too?

It simply laughable that such a simpletons explanation has any currency.

[DogOnPorch]

eyeball: Al Q is calling for a global jihad against foregin influences in Muslim regions.

WTF is a Muslim region? A no go zone of religious/ethnic cleansing? Any place a single Muslim set foot?

[DogOnPorch]

This guy seems to think East London is a Muslim region...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnPhuWFoXtU

[eyeball]

Oh so that's why the murder muslim pakistanis, somalis, arabs, africams...because of foreign influence.

No I suspect they murder these for the same reasons people like you expend so much effort vilifying lefties, liberals, socialists etc etc. They also buy into the notion that if you're not with us you must be against us.

They're also pretty skilled at pinning the blame for a lot of these murders on us. Which is why I say if we simply left them to their own devices they'd soon find themselves having to explain and justify their actions to their own people for a change.

You need to develop a little more faith in the idea that people mostly can and do naturally gravitate towards justice and freedom all on their own.

[bush_cheney2004]

WTF is a Muslim region? A no go zone of religious/ethnic cleansing? Any place a single Muslim set foot?

Good question.....is the mosque down the street a "Muslim region" (on Fridays at prayer time)? You bet !!

[dre]

Where exactly were those foreign troops in 92? Somalia? What ine interest would AlQ have in western powers delivering aid?

Was foreign troops the reason they attacked the Philipines airline and planted bombs in Manila?

When they attacked US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, killing a couple of 100 africans, was it US troops they were after?

How about alageria? Is that foreign troops too?

It simply laughable that such a simpletons explanation has any currency.

Good point. How did any of those things help to create an Islamic Caliphate? Oh yeah... youre right they didnt.

And fighting the soviets in Afghanistan? Lemme guess... he hated their freedom too?

Youre the one with the simpletons explanation. I tried to explain to you that theres a whole myriad of motiviations behind dozens of loosely affiliated groups you mistakenly refer to as "Al Qeada", and that "Al Qeada" isnt even a real coherent organization in the way that you understand it. But go ahead... carry on with your deep and brainy "muslims are evil!!!" analysis

Edited October 15, 2009 by dre

[M.Dancer]

carry on with your deep and brainy "muslims are evil!!!" analysis

Thanks for the straw man farmer brown

I tried to explain to you that theres a whole myriad of motiviations behind dozens of loosely affiliated groups you mistakenly refer to as "Al Qeada"

Actually Bin Ladens movement was mostly a reaction to western influence especially the presence of foreign troops.

I simply adore a person who can simultaneously hold contradictory thoughts.

And fighting the soviets in Afghanistan? Lemme guess... he hated their freedom too?

Given that the Soviet sponsored regime that predated the invasion was on a course to modernize their society and liberate woman, yes.

[M.Dancer]

You need to develop a little more faith in the idea that people mostly can and do naturally gravitate towards justice and freedom all on their own.

You need to take a closer look at failed states. Your Star Trekian utopia only exists in the minds of those locked in their mother's basement.

[GostHacked]

In a new video released ahead of the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, [...] bin Laden attacked capitalism, multinational corporations and globalization.

Sounds as if he's attacking our way of life, to me. Sounds as if he's telling us to ditch capitalism.

What makes me laugh about this, is that I said it was a hit on captialism and not any 'freedoms' Americans enjoy on a day to day basis. For what it is worth, I said it in this thread and people wanted to put the tinfoil on my head.

[M.Dancer]

What makes me laugh about this, is that I said it was a hit on captialism and not any 'freedoms' Americans enjoy on a day to day basis. For what it is worth, I said it in this thread and people wanted to put the tinfoil on my head.

Captialism is our greatest freedom. Feudalism is what Bin Laden offers.

[GostHacked]

Captialism is our greatest freedom. Feudalism is what Bin Laden offers.

My point still stands.

[M.Dancer]

My point still stands.

What was your point? That capitalism ain't a freedom? Ot that being our greatest freedom, it was only a coincidental target?

[GostHacked]

What was your point? That capitalism ain't a freedom? Ot that being our greatest freedom, it was only a coincidental target?

All you need to do is go back a page or two and reread what I wrote.

But since you missed it, I said that the attack on the US was a hit on capitalism. It was not a hit on America because they hate our/your freedoms. I have taken this stance for some time, and with what American Woman posted about Bin Laden saying the same thing, gives my statement more weight.

I know I know .. I already own all the stocks for Alcan.

[M.Dancer]

All you need to do is go back a page or two and reread what I wrote.

But since you missed it, I said that the attack on the US was a hit on capitalism. It was not a hit on America because they hate our/your freedoms.

Then I will say it again. Capitalism is our greatest freedom. Without capitalism our freedoms would not exist. They attacked our greatest freedom.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=American Woman:

"In a new video released ahead of the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, [...] bin Laden attacked capitalism, multinational corporations and globalization."

Sounds as if he's attacking our way of life, to me. Sounds as if he's telling us to ditch capitalism.

What makes me laugh about this, is that I said it was a hit on captialism and not any 'freedoms' Americans enjoy on a day to day basis. For what it is worth, I said it in this thread and people wanted to put the tinfoil on my head.

I don't think it's our day to day freedoms, either. Capitalism is responsible for making our culture global, and I think that's the threat, because it's a threat to his view of Islam -- which he thinks the world should embrace.

[dre]

All you need to do is go back a page or two and reread what I wrote.

But since you missed it, I said that the attack on the US was a hit on capitalism. It was not a hit on America because they hate our/your freedoms. I have taken this stance for some time, and with what American Woman posted about Bin Laden saying the same thing, gives my statement more weight.

I know I know .. I already own all the stocks for Alcan.

I dont think Bin Laden is under any illusion that the odd attack will stop capitalism.

He picked high profile targets, in an attempt to trick the US into a costly open ended military action with the hope that the US would spend itself into oblivion. He calls it "bleed until bankruptcy".

Hes been pretty successful so far... a bunch or ragtag morons has been able to trick the greatest power in human history into spending trillions and trillions of dollars. He thinks that Americans will get sick of borrowing money from China to fight the GWOT and leave the middle east with their tail between their legs.

This is classic guerilla warfare. Guerilla movements know they will never be able to militarily defeat the superior opponent... they win by making it extremely expensive to fight them, so that eventually the superior military opponent has to pack up and go home.

So 911 wasnt an attack on either capitalism or freedom. It was bait.

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden said he is trying to bankrupt the U.S. through its war on terror, a strategy he says felled the Soviet Union two decades ago in Afghanistan, according to a translation by al-Jazeera television of his full, videotaped statement.

Here he even talks about the massive profiteering that would happen as a result of the GWOT... the massive theft of tax payer dollars by US companies and corporations under the guize of security and fighting terrorism.

``All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point East to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaeda, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies,'' bin Laden said, according to the al-Jazeera transcript.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7202.htm

[DogOnPorch]

Strangers on my flight,

turbans they're packin'.

Wonderin' if they might,

plan a hijacking....

http://home.granderiver.net/~capnjim/frank/

[eyeball]

Then I will say it again. Capitalism is our greatest freedom. Without capitalism our freedoms would not exist. They attacked our greatest freedom.

I would have thought it was democracy that you most cherished given all the effort you've put into defending our overthrow of Iran in 1953 on the basis that restoring democracy is why we did so.

Now its capitalism? Okay, whatever...if the maintenance of our greatest freedom depends on selling out our most cherished principles then its not worth the paper its printed on.

In the end, economics will never trump what's right. There will always be a balance sheet to be reckoned with.

[GostHacked]

http://home.granderiver.net/~capnjim/frank/

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/front-line-asse...a-criminal.html

[bush_cheney2004]

.....Hes been pretty successful so far... a bunch or ragtag morons has been able to trick the greatest power in human history into spending trillions and trillions of dollars. He thinks that Americans will get sick of borrowing money from China to fight the GWOT and leave the middle east with their tail between their legs.

No he hasn't.....the US presence in the "middle east" has never been greater, and now includes the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Japan thought that strategy would work too....it did....for about 9 months.

[M.Dancer]

Okay, whatever...

Good.

[DogOnPorch]

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/front-line-asse...a-criminal.html

Mine was a joke.

The Front Line Assembly lyrics you refer to claim the US is responsible for the war in Darfur. Do you believe that?