Socialism 101

Keepitsimple · August 6, 2009

Here's an interesting tidbit that showed up in my Inbox. It puts forward a very interesting example and how the use of the "lowest common denominator" can drag a society down. As you move further Left on the political spectrum, adherants become more and more feverish about sharing everything equally - with the exception of those people who wield the power of course.

Now, as to whether this professor ever really "conducted" this experiment - I can't really prove - but it makes for an interesting read:

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class.
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That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that.

punked · August 6, 2009

Here's an interesting tidbit that showed up in my Inbox. It puts forward a very interesting example and how the use of the "lowest common denominator" can drag a society down. As you move further Left on the political spectrum, adherants become more and more feverish about sharing everything equally - with the exception of those people who wield the power of course.
Now, as to whether this professor ever really "conducted" this experiment - I can't really prove - but it makes for an interesting read:

Stupidest thing I ever read. This proves why grades shouldn't be average becuase you deserve a F.

Bonam · August 6, 2009

Indeed. A good anecdote to illustrate the failings of socialism, though I doubt it could have actually happened.

Machjo · August 6, 2009

I think what's described above is simplistic at best. Extreme socialist is certainly harmful, but remember even in real life students do help each other voluntarily as friends without any expectation of reward. People do voluntarily give of their wealth to charity. The example above fails to acknowledge that.

Alta4ever · August 6, 2009

I think what's described above is simplistic at best. Extreme socialist is certainly harmful, but remember even in real life students do help each other voluntarily as friends without any expectation of reward. People do voluntarily give of their wealth to charity. The example above fails to acknowledge that.

There is a diiference between charity and socialism.

punked · August 6, 2009

Know what I find funny? That in Canada those students who flunked out of that guys class, the government would have been paying half their education costs.....Ohhhhhh noooooo scary socialism.

Riverwind · August 6, 2009

I think what's described above is simplistic at best. Extreme socialist is certainly harmful, but remember even in real life students do help each other voluntarily as friends without any expectation of reward. People do voluntarily give of their wealth to charity. The example above fails to acknowledge that.

Both of your examples are cases where the giver has to choice to give or not. The premise behind socialism is people must be forced to give the fruits of their labour to others. It is the mandatory nature of socialized giving that destroys the incentive to excel if the amount mandatory giving is too high.

Shady · August 6, 2009

Stupidest thing I ever read.

Probably because it exposes socialism as the fraud that it is. Socialism only spreads misery "equally." And makes people feel "better" for it.

Riverwind · August 6, 2009

Know what I find funny? That in Canada those students who flunked out of that guys class, the government would have been paying half their education costs.....Ohhhhhh noooooo scary socialism.

Obviously this is an extreme example which illustrates the flaws in socialism. I am sure someone could come up with a similar example that illustrates the different flaws in unfettered capitalism. All such examples do is illustrate the need for balance.

punked · August 6, 2009

Probably because it exposes socialism as the fraud that it is. Socialism only spreads misery "equally." And makes people feel "better" for it.

I have never been for socialism, I have however been for making the government work for everyone. I like the free market as long as it is regulated, and is taxed. I like social programs, I like safety nets so people don't die in the streets. I am for the government taking on projects when they are the only ones big enough to take them on. I am not for selling off crown cooperations that work, and I am not for buying up private industry that doesn't.

See the difference between me and a socialist is I am not ready to break the system in order to fix it, I am ready to work with in a flawed system to make it better.

Smallc · August 6, 2009

Why is this here?

eyeball · August 6, 2009

when government takes...

Lectures on the evils of not being a right-winger always crack me up. Usually these are from conservatives that are also busy trying to concentrate more and more power into fewer and fewer hands - just like they do with money - usually at the cost of individual civil liberties.

Somehow I just don't think there's anything to be gained by having a smaller government that is also more powerful. What's the point?

Alta4ever · August 6, 2009

Lectures on the evils of not being a right-winger always crack me up. Usually these are from conservatives that are also busy trying to concentrate more and more power into fewer and fewer hands - just like they do with money - usually at the cost of individual civil liberties.
Somehow I just don't think there's anything to be gained by having a smaller government that is also more powerful. What's the point?

Its not about concetrating power it is about being rewarded for your work, and having the risk and the potential reward from it.

punked · August 6, 2009

Its not about concetrating power it is about being rewarded for your work, and having the risk and the potential reward from it.

And concentrating the wealth so no one with out it can be successful right?

Michael Hardner · August 6, 2009

Smallc, I agree it shouldn't be here... or anywhere on MLW.

A thread that equates paying any tax at all with the most extreme socialism possible is overly simplistic and not of much use except to make people feel smarter than they really are.

I have a story about an orphan who scraped his knee, and then was shot by the government because he needed help and the government shouldn't have to help anybody and that means that all capitalism is therefore abject evil.

Smallc · August 6, 2009

Haha, nice. Though I agree with you, I think this should at least be moved to political philosophy.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Smallc

Alta4ever · August 6, 2009

And concentrating the wealth so no one with out it can be successful right?

Funny I have had no trouble concentrating a little wealth, and started with nothing. If you are willing to take a little risk, use your brain, and combine it with hard work, you will be successful.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

Winston Churchill

punked · August 6, 2009

Funny I have had no trouble concentrating a little wealth, and started with nothing. If you are willing to take a little risk, use your brain, and combine it with hard work, you will be successful.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

Winston Churchill

Funny we live in a mixed economy. The government owns plenty of things in this country. Government provided Health care, Education, Military, CBC, Police, Fire, Via rail, crown cooperations. The government provides social safety nets like EI, welfare, and a pension plan. They legislate things like discrimination by employers and regulate the banks. Be careful there is scary socialist all around you best you not go out your house.

I am glade the system which I love a mixed social free market system you have done so well in Alta.

Alta4ever · August 6, 2009

Funny we live in a mixed economy. The government owns plenty of things in this country. Government provided Health care, Education, Military, CBC, Police, Fire, Via rail, crown cooperations. The government provides social safety nets like EI, welfare, and a pension plan. They legislate things like discrimination by employers and regulate the banks. Be careful there is scary socialist all around you best you not go out your house.
I am glade the system which I love a mixed social free market system you have done so well in Alta.

It cost more to travel via rail then west jet, the CBC is only good for watching the NHL, if you like hockey, (TSN would pay a lot more for the rights and contribute taxes, rather then suck them). The Pension Plan is a fraud, I would be able to receive better return on the money if I invested my own contributions, and healthcare is in a sorry state, I rather have a lower tax rate and pay a private insurance company for coverage. Legislation will never end the saying its not what you know its who you know in the employment field. Those who move up the career ladder typically are those who are good a networking.

Much of this costs us taxpayers much more then it needs to. there is no need for crown corporations.

Shady · August 6, 2009

The government owns plenty of things in this country.

Yes it does. Plenty of things that could be done by the private sector.

Government provided Health care

The Government doesn't need to be the sole proprietor of such a service.

Education

Private schools educated students better than public schools.

CBC

A complete waste of taxpayer money. Unless the use of public funds to out-bid private networks for the Simpsons and Hockey Night In Canada counts as being useful.

They legislate things like discrimination by employers and regulate the banks.

Government in general doesn't necessarily mean socialism. Nobody is arguing that discrimination legislation is socialism.

punked · August 6, 2009

It cost more to travel via rail then west jet, the CBC is only good for watching the NHL, if you like hockey, (TSN would pay a lot more for the rights and contribute taxes, rather then suck them). The Pension Plan is a fraud, I would be able to receive better return on the money if I invested my own contributions, and healthcare is in a sorry state, I rather have a lower tax rate and pay a private insurance company for coverage. Legislation will never end the saying its not what you know its who you know in the employment field. Those who move up the career ladder typically are those who are good a networking.
Much of this costs us taxpayers much more then it needs to. there is no need for crown corporations.

So that money you made was in a mixed system. You were just telling us how wonderful our system was and using your own success in it as proof. Now your success was despite this horrid system we have? I can't fallow your flip flops.

Alta4ever · August 6, 2009

So that money you made was in a mixed system. You were just telling us how wonderful our system was and using your own success in it as proof. Now your success was despite this horrid system we have? I can't fallow your flip flops.

I have not ever collected ei or welfare, I very rarely use Canada post mostly courier service because it is superiour and faster. the medical system has failed my family on more then one occasion, the policing is usless where I live it takes 45 minutes to respond, if they do respond. I have never had a job provided for me by the state, nor would I want one. Too many regulations get in the way and are expensive as you as bank customer have to pay more so the banks can afford to comply with them. (Not that I am against all regulation just over regulation).

So yes I have managed to get ahead despite the government getting in my way.

punked · August 6, 2009

Private schools educated students better than public schools.

Please run on cutting public education. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

punked · August 6, 2009

I have not ever collected ei or welfare, I very rarely use Canada post mostly courier service because it is superiour and faster. the medical system has failed my family on more then one occasion, the policing is usless where I live it takes 45 minutes to respond, if they do respond. I have never had a job provided for me by the state, nor would I want one. Too many regulations get in the way and are expensive as you as bank customer have to pay more so the banks can afford to comply with them. (Not that I am against all regulation just over regulation).
So yes I have managed to get ahead despite the government getting in my way.

Just becuase you don't use or don't like social services doesn't mean you have not thrived in this very system. You said it yourself the system has helped make you rich. You were just saying that. Good for you. Good for Canada.

Alta4ever · August 6, 2009

Just becuase you don't use or don't like social services doesn't mean you have not thrived in this very system. You said it yourself the system has helped make you rich. You were just saying that. Good for you. Good for Canada.

The system has done nothing because I have not utilzed it, and those that rely on it go nowhere.