Argus Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The National Capital Commision is a much unloved federal insitution which controls a lot of the land around Ottawa, and its board is made up of political appointees - flacks and hacks of no particular talent or skill. It seems some emigres from Communist countries want to put up a memorial to the victims of Communism, but the NCC is quite worried about it offending Communists and Marxists, and wants them to take the name "communist" out of it. Ottawa Memorial Might Offend Communists Can anyone imagine a similar sitution where someone wanted to put up a memorial to the victims of Nazis, and the wackos on a federal board worried that it might offend local Nazis and skinheads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Can anyone imagine a similar sitution where someone wanted to put up a memorial to the victims of Nazis, and the wackos on a federal board worried that it might offend local Nazis and skinheads? That's not the same thing at all. Can you imagine them putting up a memories to the 'victims of totalitarian fascism' ? Why would they qualify that ? The difference is that communists consider the totalitarian strain of communism to be a mutation of communism. Fascism doesn't have a democratic version so it's not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 That's not the same thing at all.Can you imagine them putting up a memories to the 'victims of totalitarian fascism' ? Why would they qualify that ? The difference is that communists consider the totalitarian strain of communism to be a mutation of communism. Fascism doesn't have a democratic version so it's not the same. I'm inclined to diagree given that the democratic strain of communism exists only in fantasyland while the victims of communism are in the tens of millions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 You disagree with the communists ? How brave of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Take a stand Morris ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 You disagree with the communists ? How brave of you. No I disgree with your distinction as facile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 So Fascism and Communism are the same ? The difference is that communists consider the totalitarian strain of communism to be a mutation of communism. Fascism doesn't have a democratic version so it's not the same. Are you bored at work ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'm inclined to diagree given that the democratic strain of communism exists only in fantasyland while the victims of communism are in the tens of millions. I think Michael was getting at the idea that we erect monuments to specific events, not to general ideas. (how about a monument to remember the victims of meanness?) Edmonton has a memorial to the millions who starved to death in Ukraine because of Stalin. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 If communists want to be offended let them be offended. Their ideas have brought grief enough to the world. More by far than even the Nazis. None can even count the tens of millions that died under Stalin and Mao and the others. Of all human philosophies, communism is the one most deserving of a monument to its folly, that the only thing one can become if one embraces communism is a victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Remember when Stalin was our ally - a brother in arms? So how about a memorial to the victims of some of the other murderers that have likewise been our allies, or would that be too gauche as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 If communists want to be offended let them be offended. Their ideas have brought grief enough to the world. More by far than even the Nazis. None can even count the tens of millions that died under Stalin and Mao and the others. Of all human philosophies, communism is the one most deserving of a monument to its folly, that the only thing one can become if one embraces communism is a victim. Well said! We know Stalin murdered 20 million ,we will never know how many Mao murdered. Adolph and his mad of nut bars were choir boys in comparison to this gruesome twosome of communism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 If communists want to be offended let them be offended. Their ideas have brought grief enough to the world. More by far than even the Nazis. See, this is what I'm talking about. If we put up a memorial then folks like Bonam will draw the wrong conclusion. Another analogy - It's somewhat akin to putting up a memorial to the 'misdeeds of the west' and lumping us in with any G7 government since who knows when. This line of thought is something today's leftists enjoy engaging in, and it's only a fit distraction for people like us who ignore arguing about nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Well said! We know Stalin murdered 20 million ,we will never know how many Mao murdered. Adolph and his mad of nut bars were choir boys in comparison to this gruesome twosome of communism. Hmmm, last time I looked at the thread on Afghanistan and Oil, Stalin and another freind of ours, Winston Churchill are being fingered as the one's that installed the dictators in Iran that finally culminated in things like Islamic extremism and 9/11...apparently this was all the result of trying to keep Hitler from grabbing all the oil. Fascinating. Everyday around here serves up some new fresh wrinkle to things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) That's not the same thing at all.Can you imagine them putting up a memories to the 'victims of totalitarian fascism' ? Why would they qualify that ? The difference is that communists consider the totalitarian strain of communism to be a mutation of communism. Fascism doesn't have a democratic version so it's not the same. Whatever the Communists consider, there is no democratic communist state and never has been. Communists don't "like elections once they're in power. Also, the point is no one would object to a statue commemorating the victims of "totalitarian facism" but the NCC doesn'te even want the word Communism on the memorial, even if it does say "totalitarian" . Another point. No one would care if Fascists were offended by a memorial. In fact, most people would probably think that a bonus. But here we are concerned that Communists might be offended. Why? Why do some people disdain Fascists but respect Communists? Edited September 16, 2009 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Like I say - there are democratic communists in our midst but are there democratic fascists ? Communism will be coming back some day, so let's save ourselves the effort of having to rework these monuments in future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Like I say - there are democratic communists in our midst but are there democratic fascists ?Communism will be coming back some day, so let's save ourselves the effort of having to rework these monuments in future... Can you name that democratic communist regime? How about a monument to the victims of communist regimes then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Communism will be coming back some day That will be a dark and terrible day indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Can you name that democratic communist regime?How about a monument to the victims of communist regimes then? Mo, Not sure what you mean... How about a monument to the victims of Pol Pot, or the victims of the Soviet Union ? Or we could drop this whole discussion in the real world and leave it here on MLW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Mo,Not sure what you mean... How about a monument to the victims of Pol Pot, or the victims of the Soviet Union ? Or we could drop this whole discussion in the real world and leave it here on MLW. A monument to the victims of communism need be collective.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 They're not victims of communism any more than we're victims of colonialism... away with you and your monument building... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 A monument to the victims of communism need be collective.... Haha, awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Haha, awesome Thank you...I try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrueMetis Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 If communists want to be offended let them be offended. Their ideas have brought grief enough to the world. More by far than even the Nazis. None can even count the tens of millions that died under Stalin and Mao and the others. Of all human philosophies, communism is the one most deserving of a monument to its folly, that the only thing one can become if one embraces communism is a victim. If the Nazis had won they probably would have killed way more people than the Soviets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 If the Nazis had won they probably would have killed way more people than the Soviets. Probably true yes, but I speak of what did happen in our history, not what could have happened in a parallel universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lictor616 Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) That's not the same thing at all.Can you imagine them putting up a memories to the 'victims of totalitarian fascism' ? Why would they qualify that ? The difference is that communists consider the totalitarian strain of communism to be a mutation of communism. Fascism doesn't have a democratic version so it's not the same. Yes of course, communism (being a conspiracy, not a political ideology) can never be carried out, which is why the venal communists of today all repudiate Stalinism as some how "not really communism"... Communism is as versatile as evil itself: it is all things to all men... communism preached independence and racially homogeneous societies to the blacks of Africa in the 60's 70's and 80's.... while simultaneously preaching INTERDEPENDENCE and "bortherhood" to the idiots and suckers in the US and Canada. Communism (be it maoist, stalinist, Pol potist, cuban etc) leads to but one end: misery and death. It is an "ideology" of anti-humans. Communism comes from the primeval abyss of savagery and ignorance, far from being the "futuristic" ideology it claims to be , communism is the most primitive of human society craft... our ancestors homo-habilis and homo erectus where communists (ie lived in communes without such notions as private property or currency and in the state of indiscriminate equality) Hierarchy and division of labor is a faculty of civilized society. Also both varieties of fascism in Europe were DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED... that cannot be said of communism. and to number the total victims of communism at a conservative glance is roughly 119 million (RJ Rummel) people in this century alone. Far far beyond anything fascists ever did (most of fascism's victims after all were mere communists) Edited September 17, 2009 by lictor616 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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