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You guys despised Manning, and called him a dangerous fanatic.

You guys despised Day and called him a dangerous fanatic

You guys despised Harper and called him a dangerous fanatic.

The plain and simple fact is that no matter who leads the Tories you people will hate him and call him a dangerous fanatic.

Fourth time’s the charm perhaps? Granted the leaders have gotten progressively better. The CPC would be nowhere near forming the government if Day or Manning were still running the show. Harper's been the only one that could distance the CPC from their deep Christian Right roots. He's managed to bring the party more to the centre to the clear benefit of the party.

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Sure it was. Sure Dion was a dud, through no fault of his own really. It's a shame really, he was quite a smart, honest and well intentioned man, just not particularly articulate, in English at least nor the least bit inspiring.

Be that as it may we both know the CPC didn't run on a platform that "was playing in the background" they ran on a campaign that was "Harper isn't Dion" and nothing more. They were the only party with no plan for the tanking economy that their apparent background platform was not addressing. What I found to be truly ironic is that Harper's multi-point plan on the economy, when he got around to acknowledging there was in fact an issue that is, was so similar to Dion's multi-point strategy it was almost uncanny.

Regardless this is the best possible time for an election for the LPC; it antecedes the Olympics and the economic recovery that will come following them. I'll be interested to see what kind of a campaign tack the CPC takes this time around. They have a huge deficit to defend and explain how they plan to pay it down; they’ll have to do better than a “background platform” this time round.

The Liberals want to spend even more money, quicker then the Tories.

Every nation is doing some stimulus spending so this is a non issue.

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Fourth time’s the charm perhaps? Granted the leaders have gotten progressively better. The CPC would be nowhere near forming the government if Day or Manning were still running the show. Harper's been the only one that could distance the CPC from their deep Christian Right roots. He's managed to bring the party more to the centre to the clear benefit of the party.

and that's really the next step. The reason why the CPC doesn't do better in Quebec and Ontario is because it still sticks too close to its bible-thumping western roots. Harper's fiscal management hasn't helped things along too much, but he'd have long ago had a majority if he didn't cling to backward social beliefs.

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You guys despised Manning, and called him a dangerous fanatic.

I know many Liberals actually believed Manning was a decent person. It was some of his candidates that were out there. The candidate they ran in my riding made national news for her many of her comments.

I believe Manning did his best to temper these candidates but there was also this danger in starting up a protest party.

I still believe Manning is a decent person.

You guys despised Day and called him a dangerous fanatic.

Don't think that was the case. The problem for Day was a case of style over substance. The Liberals were cruel with the Barney jibes but the concern many secular people have is the religious people's faith will trump science.

You guys despised Harper and called him a dangerous fanatic.

I'll agree with that. His fanatical anti-Liberal views means that he would rather attack than govern half the time.

The plain and simple fact is that no matter who leads the Tories you people will hate him and call him a dangerous fanatic.

The plain and simple fact is that many Reform influences overshadow some of the elements of the PCs that people actually liked. As much as I disliked Mulroney for what he did to Manitoba, he had one of the best environmental policies in Canadian history.

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and that's really the next step. The reason why the CPC doesn't do better in Quebec and Ontario is because it still sticks too close to its bible-thumping western roots. Harper's fiscal management hasn't helped things along too much, but he'd have long ago had a majority if he didn't cling to backward social beliefs.

Please cite me some example of the CPC "bible thumping". I'd also like an example of some of PM Harper's backward social beliefs.

Making blanket statements without proof is a poor excuse for posting at all.

Edited by Mr.Canada
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It was like 3 months ago you Liberals were Screaming "DO YOU WANT AN ELECTION EVERY YEAR!!!!! THE NDP DOES" now that point is moot? Crazy how the things go eh?

Either way your reply doesn't address the post you quoted which is minority governments mean frequent elections. Do you dispute that fact?

I suppose since you're feeling particularly pugnacious this morning, I'll bite.

Much like the NDP were criticizing the LPC for propping up the CPC, but now that they have a kick at King Makers they're strongly considering it? What happened to voting against the CPC on principle at all cost? Not so easy to vote "No" when that vote might actually bite you in the butt is it? Free ride is over, you can't give a protest vote and blame the LPC for maintaining the status quo anymore.

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The Liberals want to spend even more money, quicker then the Tories.

Every nation is doing some stimulus spending so this is a non issue.

No I somehow doubt the CPC will be able to run an election without a concrete deficit reduction plan. Their typicaly airy fairy sometime in the future we'll return to surplus won't cut it. You can be sure that the opposition will be hammering the CPC on this point. Without Dion to distract the electorate, the CPC will actually have to come up with a plan prior to election day.

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Neither could the Liberals before them. Remember? :blink:

True. However, the Tories outdid all of that by cutting taxes even deeper and spending even more.

Also add into the mix the fact that Ignatieff's main talking points have been that the CPC hasn't been spending stimulus $$ fast enough and that EVERYONE should be entitled to 9 week work years with EI.

Only in your own Liberal pole riding world would these be signs of future fiscal restraint...

Even the provinces agree that 58 standards for EI are too many. The Liberals agreed to talk about how to improve EI this summer but the Tories have dug their heels in and said no change whatsoever. So where is the compromise in a minority Parliament?

As far as spending goes, the Tories announce and then re-announce and the announce again the same projects. You often wonder what the hold up is.

I think the Liberals should focus on the deficit and how to deal with that in a timely fashion. At the moment, the Tories won't talk about it because it won't be pretty talking about cuts or taxes.

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No I somehow doubt the CPC will be able to run an election without a concrete deficit reduction plan. Their typicaly airy fairy sometime in the future we'll return to surplus won't cut it. You can be sure that the opposition will be hammering the CPC on this point. Without Dion to distract the electorate, the CPC will actually have to come up with a plan prior to election day.

The Tories are always well prepared and this time will be no different. Been waiting 3 years to hear a Liberal plan. I guess his majesty hasn't gotten around to that yet.

He says " We can do better!". Ok, I'm listening, how will he do better? Better at what? Better at hiding the scam next time?

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The numbers supporting Minority government have been steadily rising... not the other way around. That doesn't mean the CPC aren't focusing on a Majority, but when didn't they?

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1918505

New poll suggests Canadians are warming to minority rule

53.9% Supportive; Election-ready Conservative MPs focused on majority

Emily Senger, National Post

Published: Sunday, August 23, 2009

Within the same article is this little nugget, MM!

"When asked why they viewed a minority as favourable, 54.8% of respondents said: "It's good because it forces parties to co-operate." But when asked if minority governments actually do co-operate, Mr. Nanos replied simply. "No," he said, laughing."

Things are still in flux, I would say.

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The Tories are always well prepared and this time will be no different. Been waiting 3 years to hear a Liberal plan. I guess his majesty hasn't gotten around to that yet.

He says " We can do better!". Ok, I'm listening, how will he do better? Better at what? Better at hiding the scam next time?

Wow good one, Ad Scam jibe. Seriously if the only reason you don't vote for a particular party is because they aren't embroiled in some type of scandal you're better off not voting, or perhaps voting for the Neo-Rhino party, word has it they're scandal free. The CPC has their share of scandal, and in terms of elections what's not current is a non starter.

Want to bring up some dirt on Trudeau while we're hitting these things at the height of their relevance?

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1) Being in government for an extended stretch - even a minority - is what Conservatives have wanted for many years. Harper's leadership will only be called into question when and if the Liberals form a government - or Harper decides on his own that it's time to step down. It's been a long time since a party had as much loyalty to, and faith in their leader. It's refreshing......especially when compared to the leadership-challenged Liberals.

I think that will be sorely tested if the Tories win fewer seats in an election.

Any party that is happy going backward rather forward is not long for government. Crucial issues of policy and leadership will have to be asked.

2) It's laughable to think that Harper would give Layton the time of day.....unless it involved making one or two completely irrelevant and meaningless comprimises so Jack could save a bit of face. Jack's in a gambler's spot...if he believes that Mr. Ignatieff will self-destruct on the campaign trail - which is a distinct possibility - then Jack could pick up more Left leaning votes....but if the Libs are actually competitive, he'll lose votes.

Given that Harper and Layton have met and rejected one another, I can't see a compromise happening.

Many NDP want an election. Layton will be tasked with performing well. If he makes gains, he is safe. If the party does less well, he is closer to the end of career as leader than the beginning.

3) Prorogueing Parliament - if that once in a lifetime "coalition" ever happens again, Harper won't prorogue - he'll ask the GG for an election.....but since Mr. Ignatieff seems to have distanced himself from that ploy, it won't happen. The public will not be fooled twice.

It is legal right to prorogue. If he believes that Canada shouldn't have an election, he can go to the Governor General and prorogue and not come back for up to a year.

It may work. The longer he is out of the House, the better his numbers might be.

There could be some anger about the tactic but I doubt it will anger the public unless there is a feeling that important issues are not being debated.

4) You said the Conservatives ran the last election without a platform until the last few days: nonsense. They've had the same platform for 5 years - they just haven't been able to get a lot of it through Parliament - Justice legislation (sentencing, protecting children), Accountability (still work to do e.g. Appointments Commission), Senate Reform, removing trade barriers and others.

They didn't release the direction they wanted to go along with costing until the last days of the election. If their policy and costing was already known, why didn't they simply release it on Day 1 and say "same old, same old?"

Simply saying everyone knows where we stand is running without a platform. It worked for the Tories this time because they ran against the Liberal's main policy and Dion.

It is unlikely to work this time since the big elephant in the room now is the deficit and the Tories don't have a policy on that one.

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Wow good one, Ad Scam jibe. Seriously if the only reason you don't vote for a particular party is because they aren't embroiled in some type of scandal you're better off not voting, or perhaps voting for the Neo-Rhino party, word has it they're scandal free. The CPC has their share of scandal, and in terms of elections what's not current is a non starter.

Want to bring up some dirt on Trudeau while we're hitting these things at the height of their relevance?

The stealing of a billion dollars of taxpayer money is always relevant. It's important that people never forget about the corruption that is rife within the Liberal Party of Canada.

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My best guess is that Iggy will become the next Prime Minister.

I think Iggy will only become the next prime minister if Jack Layton says so. I'm sure that Jack and he are already in discussions about a possible coallition. They won't talk about it during an election. In fact, I can all-but guarantee that whenever Ignatieff is asked about it he'll say something like "We're not considering anything like that. We're going for a majority." But he won't rule it out either.

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The stealing of a billion dollars of taxpayer money is always relevant. It's important that people never forget about the corruption that is rife within the Liberal Party of Canada.

Then make sure you write to Mr. Harper and ensure he makes this a major plank in his platform, given the late nature of their last platform they're more then likely open to anything they can toss in there. Good luck with winning an election on ad scam Mr. Canada.

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How do you imagine it IS going to get there? There has always been a split in beliefs in this country, more than sufficient, without Quebec tipping the balance every election, to prevent any party from having a majority. That hasn't changed, and it isn't going to change.

There has been a improvement in fortunes for the Liberals in Quebec according to polls and those that write for the media. Certainly membership and fundraising is up.

The BQ are the ultimate campaigners but I see some gains for the Liberals in that province based on present numbers.

Absent the Tories doing a meltdown, you guys need to give people a reason to vote for you, and you have yet to come up with anything. You keep trying stupid political ploys like the EI thing, but it's clear to most that you don't even believe in them, that they're just political games.

The election won't be on EI.

It is likely to focus on the deficit and management of the economy as it recovers.

The Tories don't even want to talk about the deficit because it raises some uncomfortable things for them such as what will they cut later on or what will they tax. It will be hard to argue the deficit will magically disappear.

We have not had that debate in Canada yet and it is worth having an election over to get that debate.

No, your only hope is when you kick Ignatieff out and bring in a Francophone leader. Then you'll get more seats in Quebec, and can hope that some kind of policy can pick up more seats in English Canada as well, enough to scrape (barely) into majority territory.

We had a Francophone leader but he was associated with the Clarity Act. That was a non-starter.

There may be someone in the future to step up but it isn't going to happen before the next election.

Maybe if you scaled back the blatant self-interest and phony policies and actually came up with something ot help the country instead of yourselves... but that ain't happening any time soon.

Harper was going to call a snap election prior to the term limit after something like the Olympics or G8 summit. He did it before. There was no reason to think he wasn't going to do it again.

The deficit and management of the economy during the recovery will be the issues.

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Think the focus will be on the future and how the Tories even when the economy was booming back in 2006 didn't seem to be able to keep their promises on spending.

How about this - how about coming out with some - what do they call those things - policies, you know, things you want to do when you get in power. I don't mean the lies you usually tell, but actual things you want to accomplish and how you plan to do it.

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How about this - how about coming out with some - what do they call those things - policies, you know, things you want to do when you get in power. I don't mean the lies you usually tell, but actual things you want to accomplish and how you plan to do it.

Pretty sure we will see exactly that. I don't believe they will make you happy even if they are policies you like.

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People don't seem to realize that the system has changed from the days when Liberals ran up majority after majority. They did that by taking almost every seat in Quebec every election. That's no longer happening. century.

Actually, it's much, much worse than that for the Liberals. Chretien's three majorities in 1993, 1997 and 2000 were mainly won in Ontario - although I agree that Quebec lent a helping hand by not electing any "Conservative" or NDP canadidates. People tend to forget the following:

1993: Liberals won 98 out of 99 seats

1997: Liberals won 101 out of 103 seats

2000: Liberals won 100 out of 103 seats

The Conservative/Reform/Alliance split allowed this to happen. Fear-mongering made it worse. Chretien calling elections when the opposition was weakest made it disastrous. This will never, ever, ever happen again.

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The Conservative/Reform/Alliance split allowed this to happen. Fear-mongering made it worse. Chretien calling elections when the opposition was weakest made it disastrous. This will never, ever, ever happen again.

No, now we have the Tories who will try to call elections when the Liberals are weakest. ha

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Sure it was. Sure Dion was a dud, through no fault of his own really. It's a shame really, he was quite a smart, honest and well intentioned man, just not particularly articulate, in English at least nor the least bit inspiring.

That and he had stupid policies, and his party had a history of repeatedly lying at elections - and was notoriously corrupt.

Be that as it may we both know the CPC didn't run on a platform that "was playing in the background"

Yeah, they did. They had new announcements every week.

They were the only party with no plan for the tanking economy that their apparent background platform was not addressing.

The economy wasn't tanking at the beginning of the election. It hit everyone at the same time, adn the best the Liberals and NDP could come up with was to damn the Tories for not having a huge, expensive answer ready to the world economy tanking. Neither party had ANY idea of what to do. Neither party presented any means they would have used to combat the tanking economy. They still haven't. The best they could come up with was a big, expensive incentive program to help tide some businesses over during the recession, which they got.

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I think Iggy will only become the next prime minister if Jack Layton says so. I'm sure that Jack and he are already in discussions about a possible coallition. They won't talk about it during an election. In fact, I can all-but guarantee that whenever Ignatieff is asked about it he'll say something like "We're not considering anything like that. We're going for a majority." But he won't rule it out either.

I agree completely with you.

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That's the nature of minority governments. They generally don't last too much longer than a year, the exception being Harper's term from 2006-2008, to date in our history that's the longest surviving minority government.

Maybeso, but most Canadians are used to long periods of stability. They didn't particularly like having an election after two years. They're going to like having another just one year later even less. That's why the Liberals kept trying to come up with some noble excuse for why they simply HAD to bring down the government, be it EI or incentive spending or whatnot. They've clearly not found anything and have given up trying to disguise what is clearly nothing more than a quest for power.

I just wish they could for once have the honesty to admit it instead of making stupid mouth noises about how they have to save Canada and how they have to stop the evil Conservatives from... uh, whatever. They should just say "Look, we really don't have any better ideas on how to govern, and we really aren't planning on changing much. We just want to be the government so we can ride in limousines and hand the pork out to our buddies."

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Then make sure you write to Mr. Harper and ensure he makes this a major plank in his platform, given the late nature of their last platform they're more then likely open to anything they can toss in there. Good luck with winning an election on ad scam Mr. Canada.

Nobody said it should be included in the campaign. It doesn't need to be. People know what they're getting when they get a Liberal government from now on.

The Liberals have never led the polls with Ignatieff at the helm and you people think he's going to magically win somehow?

Outside the major urban centres the Liberals are dead. They even almost lost a few 905 and 416 ridings last time. They're lucky they have the seats the do.

Edited by Mr.Canada
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