American and Canadian Health Care..?

Oleg Bach · August 10, 2009

Watching a bit of the debate going on state side over how to generate the reformation of "health care" - looks like a dream that will never materialize. Firstly, if you have a system that is entrenched and institutionalized that blatantly states - Give me your money or I will kill you with neglect and ignorance...where the new breed of doctor enters into the profession because it is lucrative and holds social status- when not so far in the past - a doctor entered the profession because they had a certain set of religious values and were motivated by benevolence...a doctor that would actually travel to your house - prosperous or poor - and would sit at your bed side and make his best effort to heal you.

NOW you have doctors that are millonares - CEOs of private insurance companies in America that make between ten and twenty million a year in salaries. To bring about reform is impossible - that is like asking the rich to take a pay cut...this goes against EVERYTHING that America has ever stood for...so you in America had better just leave things as they are - a system that is akin to a doctor holding a gun to your head and saying - "Make me rich or I will shoot" --- How in hell are you ever going to get rid of that factor? In Canada it is the same..exactly the same - between big pharma and millionare healers - we are no different that YOU - to the south - America will NEVER have a system that heals all at minimum cost - because you are a secularist profit taking nation - a nation that is so Darwinistic that they eat the sick so one small segment of the population stays fat and comfortable..The America system is auto-cannibalism in full swing..and that will not change - Unless you remove greed - and greed is your god.

Bonam · August 10, 2009

You say "for profit" as if it is a dirty word. It is not. Profit is the incentive, what drives people and corporations to accomplish the most that they can. Why would doctors or anyone else work for less than they are worth? No one is holding a gun to anyone's head. Rather, they expect to be compensated for their time, effort, and services, just as people in any other profession do. Being a doctor is a very demanding line of work, otherwise there would be many more doctors, supply would be higher, and the cost would go down.

Besides, an ever growing portion of the cost is not the doctors but the continuously advancing pieces of medical technology. Whether it's MRIs, robotic surgery systems, PET scanners, medical radionuclides, proton beam therapies, etc, these things take a lot of money, while allowing an ever greater range of medical problems to be successfully addressed. If not for the profit in this industry, what would motivate corporations and institutions to continue their advances in such technology?

bush_cheney2004 · August 10, 2009

.... Being a doctor is a very demanding line of work, otherwise there would be many more doctors, supply would be higher, and the cost would go down.
Besides, an ever growing portion of the cost is not the doctors but the continuously advancing pieces of medical technology. Whether it's MRIs, robotic surgery systems, PET scanners, medical radionuclides, proton beam therapies, etc, these things take a lot of money, while allowing an ever greater range of medical problems to be successfully addressed. If not for the profit in this industry, what would motivate corporations and institutions to continue their advances in such technology?

Thank you for pointing this out.....many people want miracles and they want somebody else to pay for them.

Edited August 10, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

Oleg Bach · August 10, 2009

"Supply would be higher ( supply of doctors) and costs would go down" - to para-phrase...the writer is stating that because there are not enough doctors that if there were more doctors - that costs would go down...does this not go totally against that idotic "supply and demand" theory that capitalist seem to love - that the more 'customers' you have the more you charge them instead of less - supply and demand is the eccense of western greed - If I sold ten apples at 10 cents a pop - I would be happy to sell 1000 apples at 10 cents an apple - but NOOOO...this greedish economics states that if they sell 1000 apples that each apple sould sell at 50 dollars a piece....I could never undersand the long term inflationary and unsustainable value of the supply and demand theory ---If America is going to have a 300 million people with soicalized health care - or private - costs should go down not up.

Bonam · August 10, 2009

"Supply would be higher ( supply of doctors) and costs would go down" - to para-phrase...the writer is stating that because there are not enough doctors that if there were more doctors - that costs would go down...does this not go totally against that idotic "supply and demand" theory that capitalist seem to love - that the more 'customers' you have the more you charge them instead of less - supply and demand is the eccense of western greed - If I sold ten apples at 10 cents a pop - I would be happy to sell 1000 apples at 10 cents an apple - but NOOOO...this greedish economics states that if they sell 1000 apples that each apple sould sell at 50 dollars a piece....I could never undersand the long term inflationary and unsustainable value of the supply and demand theory ---If America is going to have a 300 million people with soicalized health care - or private - costs should go down not up.

I suggest you revisit the "theory" of supply and demand, cause you seem very confused.

benny · August 10, 2009

Healing for profit is the highest form of good because our healing capacities are our most precious and productive capital.

Oleg Bach · August 10, 2009

I suggest you revisit the "theory" of supply and demand, cause you seem very confused.

Let me try again - Is it based on the more product you sell and the more demand there is for that market and the more units sold then the MORE you charge..okay - in other words - instead of taking a civlized profit and avoiding inflation - you attempt to take a more and more obscene profit -- the more you profit - causing eventual collapse of the market though inflation - I think I have it right.

benny · August 10, 2009

Let me try again - Is it based on the more product you sell and the more demand there is for that market and the more units sold then the MORE you charge..okay - in other words - instead of taking a civlized profit and avoiding inflation - you attempt to take a more and more obscene profit -- the more you profit - causing eventual collapse of the market though inflation - I think I have it right.

In medicine, profits come essentially from patent laws.

GostHacked · August 10, 2009

Let me try again - Is it based on the more product you sell and the more demand there is for that market and the more units sold then the MORE you charge..okay - in other words - instead of taking a civlized profit and avoiding inflation - you attempt to take a more and more obscene profit -- the more you profit - causing eventual collapse of the market though inflation - I think I have it right.

For the most part Canada's health system is socialist in nature, so I can't see the profits being made like private health care. I won't say there are NO profits, just not as large as they would be in a private system.

Oleg Bach · August 10, 2009

For the most part Canada's health system is socialist in nature, so I can't see the profits being made like private health care. I won't say there are NO profits, just not as large as they would be in a private system.

Recently my old X wife - or shall I say -part time wife - went off for some testing on a twisted knee - MRI - xray - medication..follow up visit - and with no real healing results other than - rest the damned thing and let it heal -- there are doctors in Ontairo - who run though as many patients as possible through their clinics daily - and if you are on some sort of medication for say a heart condition etc..they like you to come in and give them as many OHIP payments as possible - when a call to the pharmacy that costs nothing would do - but no -- the want the 500 bucks for merely having you walk in the door and leave - Take the abuse of the system by doctors - and multiply it by a few thousand and you have a real big public bill - and the doc has his second Mercedes---It's about money with these guys.

M.Dancer · August 10, 2009

For the most part Canada's health system is socialist in nature, so I can't see the profits being made like private health care. I won't say there are NO profits, just not as large as they would be in a private system.

I would suggest there are huge profits made in Canadian healthcare. Whether it is a doctor's private practice or GE delivery of a new imaging device right to the amoxicillian prescribed...

....

I think the of the few differences between us and the US is the private for profit hospital and the HMO. Never the less, medicine is gbig business.

benny · August 10, 2009

Recently my old X wife - or shall I say -part time wife - went off for some testing on a twisted knee - MRI - xray - medication..follow up visit - and with no real healing results other than - rest the damned thing and let it heal -- there are doctors in Ontairo - who run though as many patients as possible through their clinics daily - and if you are on some sort of medication for say a heart condition etc..they like you to come in and give them as many OHIP payments as possible - when a call to the pharmacy that costs nothing would do - but no -- the want the 500 bucks for merely having you walk in the door and leave - Take the abuse of the system by doctors - and multiply it by a few thousand and you have a real big public bill - and the doc has his second Mercedes---It's about money with these guys.

Physicians cannot at the same time recommend rest and endless visits.

Oleg Bach · August 10, 2009

Physicians cannot at the same time recommend rest and endless visits.

Well _ looked at the swollen knee - and suggested - stay off it and let the soft tissue injury heal - and it got better...but - what made it worse was struggling to get to medical appointments - constantly re-injuring the joint that was the problem - then I added up the cost to the system - at least 10 thousand was generated for someone out there somewhere..so the sick are commodities - that's my whole point.

benny · August 10, 2009

Well _ looked at the swollen knee - and suggested - stay off it and let the soft tissue injury heal - and it got better...but - what made it worse was struggling to get to medical appointments - constantly re-injuring the joint that was the problem - then I added up the cost to the system - at least 10 thousand was generated for someone out there somewhere..so the sick are commodities - that's my whole point.

Struggling to get medical appointments signals relatively low profits for physicians today.

Edited August 10, 2009 by benny

Oleg Bach · August 10, 2009

Struggling to get medical appointments signals relatively low profits for physicians today.

You have to "struggle" to get an appointment because the physician is so back logged - that he is to busy making huge profits though huge volumes if of incoming patients that - he simply chokes on the money coming in and needs time to swallow - so you wait till he clears his throat and then the wait time if over-- they operate on the numbers to generate wealth - the more - the merrier the richer... It's out of hand and complex. Habitualist wealth creation is the name of the game - and with society sending the doc the cheques - He knows one thing - if he processes 10 thousand patients per year - He can justify his costs of operation - adjust the taxing - and be very very rich - sure the work is hard - but being greedy is work.

benny · August 10, 2009

You have to "struggle" to get an appointment because the physician is so back logged - that he is to busy making huge profits

Wait is explained by higher profits in non-medical professions.

GostHacked · August 10, 2009

I would suggest there are huge profits made in Canadian healthcare. Whether it is a doctor's private practice or GE delivery of a new imaging device right to the amoxicillian prescribed...
....

I think the of the few differences between us and the US is the private for profit hospital and the HMO. Never the less, medicine is gbig business.

I won't doubt that money is being made in Canada's health care system, but I don't see how it can be huge.

Oleg

Recently my old X wife - or shall I say -part time wife - went off for some testing on a twisted knee - MRI - xray - medication..follow up visit - and with no real healing results other than - rest the damned thing and let it heal

Good advice, staying off it and letting it heal, or you risk more injury. Plain and simple. Unless you want to have her thrown on the table right away for surgery.

there are doctors in Ontairo - who run though as many patients as possible through their clinics daily - and if you are on some sort of medication for say a heart condition etc..they like you to come in and give them as many OHIP payments as possible - when a call to the pharmacy that costs nothing would do

Many factors contribute to this. Like the huge shortage of qualified doctors at our disoposal. So the doctors that are in service are up to their necks with patients, and most likely won't be accepting new patients. I am happy to say I found a good family doctor recently. This medical practice opened up about a year ago, and they are now starting to get overwhelmed with new patients looking for doctors. There is a group of about 20 doctors that operate in this facility.

And besides, you should never be taking a Pharmacists advice except when you are prescribed medication by your family doctor.

- but no -- the want the 500 bucks for merely having you walk in the door and leave - Take the abuse of the system by doctors - and multiply it by a few thousand and you have a real big public bill - and the doc has his second Mercedes---It's about money with these guys.

M.Dancer · August 10, 2009

I won't doubt that money is being made in Canada's health care system, but I don't see how it can be huge.

$171.9 billion isn't small change. Out of that, 51 billion is spent on private healthcare.

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp...dia_13nov2008_e

bush_cheney2004 · August 10, 2009

$171.9 billion isn't small change. Out of that, 51 billion is spent on private healthcare.
http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp...dia_13nov2008_e

Just as it should be.....medical professionals did not sign up to be Mother Theresa.

benny · August 10, 2009

Just as it should be.....medical professionals did not sign up to be Mother Theresa.

But Mother Theresa remains the best example of a person who has not sacrificed her life at fast food joints.

bush_cheney2004 · August 10, 2009

But Mother Theresa remains the best example of a person who has not sacrificed her life at fast food joints.

And Ghandi remains the best example of a person who ony buys Sears Kenmore appliances and Craftsman tools.

Shady · August 10, 2009

Let me try again

Don't bother. You obviously don't understand the concept of supply and demand. The more doctors, the less they're in demand, the lower the price. It's pretty simple, except apparently for you. Instead you like to go on and on, as if on some shakespearean soliloquy.

benny · August 10, 2009

And Ghandi remains the best example of a person who ony buys Sears Kenmore appliances and Craftsman tools.

And Gandhi remains the best example of a person who shuns unsafe working tools rather.

Craig1 · August 11, 2009

If you figure out all the money in taxes (millions) you pay into healthcare in your life time and what you actually use your being ripped off. you dont even have the option to the treatment you choose but some other socialized one where your end up waiting 6 months just to get in to see a specialist when time is crutial. Im all for privatization get rid of the political waste and be done with it put money back in peoples pockets and give them a choice not this socialist commy BS we have now.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Craig1

benny · August 11, 2009

If you figure out all the money in taxes (millions) you pay into healthcare in your life time and what you actually use your being ripped off. you dont even have the option to the treatment you choose but some other socialized one where your end up waiting 6 months just to get in to see a specialist when time is crutial. Im all for privatization get rid of the political waste and be done with it put money back in peoples pockets and give them a choice not this socialist commy BS we have now.

You could be born with severe handicaps.