Ignatieff pledges to erase deficit with no new taxes

[Smallc]

Waldo, that was Jean Chretien's pie-in-the-sky national child care program, which first appeared in the Red Book in 1993 and Martin continued the tradition. It simply makes Liberals feel good to have universal child care in their list of priorities.

Except that Paul Martin actually implemented the plan.

[Keepitsimple]

Except that Paul Martin actually implemented the plan.

The "plan" was nothing more than an agreement with individual provinces whereby money was given to them for the broad purpose of providing some services relating to Child Care. There was no grand plan - each province could do as they liked. The Libs knew early on that they could not dictate Early Childhood Learning to the provinces - because education is the responsibility of the provinces, all of which in some manner were implementing their own plans. So of course, the provinces would naturally say "thanks for the money".

Each province has their own challenges in delivering Childcare that starts with a grass-roots demand for services. It should have nothing to do with Ottawa in terms of delivering those services. There's only one taxpayer and it should come from the Provincial treasury, perhaps with some help from the Municipal coffers. Once again, the beauty of Canada is that we have 10 Procinces that can set up different delivery mechanisms and the best and most appropriate ones can be copied by other provinces. It's like a giant test lab and it's terrific....as long as bureaucracy doesn't drag it down.

[Smallc]

The "plan" was nothing more than an agreement with individual provinces whereby money was given to them for the broad purpose of providing some services relating to Child Care

Money was given after an agreement was reached on what the money was to be for. You're right that each province has different challenges...that's why the plan didn't have a one size fits al approach.

[Argus]

And Harper had a choice: No deficits.

Stop trying to divert. Two days ago Ignatieff said there would be no new taxes. Now he's saying there must be new taxes? What's going on over there?

[Smallc]

Now he's saying there must be new taxes?

What exactly are you talking about?

[Keepitsimple]

Here's an interesting quote from John McCallum......and why many posters on this board cringe when they hear the Liberals boast about how they "slew" the deficit. I live in Ontario and it was precisely because of the Liberals' actions on the deficit that Education and Healthcare suffered so badly.

In John McCallum's own words:

The Liberals' finance critic said there would be no repeat of the 1990s – when the party under Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin slashed transfers to the provinces.

That gambit helped turn around the nation's finances, but created problems in schools and hospitals from coast to coast.

Liberal finance critic John McCallum now suggests the severity of those cuts may have been a mistake.

"We will absolutely not reduce transfer payments to the provinces," McCallum told The Canadian Press.

"It's true that this is something we have done in the past – but we have learned from our mistakes."

Link: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/690853

[daniel]

...I live in Ontario and it was precisely because of the Liberals' actions on the deficit that Education and Healthcare suffered so badly....

Actually it was under Mike Harris (PC). Remember the Common Sense Revolution and John Snobelen's "Create a crisis" remark? And then there's that crazy funding formula.

[OddSox]

Actually it was under Mike Harris (PC). Remember the Common Sense Revolution and John Snobelen's "Create a crisis" remark? And then there's that crazy funding formula.

And Bob Rae was better? McGuinty (read my lips) is better?

[OddSox]

And Harper had a choice: No deficits.

Huh? I thought you guys wanted him to 'work with others' and 'compromise' etc. etc.

Do you think a 'no deficit' budget would have passed in the house? If Harper had tried to pass a 'no deficit' budget, the coalition would have implemented their own deficit budget - and once the national child care program, the national unemployment payments program, the national pension insurance program, etc. etc. were included, the deficit would have been much closer to Obama's numbers...

Edited September 4, 2009 by OddSox

[Moonbox]

Actually it was under Mike Harris (PC). Remember the Common Sense Revolution and John Snobelen's "Create a crisis" remark? And then there's that crazy funding formula.

The common sense revolution was exactly that. It was a shift away from spending money that we didn't have. Other than the 407 being sold off I loved Mike Harris. I'd take him any day over McGuinty. He has no idea how to run an economy.

[Smallc]

I think that across Canada there are a total of six fans of Mike Harris. Apparently two of them post here.

[Topaz]

Just before the summer break, Iggy did say, while the economy is on the downturn, there couoldn't be any tax increases but there would be increases after the economy got good again. How else can Canada pay off the debt? Increase taxes or cut spending, which do you want? You could sell all the realestate the government owns as the Tory want to do and there may not be enough money to pay the debt off. Do you want foreign ownership to our crown corporations? Its alot easier to get into debt then to get out of it.

[Oleg Bach]

Just before the summer break, Iggy did say, while the economy is on the downturn, there couoldn't be any tax increases but there would be increases after the economy got good again. How else can Canada pay off the debt? Increase taxes or cut spending, which do you want? You could sell all the realestate the government owns as the Tory want to do and there may not be enough money to pay the debt off. Do you want foreign ownership to our crown corporations? Its alot easier to get into debt then to get out of it.

To hell with debt..stiff the buggers. As for OUR guys selling things off to foreign buyers - got to put a stop to that - look at all the crown corporations - that the people paid for that were sold off to private domestic persons - who now want to force up the anti - and now sell off what they got cheap - to some foreigner...You would think that someone might notice the original theft? Look at the east west 407 highway - sold off and now some person you do not pay can pull your drivers licence indirectly - this is an issue of attonomy - do we want to own our own home called Canada - or do we want to be the like the American traitors that sold their nation and people off like slaves to the slave state China - ?

[Moonbox]

I think that across Canada there are a total of six fans of Mike Harris. Apparently two of them post here.

Yeah...that's why he was re-elected right?

Somehow you seem to think that money for government spending comes from thin air. Mike Harris knew better and brought us back from careening public deficits.

Mike Harris is hated by people who depend on public spending. It's no surprise that welfare recipients, unemployed students or people in general who barely or never work for a living didn't like him.

He was elected and re-elected by millions, however, and I don't think he could care less about what children in Manibota thought about him.

[Smallc]

That's why his successor lost. to McGuinty....who was reelected. Funny how it all can be turned back, eh?

[Moonbox]

That's why his successor lost. to McGuinty....who was reelected. Funny how it all can be turned back, eh?

Yes, his successor, who happened to be a dried-up old man who disagreed with many of Harris and Flaherty's policies. Ernie Eves was a gaff machine and things like Walkerton, the 2003 blackout and the idiotic decision to announce a budget at the corportate headquarters of Magna instead of in the legislature all blew up in his face.

Dalton McGuinty ran against a political buffoon in 2003 and in the 2007 election, polls indicated he'd lose until the genius PC leader John Tory decided to introduce the mind-boggling proposal of funding faith-based schools. You can imagine what the prospects of Jewish-only, Hindu-only and Muslim-only schools did for John Tory's chances in the election. It almost seemed he was trying to lose.

It's absolutely fascinating, however, to hear how much kids in Manitoba know about our politics here in Ontario....

Let's just see how old Dalton does in the next Ontario election okay?

[Keepitsimple]

Actually it was under Mike Harris (PC). Remember the Common Sense Revolution and John Snobelen's "Create a crisis" remark? And then there's that crazy funding formula.

Make sure you've read John McCallum's statements that I posted. He acknowledges that cutting transfers as much as they did was a bad thing. I lived through the Harris years and am thankful that he had the courage to do what he did. Once it was done, he knew his time was up. He never claimed to be a nice guy. Most people don't really appreciate the scale of problems that he faced upon coming to power. As an example, he inherited an 8 billion dollar deficit with only 45 billion of revenues. By comparison, our current premier, Mr. Mcguinty, inherited a $5 billion deficit but had $90 billion in revenues - and he considered that catastrophic. Can you do the math? Do you truly see the difference and how you could not simply stand still and hope that things got better. I remember the Rae days - taxes increased so much that businesses were fleeing Ontario and nobody new companies were coming in. That's why revenues were in a downward spiral. Harris cut taxes - businesses came back, revenues grew - and the deficit was gone in 5 years. Healthcare has been eating up more and more of our revenues every year and it didn't stop when Harris left - it's still going on....but he initiated regionalizing of hospital facilities and close some - a very unpopular but necessary move.

As for "that crazy funding formula" - keep in mind that it's still there to this very day - and you know why? Because it works - or at least Mr. McGuinty thinks so. It still needs some tinkering but nobody ever said it had to stay exactly as is. I remember the days when there was no central bargaining. Each school board across the province had to bargain separately with the Teacher's Union. The Union would pick on a different one every year - usually a weak one with no experience. They'd drive the hardest bargain they could, gain the most benefits and wage concessions - and then use it as a template for all boards right across the province - and if anyone refused to comply - that board's teacher's would strike until they caved. This was at a time when education was funded from property taxes....so the Unions were accountable to no one - the taxpayer just kept paying the bill as benefits and wages went up. So Harris centralized bargaining and created the funding formula - in effect stopping the bottomless union bargaining pit.

Now remember - this was all done in the context of an $8 billion deficit and $45 billion in revenues. The "crisis" from Snobelon is a good point - nothing gets done without a crisis - without huge motivation. One only need to look at Global Warming/Climate Change or H1N1. Harris was a mean son-of-a B but he knew what had to be done - he did it - and he moved on. He never asked to be liked. History will show that he actually saved Healthcare and Education in Ontario.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[Moonbox]

Harris was a mean son-of-a B but he knew what had to be done - he did it - and he moved on. He never asked to be liked. History will show that he actually saved Healthcare and Education in Ontario.

A lot of smart people appreciated his no-bullshit approach to things. I'd vote for him again and so would a lot of people.

[Argus]

I think that across Canada there are a total of six fans of Mike Harris. Apparently two of them post here.

You are once again ascribing your own hatreds to other people. Harris has legions of fans, despit the fact the media despised him. He won whopping majorities, and it's hard to believe had he stayed on that he would have done as poorly as Ernie Eves.

One of the benefits people saw in him was that you basically got what you paid for. There wasn't any doubts about Harris. He was predictable, and when he said he was going to do something, he generally did it.

As opposed to McGuinty "I won't raise your taxes, but I won't lower them either" who raised taxes about eight minutes after winning his first election.

[Argus]

Just before the summer break, Iggy did say, while the economy is on the downturn, there couoldn't be any tax increases but there would be increases after the economy got good again.]

From the original post, the original cite, just TWO DAYS AGO.

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff pledged Wednesday to erase the projected $50 billion federal deficit if elected into government -- and to do so without raising taxes.

[wulf42]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

We are getting a clearer idea what the election will be on now.

lol......like anyone cares or believes anything a Liberal has to say!

[punked]

From the original post, the original cite, just TWO DAYS AGO.

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff pledged Wednesday to erase the projected $50 billion federal deficit if elected into government -- and to do so without raising taxes.

He stated no cuts to Transfer payments today too. Give me a break this is how we know this is how Liberals get balance budgets.

[jdobbin]

Stop trying to divert. Two days ago Ignatieff said there would be no new taxes. Now he's saying there must be new taxes? What's going on over there?

The links was from a few months ago not a day ago. He was answering a hypothetical question which we talked about at the time.

[jdobbin]

lol......like anyone cares or believes anything a Liberal has to say!

You seem to.

[jdobbin]

Here's an interesting quote from John McCallum......and why many posters on this board cringe when they hear the Liberals boast about how they "slew" the deficit. I live in Ontario and it was precisely because of the Liberals' actions on the deficit that Education and Healthcare suffered so badly.

Think you forget about the tax decreases provinces did at the same time rather than fund their programs.