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There's nothing in the DESIGN of the system that implies the opposition parties should quietly stand by while a presiding government self destructs and brings the country down with it.

The government is responsible for governing and maintaining confidence. An opposition would never let a government bring the country down....they'd bring the government down first.

You will see parties work together from time to time on things, but at most times, it isn't in any of their interests because our system is highly partisan. It's just the way it is. Ignatieff would be stupid to start doing the government's job for it by providing them with his better ideas.

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The government is responsible for governing and maintaining confidence. An opposition would never let a government bring the country down....they'd bring the government down first.

You will see parties work together from time to time on things, but at most times, it isn't in any of their interests because our system is highly partisan. It's just the way it is. Ignatieff would be stupid to start doing the government's job for it by providing them with his better ideas.

Bring on the talk of a coalition I want to watch the Tories bounce off the walls!

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Me, I can't wait for the next election. I've voted in a handful, only a couple of times Liberal, and none of those times with any real conviction. Chretien was a very capable PM, and Canada did well under him, but he wasn't very inspiring.

I want to exercise my franchise because not only is it my right, not only is it my civic duty, but it is my passion. I may have been that rare youth who actually was interested in politics and tried to keep up.

I want to see if Ignatieff is made of the right stuff, if he's got some good ideas, if he's really been spending his summer hammering out some big platform and has been holding it close to his chest. I want to see if I can vote Liberal and really mean it.

I want to see Ignatieff and Harper go at it one-on-one in the debate and see if something exciting happens. See if one of them blows the other out of the water or if they just lock horns and shove each other around.

I want to see some decisive judgement of Ignatieff and more so of Harper. I don't want another Conservative minority. He's had two kicks at that can. Either give him a majority and let's see what he's been keeping in reserve, or kick him out of the PMO so we can get the next guy into the leadership of the Conservatives and see who he is and what he does (or she). If it's a Liberal minority, I hope it's big enough that the NDP alone wield the balance of power and I hope Jack can grow up a bit and realise he'll never be PM and might as well work with what he's got.

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This ought to be funny. Kinda like watching "Wipeout".

It'll be a pleasure watching the Convenient Canadian head back to the States in early December.

Like he did after he lost the leadership to Dion? No, he stuck around after that.

Then he must have split the day after the last election when the Liberals had their butts handed to them. But no, he stuck around after that too.

For a guy who supposedly will leave at any setback, he sure does stick around.

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There's nothing in the DESIGN of the system that implies the opposition parties should quietly stand by while a presiding government self destructs and brings the country down with it.

So you admit that's what the Harper Conservatives are doing? Self-destructing and bringing down Canada?

It's all well and good for an opposition party to boldly put forward good ideas for the salvation of the country, but the Government will either poke it full of holes, ridicule it, bury it, or steal it. And the best that the opposition can hope for if it's a really good idea is the last option, and then they get no credit, so where's the motivation?

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Very interesting. Ignatieff has now said it....they will pull the trigger. Now Canadians will know that it is and will be the Liberals who are forcing an election. This may very well translate itself into negative polling for the Libs - we'll soon see. No more speculation from Dobbin about Harper pulling the trigger - we've now heard it straight from the horse's mouth and no matter how it plays out, the next election will be tied to these very quotes that Mr. Smarty Pants Ignatieff said today. It's pretty well the same as Jumpin' Jack saying he'll vote down the budget before he's even read it.

As much as I don't like the Liberal backroom boys, Senator David Smith has been trying to preach patience instead of elections. He's not stupid - he can see that internal Liberal polling numbers are not good - and will probably get worse. He's the guy who personally recruited Mr. Ignatieff and it seems he's lost control of his puppet. Ignatieff's impatience is clearly tied to the fact that he didn't come to Canada to be in opposition - he was destined for greatness - and promised the throne.....and by golly, he's going after it.

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Very interesting. Ignatieff has now said it....they will pull the trigger. Now Canadians will know that it is and will be the Liberals who are forcing an election. This may very well translate itself into negative polling for the Libs - we'll soon see. No more speculation from Dobbin about Harper pulling the trigger - we've now heard it straight from the horse's mouth and no matter how it plays out, the next election will be tied to these very quotes that Mr. Smarty Pants Ignatieff said today. It's pretty well the same as Jumpin' Jack saying he'll vote down the budget before he's even read it.

As much as I don't like the Liberal backroom boys, Senator David Smith has been trying to preach patience instead of elections. He's not stupid - he can see that internal Liberal polling numbers are not good - and will probably get worse. He's the guy who personally recruited Mr. Ignatieff and it seems he's lost control of his puppet. Ignatieff's impatience is clearly tied to the fact that he didn't come to Canada to be in opposition - he was destined for greatness - and promised the throne.....and by golly, he's going after it.

Martin was flirting with majority territory in polling in '06, but we all know how that election turned out. And as has been noted in this thread, Harper unilaterally called the last one and we also know how that one turned out.

Why does everyone think people hate voting so much they'll punish those who make them do it?

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I'd still like to see a coalition that would help drag the liberal policies a little more leftward where they belong.

This is a good point. The Liberals appear to be in a constant identity crisis and seem unsure of where they should park themselves in the political spectrum. In this respect, the NDP and the Bloc offer a good yardstick as to what constitutes the left and thus serve a useful purpose in evaluating Liberal policy.

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Who said Jack is going to cave -in? IF he makes a deal with Harper, which I can't see happening , Harper said he wouldn't move on EI and that's one of the NDP's priorities and jobs. BUT if Jack does get this way, then its Harper that caved-in and not Jack. I would hope that Jack make a deal with Harper, I'm tired of the crap in the Commons and stuff that this party has pulled. It's time for a change, better or worse, we won't know until Iggy gets his chance at a minority government and if he doesn't work out put, Jack and the NDP in. Harper can't keep blaming the global recession on their spending and Canada's high debt.

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This is a good point. The Liberals appear to be in a constant identity crisis and seem unsure of where they should park themselves in the political spectrum. In this respect, the NDP and the Bloc offer a good yardstick as to what constitutes the left and thus serve a useful purpose in evaluating Liberal policy.

Yes I agree. If one goes right of the center-left, where would it be? There isn't a different identity for the Iggy's Libs anymore, they are fighting over the same territory with the Conservatives with image optics and electioneering ploys. I've no idea who'll benefit of it, but I doubt any regular Canadian would notice a slightest difference.

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So you admit that's what the Harper Conservatives are doing? Self-destructing and bringing down Canada?

I don't admit anything of the sort. What I'm saying is that it's a pretty flimsy position for Ignatieff to declare Harper's policies since the recession have been poor and wrong for Canada and then, just like Dion, vote for them and support them. It's even more flimsy for him to say AFTER the fact that these were the wrong policies and that great harm has been done, since he voted for them in the first place. What I'm saying is that if Ignatieff had better plans and he thought Harper's policies were going to cause damage, he shouldn't have supported them.

It's all well and good for an opposition party to boldly put forward good ideas for the salvation of the country, but the Government will either poke it full of holes, ridicule it, bury it, or steal it. And the best that the opposition can hope for if it's a really good idea is the last option, and then they get no credit, so where's the motivation?

That's really the whole point isn't it? The opposition is more concerned, like Ignatieff is right now, with political games than he is with the good governing of Canada. Harper played similar games himself while he was the opposition leader. That doesn't change the fact that it's still games and many will see it as such and be annoyed with it.

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The NDP has said that they will not support this government no matter what. If they do, they'll have caved.
If they do, then what will the Liberals do? Especially if the NDP extract concessions from Harper, or more concessions the the Liberals?

Of course Harper is not one to give concessions, especially to the NDP.

But seriously, few would care if the NDP backed the CPC, just like few people were concerned about the LPC backing the CPC. Perhaps hard core Liberals would care... LOL.

But, I really can't see it happening, unless the NDP get something on EI and I don't see the CPC caving in on anything, as the CPC is election ready.

If Ignatieff follows through, there will be a fall election.

That's about it.

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If they do, then what will the Liberals do? Especially if the NDP extract concessions from Harper, or more concessions the the Liberals?

Of course Harper is not one to give concessions, especially to the NDP.

But seriously, few would care if the NDP backed the CPC, just like few people were concerned about the LPC backing the CPC. Perhaps hard core Liberals would care... LOL.

But, I really can't see it happening, unless the NDP get something on EI and I don't see the CPC caving in on anything, as the CPC is election ready.

If Ignatieff follows through, there will be a fall election.

That's about it.

I just gave the NDP 100 dollars to tell them I want this election. However if the NDP get the EI concession I am willing to put it off until March. I think I was use the Liberal line if the NDP cave of "DO YOU WANT AN ELECTION EVERY FEW MONTHS?" or how about "IT WILL COST 300 MILLION." or I will use " I SAY WHATEVER THE LEADER OF THE PARTY TELLS ME."

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Very interesting. Ignatieff has now said it....they will pull the trigger. Now Canadians will know that it is and will be the Liberals who are forcing an election. This may very well translate itself into negative polling for the Libs - we'll soon see. No more speculation from Dobbin about Harper pulling the trigger - we've now heard it straight from the horse's mouth and no matter how it plays out, the next election will be tied to these very quotes that Mr. Smarty Pants Ignatieff said today. It's pretty well the same as Jumpin' Jack saying he'll vote down the budget before he's even read it.

Oh, I'm certain that Harper was going to pull the trigger before the term limit. He did it before. We know he was capable of doing it again.

He can try to blame the Liberals for an election but then he didn't get that mighty backlash that was promised on the Tory front here about him calling it early last time. In fact, many of the Tories were singing a different tune and saying the last election was necessary and the Liberal's fault.

As much as I don't like the Liberal backroom boys, Senator David Smith has been trying to preach patience instead of elections. He's not stupid - he can see that internal Liberal polling numbers are not good - and will probably get worse. He's the guy who personally recruited Mr. Ignatieff and it seems he's lost control of his puppet. Ignatieff's impatience is clearly tied to the fact that he didn't come to Canada to be in opposition - he was destined for greatness - and promised the throne.....and by golly, he's going after it.

Look, the Tories can't have it both ways. They had it clearly in their power to reach across the floor but take every opportunity to act out. If you don't want an election, stop screaming coward across the floor and trying to stab others through the heart and thinking it won't result in an election.

Now, by all means tell me that this will result in Harper getting his majority. I don't think it will. I believe it will result in a Tory minority with reduced numbers based on what we see now. After that, I guess the Tories will have to decide if they want to go into another election after that under Harper. That would be a few kicks at the can. I suspect there will be some serious thought abut trying something different.

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Or the knives come for another losing Liberal leader right?

Blood stains on the walls still remain from the carving up of Dion. What is certain is this: If Harper fails to deliver a majority after successive minorities, he is finished in his party and, of more importance, his best before date in the eyes of the electorate will have passed.

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Blood stains on the walls still remain from the carving up of Dion. What is certain is this: If Harper fails to deliver a majority after successive minorities, he is finished in his party and, of more importance, his best before date in the eyes of the electorate will have passed.

I can't imagine that another minority would be accepted as a reason let him run again. He's gone for sure if he is defeated even if it is a squeaker.

The only way that Ignatieff goes in the election is if he produces worse results than Dion.

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I can't imagine that another minority would be accepted as a reason let him run again. He's gone for sure if he is defeated even if it is a squeaker.

The only way that Ignatieff goes in the election is if he produces worse results than Dion.

So you think if Ignatieff delivers 80 seats he will stay? How about 85? 90? I think he needs 100.

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