bush_cheney2004 Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Previous references have been made to Michael Ignatieff's public speeches abroad where he invokes the citizenship of best convenience. Here is some actual audio from one such speech, where he does just that: From "Living Fearlessly in a Fearless World" Ignatieff Commencement Address to Whitman College (USA), 2004 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0pR0BFOxqE&NR=1 Should Mr. Ignatieff become PM of Canada, it will be a stroke in favor to U.S. interests.....giving rise to the term....Super Poodle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Previous references have been made to Michael Ignatieff's public speeches abroad where he invokes the citizenship of best convenience. Here is some actual audio from one such speech, where he does just that: From "Living Fearlessly in a Fearless World" Ignatieff Commencement Address to Whitman College (USA), 2004 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0pR0BFOxqE&NR=1 Should Mr. Ignatieff become PM of Canada, it will be a stroke in favor to U.S. interests.....giving rise to the term....Super Poodle. "Living Fearlessly in a Fearless World" - what the hell does that title mean? Sure he is fearless - and living in a world governed by fear..take away his credetials..his credit cards - stick him at the bottom of the heap and he will suffer the same fear as all of us mere mortals feel. Ignatieff is an internationalist - just like most of the high ranking corporates and acedemics..all those "with out boarders" jerks.. You have to be loyal to family - nation...I think he is to far gone at this point for that. He knows damned well if the world was fearless - there would be no place for people like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 .... Ignatieff is an internationalist - just like most of the high ranking corporates and acedemics..all those "with out boarders" jerks.. You have to be loyal to family - nation...I think he is to far gone at this point for that.... Well, at least he will get another book out of the experience (but Canadians will pay more for it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Well, at least he will get another book out of the experience (but Canadians will pay more for it). It's like debate - you pour water from one glass into another then back again and again - and no one gets to drink. Hobbists - adventuring tweets...these guys have never sat down and actually formulated a real thought of their own - If it's not in the manual--it does not exist for them...all fanatics get their instructions from others - form books - look at the stupified Trotskyites ---rich ones - who are still indoctrinated by some book they read in university and still after 30 years have not questioned it - or fundamentalists who never question parts of scripture that make no sense - If it be a Christian fanatic - a Zionist one - a Muslim one - etc - all act under the influence of some prior published thinker....theory is speculation and human imagination....Iggy is simply walking theory....give me the facts sir "nothing but the facts>" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 like... you've quoted and referred to this speech many times in the past... now a dedicated thread. Slow day, hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 No big deal. It does happen sometimes if you live among a people that you begin, even if only subconsciously, to identify with it. It may have been a matter ofstylistics to help the listeners more closely identify with him. No big deal there. What I'd be more concerned about is his one time support for the Iraq War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 like... you've quoted and referred to this speech many times in the past... now a dedicated thread. Slow day, hey? Always enough time to salute another American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ouch! That audio is going to play very badly during the next election. I wonder if Liberal's are second gussing their party's nomination of an American to be Prime Minister! If there's video of this speech, the next election is as good as over. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 What I'd be more concerned about is his one time support for the Iraq War. I am not prepared to condemn Ignatieff over his support for the Iraq war. And, I don't believe he was truly contrite when he said his initial support was a mistake, as he so laboriously tried to explain in his New York Times exposé. IMO, his supposed reversal of position was nothing more than an attempt to align himself with doves, in effect wanting to position himself as part of the mainstream in Canada and abroad opposed to the Iraq war. He cloaked it as a change of heart which I am not convinced is genuine. At one time, he may have been an American wannabe. This too I don't begrudge him. What I am looking for from Ignatieff is an insight into where he and his Liberals want to take this country that is significantly different from the Conservative view. On that score, he has not been accommodating or convincing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Previous references have been made to Michael Ignatieff's public speeches abroad where he invokes the citizenship of best convenience. Here is some actual audio from one such speech, where he does just that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0pR0BFOxqE&NR=1Should Mr. Ignatieff become PM of Canada, it will be a stroke in favor to U.S. interests.....giving rise to the term....Super Poodle.Very patriotic American video. He can't run for President of the U.S. but he should. Certainly not for PM of Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Always enough time to salute another American.Don't at least some Canadians start off by comparing their country to the U.S.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) Don't at least some Canadians start off by comparing their country to the U.S.? Why do that when the magic of a cloaking device can give you the real thing ?! Edited August 9, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Just a point here. I used to call myself an Ottawan, then a Victorian, then a Montrealer, and now an Ottawan again. So, does this mean I'm a traitor who shouldn't be allowed to participate in the democratic process anywhere just because I've moved a little and developed an affinity for the local population? If anything, I'd be concerned with the guy who is incapable of developing an affinity for his new cultural environment. And what about double standards? We keep harking on immigrants to 'become Canadian', yet expect a Canadian who'd lived abroad to remain Canadian? Looking at it that way, Ignatieff's ability to develop an emotional affinity with the people surrounding him is a positive. There are many issues I have with Ignatieff, mainly with his excessively hawkish militaristic stance and a few other points. But his ability to identify with his local or national community is certainly not among them. Why can't we focus on the issues instead of character assassination? Canadian politics at its lowest again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 ...Looking at it that way, Ignatieff's ability to develop an emotional affinity with the people surrounding him is a positive. That is certainly a very positive spin. Still, Dion was hounded for alleged French citizenship...guess he is not so smooth. There are many issues I have with Ignatieff, mainly with his excessively hawkish militaristic stance and a few other points. But his ability to identify with his local or national community is certainly not among them. Why can't we focus on the issues instead of character assassination? Canadian politics at its lowest again. It's not character assassination...just an observation about very curious behavior and liberties taken for the sake of a speech in a foreign country. I dare say that any American posing this way in front of a Canadian audience would not be so easily forgiven either. Ignatieff is a skilled writer and couls have easily writtem an inclusive speech without powering up his cloaking device. Hell, maybe is is an American citizen and Canada just doesn't know it. Would that matter? I think it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 So what if he were an American citizen, as long as he's a Canadian citizen too. All that matters is that his constituents voted for him. OK, maybe not too bright of his constituents to have done that, but they have spoken none-the-less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 So what if he were an American citizen, as long as he's a Canadian citizen too. All that matters is that his constituents voted for him. OK, maybe not too bright of his constituents to have done that, but they have spoken none-the-less. Does he have to be a Canadian citizen at all? What would it matter for "global man"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Does he have to be a Canadian citizen at all? What would it matter for "global man"? So what specific policy statements of his do you have an issue with, and how does his citizenship affect that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 So what specific policy statements of his do you have an issue with, and how does his citizenship affect that? Oh, there are any number of issues for Ignatieff and the application of geo-political power, which is specifically why I think he cloaks himself for convenience. He writes of brokering such power as if he has a role, even if only invented to sell more books. That's what is so ironic, eschewing nationalism even while assuming to be an American. Ignatieff has no real relevance when it comes to policies, as he is still a lesser god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Well, Iggy's not in my riding anyway, so it's not like I have any way in it anyway I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 There are many issues I have with Ignatieff, mainly with his excessively hawkish militaristic stance and a few other points. But his ability to identify with his local or national community is certainly not among them. Why can't we focus on the issues instead of character assassination? Canadian politics at its lowest again.He has said he hoped he'd be able to reclaim his American teaching job if politics in Canada didn't work out too well. Isn't there a problem with someone not willing th throw in their lot even with their own country and who wants to lead that country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 He has said he hoped he'd be able to reclaim his American teaching job if politics in Canada didn't work out too well. Isn't there a problem with someone not willing th throw in their lot even with their own country and who wants to lead that country? I see nothing wrong with it in the least. What's the difference whether he works in Canada or the US? He'll be paying his taxes and making a contribution to society either way, wouldn't he? What if an Ontarian moves to Qubec to work? Does that make him a traitor to Ontario? Should Canadians forfeit potential opportunities abroad just so they can be Canadian? Some Canadians who may have become successful abroad owing to their particular skills being in demand there might not succeed in Canada since those same skills might not be in as great a demand here. Should we sacrifice opportunity in the name of blind nationalism? If a Canadian university really wants him, could it not offer him a competitive salary? Now don't get me wrong; I'm all for people paying their taxes, and have no issue with raising taxes on the more successful to help the less fortunate. But at the end of the day, we have the freedom to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 If he truly loves Canada then he wouldn't go to the US for the sake of making more money, but work here and help elevate the standards of education in a Canadian university. This wil be just one more nail in his political coffin. He won't make Prime Minister. Easy pickins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 If he truly loves Canada then he wouldn't go to the US for the sake of making more money, but work here and help elevate the standards of education in a Canadian university. This wil be just one more nail in his political coffin. He won't make Prime Minister. Easy pickins. I've worked aborad too. Does that make me less Canadian? In fact, I'd even done some volunteer work on the side while abroad. Does that make me hate Canada even more? A person may want to make more money so that he can give more of his time and money, which would be a positive trait. I'm not saying this is the case with Iggy; I'm just saying though that working abroad to make more money is not bad depending on what he intends to do with that money. I don't kow what he intends to do with it, but tht's his business. The only thing that would matter to me if he were in my riding is his policy stance, which is not too impressive at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 And again, a person who leaves Ontario to work in Quebec, does that mean he doesn't like Ontario? Same parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 And again, a person who leaves Ontario to work in Quebec, does that mean he doesn't like Ontario? Same parallel. I think you're missing the point. It's obvious you like Ignatieff and so you'll cut him some slack about being out of the country so much of his life. However, politics is not a courtroom, where we can defend with technicalities. It's all about perceptions. How will the average Canadian feel? Remember, Ignatieff didn't just spend a few years in the US. He spent almost his entire adult life! What would someone's chances be of becoming premier of Quebec, if although he was born there he had grown up in Ontario? I'm starting to agree. Once the campaign writ is dropped the Tories are going to have a field day with this stuff! It's just the sort of thing to make the ordinary Canadian feel a total disconnect with Ignatieff. His speeches in the US are guaranteed to fan the flames of anti-Americanism latent in us all. The Liberals seem to value academia more than the common touch. They choose philosopher kings and not a barber shop sage. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. It's just the way it is. To many Canadians Ignatieff is going to look more American than Canadian, or at least not an ordinary Canadian. This WILL hurt him! How much? I'm not certain. Still, it's definitely a weak spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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