What are the important cultural differences between Canada and the US?

[Guest American Woman]

Edited to stick to my earlier position: If anyone cares to discuss the article I was responding to, ie: engage in discussion, I'm listening.... but will be ignoring all other responses.

Edited July 11, 2013 by American Woman

[dre]

Edited to stick to my earlier position: If anyone cares to discuss the article I was responding to, ie: engage in discussion, I'm listening.... but will be ignoring all other responses.

Poor, poor AW.

[carepov]

Like I said, Canadians dont use typically use an american reference when talking to fellow CDN's.

Maybe not one-on-one, but articles like the Macleans article (Canadian media talking to Canadian readers) are very common, and IMO too common.

[guyser]

Maybe not one-on-one, but articles like the Macleans article (Canadian media talking to Canadian readers) are very common, and IMO too common.

Very true.

I dont like those articles, never really did unless there is some element of humour involved. Dont read them either.

[carepov]

I did a quick span of some of the 99 reasons it's better to be Canadian:

We brave the cold better

Our taste in chocolate is better

We dominate hockey

We live in bigger houses

We’re funnier

We’re actually better at tennis now

Niagara Falls: Canada’s horseshoe falls vs. the American side.

And my personal favorite: Our dinosaur discoveries are cooler.

And of course the not to be missed: We’re more popular. The ol' "mapleleaf on the backpack" mindset prevails.

As for most pathetic, this has to be right up there: Our national symbol is a worthier animal.

I wouldn't go so far as to call these pathetic, but I would say lame.

Many comparissons are interesting and useful:

1. We live longer: Canadians born today will live an average of three years longer than Americans (81 years in Canada versus 78.7 south of the border).

(5) We have a lower rate of suicide (11.1 per 100,000 people, versus 12 in the U.S.),

(6) a lower rate of infant mortality (5.1 per 1,000 live births, versus 6.1 in the U.S.)

(7) and our health care costs per person are much lower (US$4,445 per capita in Canada, versus $8,233 in the U.S.).

(70) We attract more immigrants: Canada gets 5.65 per 1,000 people, compared to the U.S., with 3.64 per 1,000.

81. We don’t have out-of-control prison sentences: Last year 38,700 people were serving time in Canada, roughly 114 for every 100,000 citizens. That’s nothing. In the U.S. 2.24 million Americans are locked up—716 for every 100,000 citizens, the highest incarceration rate in the world. Canada ranks 136th.

82. Our government doesn’t kill people: Canada officially abolished capital punishment in 1976, but no Canadian inmate has been executed since 1962. By contrast, the U.S. put 43 prisoners to death last year alone, while 3,125 inmates continue to wait on death row.

(86) We have far fewer murders: Our homicide rate is 1.73 per 100,000 people, compared to 4.7 in the U.S.

If I were an American I would be very concerned about some of these numbers and I would hope that leaders would take notice and implement better policies.

[cybercoma]

Maybe not one-on-one, but articles like the Macleans article (Canadian media talking to Canadian readers) are very common, and IMO too common.

I don't put much stock in Maclean's articles. They're poorly written and completely bereft of any intelligent analysis. It's a rag.

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe not one-on-one, but articles like the Macleans article (Canadian media talking to Canadian readers) are very common, and IMO too common.

Exactly. And thanks for admitting that. As I said, I bought a book about "Canadian culture" because I wanted to learn more about Canada, and was totally disappointed when it was all about how you're not like the U.S. Articles/comparisons like this are all too plentiful, and the mindset is all too common. It's the "maple leaf on the backpack" mindset, and I truly think Canadians do themselves a disservice by it.

Some of those "99 reasons" were, as I said, downright pathetic. Y'all are better than that. Not "better" than the U.S., though - any more than we are better than you.

[Guest American Woman]

I wouldn't go so far as to call these pathetic, but I would say lame.

Many comparissons are interesting and useful:

1. We live longer: Canadians born today will live an average of three years longer than Americans (81 years in Canada versus 78.7 south of the border).

(5) We have a lower rate of suicide (11.1 per 100,000 people, versus 12 in the U.S.),

(6) a lower rate of infant mortality (5.1 per 1,000 live births, versus 6.1 in the U.S.)

(7) and our health care costs per person are much lower (US$4,445 per capita in Canada, versus $8,233 in the U.S.).

(70) We attract more immigrants: Canada gets 5.65 per 1,000 people, compared to the U.S., with 3.64 per 1,000.

81. We don’t have out-of-control prison sentences: Last year 38,700 people were serving time in Canada, roughly 114 for every 100,000 citizens. That’s nothing. In the U.S. 2.24 million Americans are locked up—716 for every 100,000 citizens, the highest incarceration rate in the world. Canada ranks 136th.

82. Our government doesn’t kill people: Canada officially abolished capital punishment in 1976, but no Canadian inmate has been executed since 1962. By contrast, the U.S. put 43 prisoners to death last year alone, while 3,125 inmates continue to wait on death row.

(86) We have far fewer murders: Our homicide rate is 1.73 per 100,000 people, compared to 4.7 in the U.S.

If I were an American I would be very concerned about some of these numbers and I would hope that leaders would take notice and implement better policies.

I have looked into most of those numbers, and everything isn't black and white nor is it laways what meets the eye.

For one thing, Canadians have a higher immigration per capita population, so it is that Canadians are living longer, or that those born elsewhere are living longer? I've also read that those living in cold climates generally live longer. How does that factor in? Also, some nationalities/races live longer. So how does that figure into the numbers? You also don't have a population of illegal immigrants entering into your country like we do. How does that affect the stats? Also, what is the quality of life for those living a bit longer - living longer isn't necessarily better in and of itself.

As for the lower rate of suicide, those must be pretty recent stats, because for a long time Canada had a higher rate of suicide than the U.S.. These stats aren't static, so keying in on specific years can present a false picture.

As for infant mortality rates, again, we have a lot of illegal immigrants giving birth here - and I've read that the stats reflect our trying to save infants that other nations don't. There are also different ways of counting infant mortality - different criteria. And again, we have different population issues than you do.

As for the health care costs per capita, you save by being able to use the U.S. as a safety net when services aren't available in Canada. Your government sends people to the U.S. for care. We have no such safety net. Research costs also enter into it.

As for "attracting more immigrants," are you sure that shouldn't read "accepting more immigrants?" Canada has a need to build its population that the U.S. does not have.

As for the prison sentences, that's a matter of opinion. Some think being tough on crime is good. Some think being soft on crime is good. Furthermore, we have almost ten times the population that Canada has, with a much broader geographic diversity, so it stands to reason that we would have more of a crime problem. Studies show that crime is higher in hotter temps, a problem which would affect the U.S. more than it does Canada.

As for not having the death penalty, my state abolished it before your country, so is my state "better" to live in than any province in Canada? Personally, I think Canada is sometimes too soft on crime, and I don't think that's any better than being too harsh. I think they are both issues that need to be dealt with.

And yes, we do have a higher rate of murder - but there is no comparable country to the U.S. You cannot compare countries that have smaller populations than some of our states with our country. I'm not making excuses; I'm simply saying that comparisons are not relevant.

Having said all that, I'm sure I could find differences between our countries that would present the U.S. in the better light. I have no such desire, however, and I'm sure no such article exists. But ..... I think the eagle is a grander national symbol, so living in the U.S. must be better than living in Canada.

Bottom line. I think Canada has as much to be concerned with as we do - and being Canadian is no better than being American.

[g_bambino]

Canadian identity isn't built entirely around being not American. But, even though we're-not-American does permeate our collective identity to an extent, so what? Canadians have had to on a number of occasions resist being forced to be American; Canadians (Quebecois, actually) refused to become Americans when offered; and, rather like being not British was a big factor in the founding and early development of America (though not the sole driving force, given the obvious British elements America retained), Canada was founded on being not American (Confederation being a tactic to lessen the chances of the disparate colonies of British North America being taken over by the republic; our constitutional monarchical system adopted because the American Civil War was seen as demonstration of the failure of American republicanism). Now the population and the culture of America both dwarf ours. So, I say Canadians should embrace the notion of being not American as forming a part of being Canadian; it's in our blood. And it doesn't have to be antagonistic.

[carepov]

Many good points, I will respond to the ones where I disgree strongly

As for the prison sentences, that's a matter of opinion. Some think being tough on crime is good. Some think being soft on crime is good. Furthermore, we have almost ten times the population that Canada has, with a much broader geographic diversity, so it stands to reason that we would have more of a crime problem. Studies show that crime is higher in hotter temps, a problem which would affect the U.S. more than it does Canada.

I can't beleive that you are defending/excusing your justice policies. America is "tough on crime" with over 6 times as many inmates AND your crime rates are much higher as reflected my murder rates 2.7 times higher. These differences are way to large to be explained away by your excuses. At some pont you need to say, whoa, we have a problem!

As for the health care costs per capita, you save by being able to use the U.S. as a safety net when services aren't available in Canada. Your government sends people to the U.S. for care. We have no such safety net. Research costs also enter into it.

Canada pays for any services used in the US. The net savings are minimal/insignificant.

As for not having the death penalty, my state abolished it before your country, so is my state "better" to live in than any province in Canada? Personally, I think Canada is sometimes too soft on crime, and I don't think that's any better than being too harsh. I think they are both issues that need to be dealt with.

No, the history of when the Death Penalty was abolished is besides the point. The point is that US governments kill people - that is wrong.

Having said all that, I'm sure I could find differences between our countries that would present the U.S. in the better light. I have no such desire, however, and I'm sure no such article exists.

Don't kid yourself about Americans not comparing themselves to Cnadaians or even putting down our country. One good example is during your ObamaCare debates. On one hand you have Micheal Moore, and on the other you have the Right painting us as a third world country where people are dying due to "socialized" health care.

Bottom line. I think Canada has as much to be concerned with as we do...

Yes, especially since the well-being of Canada depends greatly on the well-being of the USA

- and being Canadian is no better than being American.

I agree.

[Guest American Woman]

Many good points, I will respond to the ones where I disgree strongly

I can't beleive that you are defending/excusing your justice policies. America is "tough on crime" with over 6 times as many inmates AND your crime rates are much higher as reflected my murder rates 2.7 times higher. These differences are way to large to be explained away by your excuses. At some pont you need to say, whoa, we have a problem!

I didn't "excuse" anything. I said I think Canada is too soft on crime and I said I don't think that's any better than being too harsh. I said I think both are issues that need to be dealt with.

But again, my "excuses" are reasons. There are reasons why a country as diverse as ours, with a population as large as ours, would have a higher crime rate - just as your large cities generally have a higher crime rate than your small cities. We have a different population make-up, different geographic make up, completely different issues. It wouldn't be relevant to compare the problems Vancouver has, for example, or the crime rate there, with my small city. And again, there is no country comparable to the U.S. Considering our diversity, our large land mass, our large population, the problems we've had and overcome - I think we do quite well. I question how well other countries would do given the same circumstances.

Canada pays for any services used in the US. The net savings are minimal/insignificant.

Of course they are not insignificant. If they were, your government would see that the services were available in Canada, rather than having to send Canadians to the U.S. for care. It would make more sense to build more facilities in Canada if money were not a major factor.

No, the history of when the Death Penalty was abolished is besides the point. The point is that US governments kill people - that is wrong.

Not all states do have the death penalty, and many Canadians think Canada should have the death penalty, so there's really not a lot of difference in the mindsets of Canadians and Americans. And no, when it was abolished isn't beside the point because I doubt Canadians thought living in Canada was a much worse experience/fate back when you had the death penalty - and we didn't, in my state.

Don't kid yourself about Americans not comparing themselves to Cnadaians or even putting down our country. One good example is during your ObamaCare debates. On one hand you have Micheal Moore, and on the other you have the Right painting us as a third world country where people are dying due to "socialized" health care.

That's not comparing so much as it's very specific people using a very specific example for one very specific purpose. Furthermore, the last thing Michael Moore does is compare the U.S. to Canada in order to make the U.S. look good/superior. Quite the opposite. Can't say I see that kind of "comparison" coming out of Canada. But our identity, our sense of well being, is not based on comparisons to Canada; we don't compare/tear Canada down just for that purpose.

Yes, especially since the well-being of Canada depends greatly on the well-being of the USA

I was speaking of concerns within your own country that have nothing to do with the U.S., but it's difficult to imagine how your well being could be so much greater than ours when that well being is greatly dependent on our well being.

I agree.

I figured you would; I don't see you as the arrogant or need-to-feel-superior type. I do enjoy our discussions and I appreciate your point of view and civil discourse. Edited July 12, 2013 by American Woman

[carepov]

Regarding Canadians using health care in the US:

Of course they are not insignificant. If they were, your government would see that the services were available in Canada, rather than having to send Canadians to the U.S. for care. It would make more sense to build more facilities in Canada if money were not a major factor.

from wiki:

-A study by Barer, et al., indicates that the majority of Canadians who seek health care in the U.S. are already there for other reasons, including business travel or vacations. A smaller proportion seek care in the U.S. for reasons of confidentiality, including abortions, mental illness, substance abuse, and other problems that they may not wish to divulge to their local physician, family, or employer.

-In a Canadian National Population Health Survey of 17,276 Canadian residents, it was reported that 0.5% sought medical care in the US in the previous year. Of these, less than a quarter had traveled to the U.S. expressly to get that care.^[65]

-A 2002 study by Katz, Cardiff, et al., reported the number of Canadians using U.S. services to be "barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home" and that the results "do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States."^[

^{Created with Highcharts 3.0.0How Many Canadians Use the U.S. Health System?Do not come to the US for care: 99.39%Come to US for care electively: 0.5%Use the US for emergency care: 0.11%}

^{Source: “Phantoms in the Snow: Canadians’ Use of Health Care Services in the United States,” Health Affairs, May 2002.}

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.html

Edited July 13, 2013 by carepov

[carepov]

I didn't "excuse" anything. I said I think Canada is too soft on crime and I said I don't think that's any better than being too harsh. I said I think both are issues that need to be dealt with.

But again, my "excuses" are reasons. There are reasons why a country as diverse as ours, with a population as large as ours, would have a higher crime rate - just as your large cities generally have a higher crime rate than your small cities. We have a different population make-up, different geographic make up, completely different issues. It wouldn't be relevant to compare the problems Vancouver has, for example, or the crime rate there, with my small city. And again, there is no country comparable to the U.S. Considering our diversity, our large land mass, our large population, the problems we've had and overcome - I think we do quite well. I question how well other countries would do given the same circumstances.

There is no doubt that the USA is unique. This does not mean that it is not comparable.

You think that 2.24 million Americans locked up—716 for every 100,000 citizens is quite well?

I wouldn't be so sure about the relationship between big cities and crime, generally our largest cities are the safest.

Not all states do have the death penalty, and many Canadians think Canada should have the death penalty, so there's really not a lot of difference in the mindsets of Canadians and Americans. And no, when it was abolished isn't beside the point because I doubt Canadians thought living in Canada was a much worse experience/fate back when you had the death penalty - and we didn't, in my state.

This is 2013, get with the program USA and stop the death penalty in all 50 states!

That's not comparing so much as it's very specific people using a very specific example for one very specific purpose. Furthermore, the last thing Michael Moore does is compare the U.S. to Canada in order to make the U.S. look good/superior. Quite the opposite. Can't say I see that kind of "comparison" coming out of Canada. But our identity, our sense of well being, is not based on comparisons to Canada; we don't compare/tear Canada down just for that purpose.

Maybe not so much lately but you would have seen many comparissons coming from Canada that were quite favorable to the USA. US productivity, US unemployment rate, lower taxes, etc...

[Guest American Woman]

Regarding Canadians using health care in the US:

from wiki:

-A study by Barer, et al., indicates that the majority of Canadians who seek health care in the U.S. ......

I'm not referring to people who seek healthcare in the U.S., though that's another story as it also saves your government money; I'm referring to people who are sent to the U.S. for healthcare, because Canada lacks the facilities/services. That saves your government the cost of having to see that these services/facilities are available in Canada.

[Guest American Woman]

There is no doubt that the USA is unique. This does not mean that it is not comparable.

Actually, unless you think comparing big cities with small cities is relevant, unless you think comparing apples to oranges is relevant, it pretty much does mean that. How can you compare something "unique" to something else? Again, considering our population, diversity, large geographic area, our history, and the problems we've overcome - I wonder how well any other country would have done under similar circumstances. Again, since you ignored it the first time, I think we've done quite well, and I am quite proud of our accomplishments. I suppose when all one does is focus on the negatives, any country would come up lacking.

You think that 2.24 million Americans locked up716 for every 100,000 citizens is quite well?

I'm mentioning for the THIRD TIME now that I don't think being soft on crime is any better than being harsh on crime. What, exactly, do you think that means??

I wouldn't be so sure about the relationship between big cities and crime, generally our largest cities are the safest.

I doubt that. I doubt that your small cities are the most crime-ridden. If they are, that would be a pretty unique problem.

This is 2013, get with the program USA and stop the death penalty in all 50 states!

Get with the program and start worrying about the concerns within your own country instead of just going on about the U.S.

Maybe not so much lately but you would have seen many comparissons coming from Canada that were quite favorable to the USA. US productivity, US unemployment rate, lower taxes, etc...

Sure, I still see a lot of Canadians focusing on those things, and a lot of Canadians moved to the U.S. for those reasons. Some still do. But the basis for your identity has always been the negative comparisons - the "mapleleaf on the backpack," mentality - and it isn't something new. "Talking to Americans" isn't exactly in the "lately" department, nor are the Joe "I am Canadian!" rants that came from Molson starting almost 20 years ago, but ending when Molson merged with Coors, an American company. Gotta love the irony. Edited July 13, 2013 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

Don't kid yourself about Americans not comparing themselves to Cnadaians or even putting down our country. One good example is during your ObamaCare debates. On one hand you have Micheal Moore, and on the other you have the Right painting us as a third world country where people are dying due to "socialized" health care.

Americans compare themselves to others all the time. American Woman and bush_cheney2004's protestations are, in Shady's words, "complete nonsense." Here's Senator Al Fraken doing what they claim America doesn't do.

[cybercoma]

I'm referring to people who are sent to the U.S. for healthcare, because Canada lacks the facilities/services. That saves your government the cost of having to see that these services/facilities are available in Canada.

The delivery of healthcare is mostly private. The government rarely provides facilities or healthcare services. Doctors, nurses, and hospital employees are not employees of the state, like they are in the UK.

Edited July 13, 2013 by cybercoma

[carepov]

I'm not referring to people who seek healthcare in the U.S., though that's another story as it also saves your government money; I'm referring to people who are sent to the U.S. for healthcare, because Canada lacks the facilities/services. That saves your government the cost of having to see that these services/facilities are available in Canada.

I addressed both:

^{How Many Canadians Use the U.S. Health System?}

^{Do not come to the US for care: 99.39%}

^{Come to US for care electively: 0.5%}

^{Use the US for emergency care: 0.11%}

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.html

This supports my claim that the use by some Canadians of US facilities has a negligible impact on Canadian Health Care costs.

IMO, the US and Canadian Health Care systems acheive similarily good results, but the US system is much more expensive. As many companies are paying for their employee's health insurance, perhaps this is one of the reasons that so many jobs have been outsourced?

And yes, Canada's system has many problems and yes Canadian jobs are being outsourced too.

[Rocky Road]

Well, it's a safe bet to say that you don't know "America" at all, as it is a far more complex place that your tiny and narrow view from Canada allows. But either way, Canada will continue to define the Canadian identity as "not American", because it knows even less about itself.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/04/27/oh-my-more-people-collecting-food-stamps-in-the-united-states-than-living-in-spain-n1580000

There are more people using food stamps than there are people in Spain.

[Guest American Woman]

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/04/27/oh-my-more-people-collecting-food-stamps-in-the-united-states-than-living-in-spain-n1580000

There are more people using food stamps than there are people in Spain.

And there are 47 times more Canadians receiving welfare than there are people in Monaco.

[Guest American Woman]

I addressed both:

^{How Many Canadians Use the U.S. Health System?}

^{Do not come to the US for care: 99.39%}

^{Come to US for care electively: 0.5%}

^{Use the US for emergency care: 0.11%}

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.html

This supports my claim that the use by some Canadians of US facilities has a negligible impact on Canadian Health Care costs.

No, it doesn't support your claim at all. If Canada had to build the facilities and provide the services for those people, regardless of how small the number, that would be a big expense, which is why these people are sent to the U.S. for treatment. Someone has to pay for those facilities and services to be available here, and that would be part of our health care expenses. If Canada did not have the U.S. to rely on, it would have to spend the money to provide the services within Canada, and that is what would be costly. Again. Why do you think Canada chooses to send them to the U.S., where it's more expensive to treat them, than provide the facilities/services in Canada?

IMO, the US and Canadian Health Care systems acheive similarily good results, but the US system is much more expensive. As many companies are paying for their employee's health insurance, perhaps this is one of the reasons that so many jobs have been outsourced?

I doubt if providing health insurance for employees is a reason for job outsourcing as it hasn't been a requirement for companies to provide such benefits. Furthermore, it's a benefit for some employees in some Canadian provinces too.

And yes, Canada's system has many problems and yes Canadian jobs are being outsourced too.

So wouldn't the fact that Canadian jobs are being outsourced too sort of cancel out your criticism of the U.S. in that regard?

[carepov]

I doubt that. I doubt that your small cities are the most crime-ridden. If they are, that would be a pretty unique problem.

Well here it is, small cities in Canada are the most crime ridden:

http://www2.macleans.ca/crime-chart/

[carepov]

No, it doesn't support your claim at all. If Canada had to build the facilities and provide the services for those people, regardless of how small the number, that would be a big expense, which is why these people are sent to the U.S. for treatment. Someone has to pay for those facilities and services to be available here, and that would be part of our health care expenses. If Canada did not have the U.S. to rely on, it would have to spend the money to provide the services within Canada, and that is what would be costly. Again. Why do you think Canada chooses to send them to the U.S., where it's more expensive to treat them, than provide the facilities/services in Canada?

So it doesn't matter that only 0.11% of Canadian cases are sent to the US (where the Province pays the full cost of the service) and you are saying that regardless of how small this number was you would be right and I would be wrong. I suppose it doesn't matter if Cnadian health care is the same cost as,10% cheaper or 40% cheaper than costs in the US. In the end it all cancels out so numbers don't matter, eh?

[carepov]

Actually, unless you think comparing big cities with small cities is relevant, unless you think comparing apples to oranges is relevant, it pretty much does mean that. How can you compare something "unique" to something else? Again, considering our population, diversity, large geographic area, our history, and the problems we've overcome - I wonder how well any other country would have done under similar circumstances. Again, since you ignored it the first time, I think we've done quite well, and I am quite proud of our accomplishments. I suppose when all one does is focus on the negatives, any country would come up lacking.

I'm mentioning for the THIRD TIME now that I don't think being soft on crime is any better than being harsh on crime. What, exactly, do you think that means??

Get with the program and start worrying about the concerns within your own country instead of just going on about the U.S.

Fine, the US is unique, I suppose that it is also pointless to compare the USA of the 1970's to the USA of today. There's no problem here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png

Actually I do not understand the concerns with being "soft on crime". What else matters other than:

-Ensuring people are safe, as shown by crime rates

-Minimizing the costs of the justice system (perhaps the biggest costs are the social costs of so many men locked up)

Recently I saw a report on the justice system in Texas and the creation of a separate "softer" system to deal with drug-related crimes. It looks like their leaders were getting it right and making a big difference. Imagine, Republican politicians from Texas warning Canadians about the pitfalls of a "tough on crime" policy!

I am "with the program" and am concerned with issues in Canada. For example, I am ashamed of the living conditions of our Natives and for the "Stolen Sisters". I am ashamed of Canada shipping out asbestos when we know that the product is killing people. You and I both agreed that "Canadians are no better than Americans" so why should I be any less concerned about the death penalty in some US states? I am concerned with innocent people being put to death. I am concerned when the State executes mentally handicapped people. I am concerned with the children growing up with no fathers in their lives. I am also concerned because when our leaders watch US politicians keep wining elections based on a "tough on crime" agenda guess what policies they implement here?

[GostHacked]

One more thing that makes Canada better, not many Americans.

It's a joke people.