sarah palin

[bush_cheney2004]

the POTUS needs no Congress in order to destroy the world -- Sarah Palin would not go down in history as anything if she destroyed humanity's ability to record history

This doesn't make any sense.....the POTUS cannot destroy humanity or its ability to record history. Hell, some presidents even taped all their Oval Office conversations!

[Guthrie]

This doesn't make any sense.....the POTUS cannot destroy humanity or its ability to record history. Hell, some presidents even taped all their Oval Office conversations!

in the age of nuclear weapons, it is nearly a sin to demonstrate such ignorance ---

let us leave aside the air-force - this world could be destroyed by the nuclear weapons contained only in Americas nuclear submarine fleet -

properly placed, the nuclear weapons of the United States alone could leave the earth uninhabitable for hundreds years -- forcing the launch of the entire US nuclear arsenal would be unequivocably, the end of humanity - the extinction of homo sapien

only village idiots should be allowed to laugh at the potential for extinction of homo sapien

[bush_cheney2004]

only village idiots should be allowed to laugh at the potential for extinction of homo sapien

No, only inexperienced idiots would make such dire claims. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about beyond Hollywood entertainment media, let alone a deep understanding of blast, heat, and radiation. Nuclear weapons are not "properly placed" to achieve your fantasy scenario.....what utter nonsense.

Be afraid...be very afraid.

Edited August 7, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Bonam]

No, only inexperienced idiots would make such dire claims. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about beyond Hollywood entertainment media, let alone a deep understanding of blast, heat, and radiation.

Be afraid...be very afraid.

He's right in that if the US (or Russia) detonated all of their nuclear warheads on Earth, it would likely make the entire planet uninhabitable for quite a long duration. It is likely humans would be able to survive in some shielded, underground facilities, established by some of the world's nations during the time of the Cold War, so it would not be quite extinction but pretty close.

Obviously the immediate radiation, heat, and shockwaves would not affect the majority of the Earth's surface. But the radioactive fallout and the nuclear winter would be omnipresent.

That being said, no leader that could possibly rise to the position of having control of the US nuclear arsenal would be insane enough to use it in such a way. Not even in the USSR/Russia, where leaders were/are variously xenophobic, paranoid, autocratic, mentally slow, deranged, naive, etc, were any of them crazy enough to do such a thing.

[bush_cheney2004]

He's right in that if the US (or Russia) detonated all of their nuclear warheads on Earth, it would likely make the entire planet uninhabitable for quite a long duration. It is likely humans would be able to survive in some shielded, underground facilities, established by some of the world's nations during the time of the Cold War, so it would not be quite extinction but pretty close.

Nope...not even close. There would be huge losses of life and increased diseases from ionizing radiation, but not extinction. Many of the warheads are directed at enemy defenses and missile sites, not just population centers. Fallout and prevailing weather conditions are very well understood......how did so many Americans survive above ground testing with hundreds of weapons?

Obviously the immediate radiation, heat, and shockwaves would not affect the majority of the Earth's surface. But the radioactive fallout and the nuclear winter would be omnipresent.

It already is "omnipresent", from many sources, including the sun.

That being said, no leader that could possibly rise to the position of having control of the US nuclear arsenal would be insane enough to use it in such a way. Not even in the USSR/Russia, where leaders were/are variously xenophobic, paranoid, autocratic, mentally slow, deranged, naive, etc, were any of them crazy enough to do such a thing.

Wouldn't have to be insane at all. MAD was the plan for many years, and still is.....but sorry, no mass extinction for all of mankind, even more so because warhead counts and dirty yield are way down from the old days.

If any of you had experience with nuclear weapons you would know better.

Edited August 7, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Guthrie]

only fools dream of human existance beyond a global nuclear holocaust

-- just a casual look at what's available in recent news demonstrates the fact - there is no need to go back and re-read 'Nuclear Winter' --- there is not a scientist in the world who agrees with the village idiots

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1067967...n-Hiroshima-Day

[bush_cheney2004]

only fools dream of human existance beyond a global nuclear holocaust

-- just a casual look at what's available in recent news demonstrates the fact - there is no need to go back and re-read 'Nuclear Winter' --- there is not a scientist in the world who agrees with the village idiots

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1067967...n-Hiroshima-Day

They must be related to the same idiots crying about global warming. Hey.....THAT's IT !!!! We can solve "global warming" with a big nuclear war. LOL!

[Guthrie]

They must be related to the same idiots crying about global warming. Hey.....THAT's IT !!!! We can solve "global warming" with a big nuclear war. LOL!

yes, I see your position in this village, clearly enough, now

[bush_cheney2004]

yes, I see your position in this village, clearly enough, now

Fine by me....this idiot actually worked with nuclear weapons systems and planning while putzes worked with their imaginations....."THE SKY IS FALLING !!!!! (Again) "

Weren't we all suppose to be dead from HIV/AIDS by now?

[Guthrie]

Fine by me....this idiot actually worked with nuclear weapons systems and planning while putzes worked with their imaginations....."THE SKY IS FALLING !!!!! (Again) "

Weren't we all suppose to be dead from HIV/AIDS by now?

yeah, there it is!!! my favorite argument. sometimes the guy is claiming to be a green beret, sometimes he's claiming to be a submarine captain but it is always some far-fetched, improbable position claimed by someone who also, is unable to discuss it too much, always the next surprise -- but leaving the guy with all the inside information in the world and from now on, all he ever has to produce for an expert reference is, himself

sure, mr 'bush_cheney2004', I know that the above character isn't you -- I don't know you and am in no position to disprove any claim you make --- but your argument, it's just same ol same ol

[bush_cheney2004]

yeah, there it is!!! my favorite argument. sometimes the guy is claiming to be a green beret, sometimes he's claiming to be a submarine captain but it is always some far-fetched, improbable position claimed by someone who also, is unable to discuss it too much, always the next surprise -- but leaving the guy with all the inside information in the world and from now on, all he ever has to produce for an expert reference is, himself

You have only offered up your emotions. The grown-ups don't always have that luxury.

sure, mr 'bush_cheney2004', I know that the above character isn't you -- I don't know you and am in no position to disprove any claim you make --- but your argument, it's just same ol same ol

Then why do you persist? What is your agenda? This is a thread about ex-Governor Sarah Palin, not your insecurities.

[GostHacked]

Wouldn't have to be insane at all. MAD was the plan for many years, and still is.....but sorry, no mass extinction for all of mankind, even more so because warhead counts and dirty yield are way down from the old days.

Mutual assured destruction if ever launched, can and will be the end of the human race. IF either the US or Russia even launches one, total retaliation will happen, and both sides will be gone. That leaves the other freaks with nukes to fly off the handle and smoke the rest of the world.

IF one goes, they are all going. End of humanity.

I just hope Palin can pronounce nuclear proplery.

[bush_cheney2004]

Mutual assured destruction if ever launched, can and will be the end of the human race. IF either the US or Russia even launches one, total retaliation will happen, and both sides will be gone. That leaves the other freaks with nukes to fly off the handle and smoke the rest of the world.

IF one goes, they are all going. End of humanity.

Nope....not going to happen that way. There are at least five greater threats to "humankind", one of which we have already witnessed on another planet.

It is harder to "smoke" the entire world than you think. Sit down and do the math sometime.

I just hope Palin can pronounce nuclear proplery.

Proplery? That was on purpose..right? Cause...like...."nuclear" is prononced several ways depending on region....kinda like "aboot" in Canada.

[GostHacked]

Nope....not going to happen that way. There are at least five greater threats to "humankind", one of which we have already witnessed on another planet.

It is harder to "smoke" the entire world than you think. Sit down and do the math sometime.

Chernobyl was not even a bomb and look at the havoc it made.

Proplery? That was on purpose..right? Cause...like...."nuclear" is prononced several ways depending on region....kinda like "aboot" in Canada.

No it was not on purpose, but after I posted I decided to leave it as is. I have never heard aboot from a Canadian. I have heard about. Only when I was doing 4 years of help desk for Time Warner and US customers did I ever hear aboot.

The only time I ever hear ABOOT from a 'Canadian' is on South Park.

[bush_cheney2004]

Chernobyl was not even a bomb and look at the havoc it made.

What was the body count? Today, it is a lush paradise for many biologics.

No it was not on purpose, but after I posted I decided to leave it as is. I have never heard aboot from a Canadian. I have heard about. Only when I was doing 4 years of help desk for Time Warner and US customers did I ever hear aboot.

You will hear it plenty whenever touting the "proper" pronunciation of "nuclear", and that includes President Jimmy Carter, a trained nuclear engineer.

[GostHacked]

What was the body count? Today, it is a lush paradise for many biologics.

But not for humans.

[Bonam]

Nope...not even close. There would be huge losses of life and increased diseases from ionizing radiation, but not extinction. Many of the warheads are directed at enemy defenses and missile sites, not just population centers. Fallout and prevailing weather conditions are very well understood......how did so many Americans survive above ground testing with hundreds of weapons?

It is irrelevant whether warheads are directed at population centers or other areas. The reason that no such event took place due to prior weapon testing was because: 1) the weapons were detonated separately, one or at most a few at a time, over the scale of decades and 2) not that many were detonated.

It already is "omnipresent", from many sources, including the sun.

Neither nuclear winter nor hazardously high levels of radiation are "omnipresent", not sure what you mean here. Yes, the Sun does give off harmful radiation. You might get skin cancer if you get burned by it too many times. That's not the same as getting a lethal dose with a few days exposure.

Wouldn't have to be insane at all. MAD was the plan for many years, and still is

Umm MAD was exactly the reason that direct war never happened between major nuclear powers, and one of the foremost reasons why sane leaders never used nuclear weapons after WWII. If you know what MAD is, surely you understand that MAD is indeed the sanest policy in regards to nuclear weapons, providing the greatest deterrent against their use. Or do you just read the acronym and forget everything else?

.....but sorry, no mass extinction for all of mankind, even more so because warhead counts and dirty yield are way down from the old days.

No mass extinction because we've never detonated thousands of fusion warheads around the world simultaneously, and never will so long as major nuclear powers are governed by leaders sane enough to understand the concept of mutual assured destruction.

And like I said, it wouldn't be extinction, humans in shielded facilities would indeed likely survive. As would humans living in off-world facilities. However, the Earth's population would be vastly reduced in the years following such an event, to a tiny fraction of what it was prior.

If any of you had experience with nuclear weapons you would know better.

What sort of experience do you suggest? Launching them or getting hit by them? Perhaps going over the detailed design of a nuclear weapon and its delivery system would be sufficient qualification for commentary? Or do you claim to have more?

Edited August 7, 2009 by Bonam

[bush_cheney2004]

It is irrelevant whether warheads are directed at population centers or other areas. The reason that no such event took place due to prior weapon testing was because: 1) the weapons were detonated separately, one or at most a few at a time, over the scale of decades and 2) not that many were detonated.

Still, you cannot demonstrate the kind of lethality or mortality for individuals living downwind from those tests to scale up enough to kill every human being on this planet (extinction). "Extinction" is a very difficult burden to prove, and that was the original contention.

Radiation risk does not scale up with weapon yield.....blast and heat become the primary effects. Here is a decent summary of short and long term radiation effects:

http://www.economicexpert.com/5a/Nuclear:weapon.htm

Neither nuclear winter nor hazardously high levels of radiation are "omnipresent", not sure what you mean here. Yes, the Sun does give off harmful radiation. You might get skin cancer if you get burned by it too many times. That's not the same as getting a lethal dose with a few days exposure.

There are many ways to mitigate exposure using basic concepts commonly implemented when there were far more warheads in play (time....distance...shielding).

Edited August 7, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

double post

Edited August 7, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Guthrie]

You have only offered up your emotions. ...

No, what I offered up, after the most casual of news searches was the following URL:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1067967...n-Hiroshima-Day

which links to a news article from yesterday, in which real scientists, note:

...

Starr warned that accidental nuclear war was a real threat to the human race.

"The US and Russia now have 900 missiles armed with 220 strategic nuclear warheads on high alert which can be launched with only a few minutes warning," he told a forum at NSW parliament marking Hiroshima Day.

"The detonation of 4,440 of these warheads ... would cause up to 180 tonnes of soot from burning cities to rise right into the stratosphere.

"The smoke would block about 70 per cent of the sunlight in the northern hemisphere and 35 per cent of the sunlight in the southern hemisphere."

He warned the nuclear "night" would trigger a global ice age, destroying agricultural regions, resulting in world-wide starvation on an unimaginable scale.

"It would be colder than it was 18,000 years ago at the height of the last ice age," he said.

"These arsenals would cause catastrophic changes in the global climate that would virtually eliminate growing seasons for a decade or more."

...

what you offered up was not even emotion, it was a bogus claim of expert knowledge, no resume', no reference to any authoritative works you've published, nothing --- what you want, is for everybody just to take your sad word for it. Sorry, in my experience, frauds are not to be believed.

Then why do you persist? What is your agenda? This is a thread about ex-Governor Sarah Palin, not your insecurities.

if you cannot see the danger of letting an extremist nut-case, like Sarah Palin, have authority over the US nuclear arsenal, you really do have that special village position

[bush_cheney2004]

what you offered up was not even emotion, it was a bogus claim of expert knowledge, no resume', no reference to any authoritative works you've published, nothing --- what you want, is for everybody just to take your sad word for it. Sorry, in my experience, frauds are not to be believed.

You have neither experience or knowledge.....you are just a scared member of the peanut gallery. So be afraid...be very afraid of what you don't know.

if you cannot see the danger of letting an extremist nut-case, like Sarah Palin, have authority over the US nuclear arsenal, you really do have that special village position

This is what I mean...you don't even know how the US National Command Authority works. So use Google like you must and find out what the NCA is and maybe SIOP too. Then come back for some more schoolin'.

[Guthrie]

What was the body count? Today, it is a lush paradise for many biologics.

...

this is a lie

even the Russians admit

...

The most contaminated areas include a 150 thousand square kilometer zone stretching from Ukraine into Belarus and Russia. An ‘exclusion zone’ has been created in the 30 kilometers around the plant, and is today virtually uninhabited. However, the radioactive fallout did not stop there.

...

http://www.russiatoday.com/Top_News/2009-0....html?fullstory

you pretend expertise but your posts, appear to be on the far opposite side of reality -- 'lush paradise,' - that takes quite a talent for fiction

but in combination you seem to claim

A: - special knowledge of:

how the US National Command Authority works.

which allows you to say it doesn't matter if the POTUS is the next hitler

and

B: - it also doesn't matter if the button is pushed because we have the example of Chernobyl -

a lush paradise for many biologics.

I don't know how many of the regulars here fall for this stuff but I think you're only kidding yourself.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Guthrie

[bush_cheney2004]

you pretend expertise but your posts, appear to be on the far opposite side of reality -- 'lush paradise,' - that takes quite a talent for fiction

Nonsense......the seasonal growth in and around Chernobly has been remarkable, confounding many expectations.

but in combination you seem to claim

A: - special knowledge of: which allows you to say it doesn't matter if the POTUS is the next hitler

and

B: - it also doesn't matter if the button is pushed because we have the example of Chernobyl -

I don't know how many of the regulars here fall for this stuff but I think you're only kidding yourself.

There is no big red button to push....no single individual can initiate a nuclear attack option...you simply don't know what you are talkng about....but then again....how could you?

"Virtually uninhabited" does not mean the total absence of people or other biologics.

Your big mistake was shooting off your ignorance with humankind's "extinction". Body count please?

Edited August 8, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Guthrie]

Nonsense......the seasonal growth in and around Chernobly has been remarkable, confounding many expectations.

There is no big red button to push....no single individual can initiate a nuclear attack option...you simply don't know what you are talkng about....but then again....how could you?

Your big mistake was shooting off your ignorance with humankind's "extinction". Body count please?

No, my big mistake was wasting time on you. You're a fraud, you confuse metaphor with reality and reality with jingoistic bullpuckey. Good luck, Captain bush_cheney, not that you'll ever lose a battle, there, in your own little world.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, my big mistake was wasting time on you. You're a fraud, you confuse metaphor with reality and reality with jingoistic bullpuckey. Good luck, Captain bush_cheney, not that you'll ever lose a battle, there, in your own little world.

No, I called your bullshit for what it is.....but please continue to be afraid...very afraid...like all ignorant people.

As for Chernobyl...National Geographic confirms my "lush paradise" for biologics.....you lose:

But it turns out that the radioactive cloud may have a silver lining. Recent studies suggest that the 19-mile (30-kilometer) "exclusion zone" set up around the reactor has turned into a wildlife haven.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20..._chernobyl.html