benny Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Sorry, you have no credibility at all when it comes to the USA, let alone specific burn center operating procedures. You thought it was all ER services....laughable. And how credible a US ad can be when it comes to objectively evaluating Canada's healthcare services!? Edited July 26, 2009 by benny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Unfortunately, to some extent, that is happening in his province. They are delisting services and calling them not medically necessary. It hasn't moved into mainstream care yet, but I fear that the federal government may have to step in, and I'm not sure that this federal government has the courage. Well Smallc...Perhaps his province that was awash in oil revenue should have been investing in it's health care system?If the de-listing is going on in Alberta now because the oil revenue has dried up,perhaps it shows an serious shortsightedness in the Albertan conservative psyche? It sounds like the Albertan gov't did'nt plan for a rainy day by making the necessary financial investments when they had the excess cash.The folks out there made there choices.They,unfortunately wanted tax cuts,instead of health care investment....Priorities... I lived through the Harris years in Ontario,where those same poor judgements were made...Tax cuts vs actual societal infrastructure improvements. By the way,if the Harper gov't stepped into Albertan health care issues,how do you think that would go down out there? Of course,who else ewould they vote for in federal election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werecar Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) I am not the official arbiter of "ass", but you certainly fit the bill. Again, right back at you sunshine. Sorry, you have no credibility at all when it comes to the USA, let alone specific burn center operating procedures. You thought it was all ER services....laughable. No you guys just claim it. Its obvious you know nothing about either system whatsoever. Superior to what? Botswana? Being an ass again aren't you? Wrong...other members have offered up ideas for changes, ideas readily available in other nations and documented as "superior". You, on the other hand, are a shill and prefer to debate the preservation of a broke-dick system. You persist in being an ass and posting a straw man attack. You seem to think that any improvement means chucking universal health care and that and defence of universal health care means we think everything is fine. You are being an ass to me and aren't interested in any real discussion about how to improve the system. Troll on Macduff. Edited July 26, 2009 by Werecar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 You persist in being an ass and posting a straw man attack. You seem to think that any improvement means chucking universal health care and that and defence of universal health care means we think everything is fine. You have offered nothing in the way of change beyond "debate" in your lab break room. Bravo! You are being an ass to me and aren't interested in any real discussion about how to improve the system. Troll on Macduff. Says the rookie with no time in this pond. Swim on tadpole.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 You have offered nothing in the way of change... Offers have to be made by the US House and Senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 And how credible a US ad can be when it comes to objectively evaluating Canada's healthcare services!? Holmes is a Canadian citizen with a compelling story that wasn't even new (2005). It was cherry picked by interests on one side of a debate in the USA. However, there is ample evidence of chronic wait time and facility issues across the provinces, issues that are not mitigated by proudly announcing the statistical longevity of life in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Offers have to be made by the US House and Senate. False...offers can be made at the collective bargaining level, group contract level, personal behavior level, and medical professional level too. Government isn't always the only answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werecar Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 You have offered nothing in the way of change beyond "debate" in your lab break room. Bravo!Says the rookie with no time in this pond. Swim on tadpole.... Whatever you say sunshine. Its another forum standard to claim that a persons post count is directly proportional to the strength of their argument. In this debate I provided links and articles supporting my position only to have you 2 clowns claim that was all I had and that somehow a single personal experience trumped it. I then provided information that I not only had personal experience but professional experience and you jumped on that to claim that I was somehow a special interest person with an agenda (by extrapolation any health care worker qualifies). Then you claimed that because I support universal health care I somehow think we don't need to try and improve the system. Going back your entire argument has been "Canada's entire health care system is broke and we need to chuck it all in favour of a US style system". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Holmes is a Canadian citizen with a compelling story that wasn't even new (2005). It was cherry picked by interests on one side of a debate in the USA. However, there is ample evidence of chronic wait time and facility issues across the provinces, issues that are not mitigated by proudly announcing the statistical longevity of life in Canada. If our healthcare system has problems, it's because Canada is too close from the US/too far from Scandinavian countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Whatever you say sunshine. Its another forum standard to claim that a persons post count is directly proportional to the strength of their argument. Look....if you think you can just waltz in here and proclaim that the rest of us are idiots because you wear scrubs at work, you are quite mistaken. Other members have debated this issue for years.....rookie. In this debate I provided links and articles supporting my position only to have you 2 clowns claim that was all I had and that somehow a single personal experience trumped it. I then provided information that I not only had personal experience but professional experience and you jumped on that to claim that I was somehow a special interest person with an agenda (by extrapolation any health care worker qualifies). Then you claimed that because I support universal health care I somehow think we don't need to try and improve the system. The special interest is your own, so close be you to the rotting host. You can't even smell it anymore. Going back your entire argument has been "Canada's entire health care system is broke and we need to chuck it all in favour of a US style system". Nonsense....I have never made such a claim about your broken system. In general, I have advocated the adoption of a public-private system (e.g. France) if universal access remains the primary goal (CHA). The USA has no such requirement at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) If our healthcare system has problems, it's because Canada is too close from the US/too far from Scandinavian countries. The bottom line is that clearly some Canadians are not satisfied with the system. Affixing blame for that is only helpful if it leads to a better solution. Edited July 26, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werecar Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Look....if you think you can just waltz in here and proclaim that the rest of us are idiots because you wear scrubs at work, you are quite mistaken. Other members have debated this issue for years.....rookie. Yet nowhere did I do that. I attacked the myths that were being posted not the poster who then attacked me. The special interest is your own, so close be you to the rotting host. You can't even smell it anymore. Gee, and claiming the entire health care system in Canada is a rotting host makes you a smart and informed poster eh? Nonsense....I have never made such a claim about your broken system. In general, I have advocated the adoption of a public-private system (e.g. France) if universal access remains the primary goal (CHA). The USA has no such requirement at this time. Yes you have and in fact you said it was DOA in 1993. Canada already has a public-private system and many aspects of health care are in fact private. Now I seem to be getting pms from other posters telling me that you are a known troll and they have you on ignore so I guess we are done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Yet nowhere did I do that. I attacked the myths that were being posted not the poster who then attacked me. Correct...you attacked...right from the 'git go. Gee, and claiming the entire health care system in Canada is a rotting host makes you a smart and informed poster eh? No, just your myopic view. Yes you have and in fact you said it was DOA in 1993. Canada already has a public-private system and many aspects of health care are in fact private. The 1993 reference was to Clinton's failed health care reform in the USA. It's not all about you. Now I seem to be getting pms from other posters telling me that you are a known troll and they have you on ignore so I guess we are done here. Bye bye tadpole.....better "troll" than "ass" ! Edited July 26, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 The bottom line is that clearly some Canadians are not satisfied with the system. And yet we're not the country engaged in a national debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 And yet we're not the country engaged in a national debate. Based on the responses, such debate (dissent) in Canada is frowned upon as "unpatriotic" when it comes to this sacred cow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shraytus Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Even if Americans have mid-level health insurance, chances are that the company wont pay, or if they do it'll be for only a minuscule fraction, of the total cost itself. As inefficient as the Canadian health care program may be, at times, I must be thankful that we have one at any rate. To look into the hopeful future, however, our health care is lacking in comparison to western Europe, France in particular. For being such a first rate country, I'm very thankful our health program is what it is, and what further faith I have in Harper's government will be scattered if the Conservatives commit to otherwise. That being said, there's plenty more than our health care system can bring to Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Based on the responses, such debate (dissent) in Canada is frowned upon as "unpatriotic" when it comes to this sacred cow. No, the opinion that it should be every man for himself is frowned upon as unCanadian. Universality is the sacred cow; how to improve it is the debate. But you knew that didn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 No, the opinion that it should be every man for himself is frowned upon as unCanadian. Universality is the sacred cow; how to improve it is the debate. But you knew that didn't you? So it is "unCanadian" to advocate for a private option in parallel with universal access? Moreover, it is "unCanadian" to advocate for even another nation's system to stay as it is? What are they so afraid of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 So it is "unCanadian" to advocate for a private option in parallel with universal access? Moreover, it is "unCanadian" to advocate for even another nation's system to stay as it is? What are they so afraid of? No, it's seen as unCanadian to only want every man for himself. There are quite a number of people here in favour of a parallel system. As far as your system goes, I couldn't care less what you do. Seeing some merits in others' systems, however, seems to be unAmerican to you? Or admitting there might be merits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 So it is "unCanadian" to advocate for a private option in parallel with universal access? Moreover, it is "unCanadian" to advocate for even another nation's system to stay as it is? What are they so afraid of? People have those opinions and they are entitled to them. Again that is a debate on how to make our system work, however it is unCanadian to not offer the very best to all of those who live in Canada, no matter sex, race, religion, or income. The debate will stay that way becuase an American system almost distorted this country during the TB epidemic in the 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) No, it's seen as unCanadian to only want every man for himself. There are quite a number of people here in favour of a parallel system. As far as your system goes, I couldn't care less what you do. Seeing some merits in others' systems, however, seems to be unAmerican to you? Or admitting there might be merits? Then what is the rub ?....Holmes was advocating for not adopting the Canadian single payer system in the USA, lest it damage Canada's fallback option for the provinces and private fee-for-service by crossing the border. America already has a complex public-private system that dwarfs anything in Canada. It has changed over the years. Edited July 26, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lily Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 America already has a complex public-private system that dwarfs anything in Canada. Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Then what is the rub ?....Holmes was advocating for not adopting the Canadian single payer system in the USA, lest it damage Canada's fallback option for the provinces and private fee-for-service.America already has a complex public-private system that dwarfs anything in Canada. It has changed over the years. Then, what's your problem - you think your system needs no improvement and we think ours serves our needs but could use tweaking. Are you just disgruntled because we don't see your system working for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Then, what's your problem - you think your system needs no improvement and we think ours serves our needs but could use tweaking. Are you just disgruntled because we don't see your system working for us? I don't have any problem...tweaking is cute. Canada must protect the prime directive...no matter how long they wait! As for "our system" working for you, I wonder what would happen if the Americans started refusing care to the "queue jumpers" and provincial referrals. Holmes will get her day in court (I guess...not sure if/how the provinces even have an administrative appeals process). So to sum things up, Canadians want universal single-payer care with the side option to use American facilities whenever their system breaks down. Sweeet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 The bottom line is that clearly some Canadians are not satisfied with the system. Affixing blame for that is only helpful if it leads to a better solution. The bottom line is that hardline right wingers in Canada have never liked universal health care.The idiotic NCC stood against it back in the '60's.They used the same silly reasoning you use now.They were ignored for being backwards then.For the most part,they are regarded as backwards kooks now.At another web site I go to( it's an auto racing web site) I was told basically that it was an Americans "constitutional right" to pay for private health care....A constitutional right to be bilked by the Big Insurance/Big Pharma cabal...Talk about suckers! As for our system,I'm not as rigid about some private options as other are.For example,the Shouldice Clinic in Toronto has been in existence since before Medicare came into effect.It still operates within the public system.I have no problem with that.If we took that type of lead,and took a look at the French,Dutch,or,Swiss system and tried to find a way to incorperate different forms of private options that can work within a public health care delivery system,we could probably solve alot of the wait time problems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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