bush_cheney2004 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 "meaning" must have a definition first. Definition follows meaning as grasshopper follow grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Definition follows meaning as grasshopper follow grass. Words are not like insects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Words are not like insects. We are off topic, but definitions folllow usage (meaning) ...not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 We are off topic, but definitions folllow usage (meaning) ...not the other way around. We use words to ward off indefinable situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Jack, this view is just not logical!Just because one person has a good experience doesn't mean there are NO bad ones! Or the converse, for that matter. It just means that you yourself had ONE good experience! You can't plot a curve from one point! A LOT of people have had problems! Just because you personally did not, does that mean that anyone who claims he did must be either lying or a tool of the American lackeys of the bourgeoisie? Did they imagine what they experienced? I'm struck by the digital thinking of so many in this thread. It would seem that because there are so many good things about our system that there can't be ANY BAD! This is not logic or reason. This is just faith! Patriotic jingoism! Any system made by man will have flaws, ESPECIALLY one rooted in politics! The idea is to recognize faults and correct them, so that the system in question is constantly corrected and improved. To hide behind a wall of defensive pride and fear of admitting problems (especially in any comparisons with America!) is frankly juvenile. However, when we do fool ourselves in this way it sure lets a lot of politicians off the hook! I totally agree with this.All I was saying is that,for the most part,the severity of the medical issue is what determines who goes first.That might not be the case in The States. I fully rralize that there are alot of FIXABLE problems in the universal health care system we have.Some of it might require some folks on the left to admit that we already have different forms of private health care delivery and allow that to work in each provinces public system.It seems to work in Europe,I see no reason why it cannot work here.Unfortunately,some on the extreme left think that there should be no bending on the public/private issue.These people are simply not paying attention to the fact that this is already going on,in a limited fashion.The problem then lies in being vigilent about not allowing the private system to start bleeding dry the more accessible public system we currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 There can be private delivery (well, there already is, right now I'm talking about for profit) with public funding left and right for all I care, as long as it works to improve the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yep rationed healthcare is the best, if the person above you dies you get treatment faster- sure is a humane system we have in Canada. Of course if there is no room at the hospital, depending on the province, they'll fly you via Air Ambulance to the US for treatment. What's going to happen when the US adopts our rationed healthcare? Will they still take those we can't treat? Health Care isn't free we pay through the nose via taxes, well those of us who work for a living, for the dead beats it could be deemed free? You take the scraps the government throws at you and you have no choice because the political left deem their belief of a socialized system should be forced on individuals. No choice, no say in who treats you and if you are not so lucky you die whilst waiting for your rationed healthcare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yep rationed healthcare is the best, if the person above you dies you get treatment faster- sure is a humane system we have in Canada. Of course if there is no room at the hospital, depending on the province, they'll fly you via Air Ambulance to the US for treatment. What's going to happen when the US adopts our rationed healthcare? Will they still take those we can't treat? Health Care isn't free we pay through the nose via taxes, well those of us who work for a living, for the dead beats it could be deemed free? You take the scraps the government throws at you and you have no choice because the political left deem their belief of a socialized system should be forced on individuals. No choice, no say in who treats you and if you are not so lucky you die whilst waiting for your rationed healthcare. Don't bother they (the socialists) are too busy worshiping their sacred cow to care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 No choice, no say in who treats you and if you are not so lucky you die whilst waiting for your rationed healthcare. Yep, that's why we live so long and have such good outcomes that are similar to other developed countries. Take your ideology and shove it, and we'll keep our system...and continue to force governments to improve it. Oh, and if there is no room in your hospital, they'll first take you to the next closest in your health region, then province, then country, and finally to another country, in that order, to find room or treatment. In the vast majority of cases they do what they have to do to get the treatment necessary. Oh, and I don't know how it is where you live, but where I live, I don't have to be treated by anyone that I don't want treating me. BTW, about those 'dead beats'...would you rather they died without care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 No choice, no say in who treats you and if you are not so lucky you die whilst waiting for your rationed healthcare. Who has no choice? I pick my own doctor. No matter what my employment circumstances, my health status, or what secondary insurance I may or may not have, no one ever has any say in where and how I get my medical attention other than me. I pick my doctor, I pick my specialists, I pick my hospital, I even have direct input to my course of treatment. Not only that, but when I and my doctor agree on the best course of action, no one ever comes around and tells me what is covered or not. If my doctor says I need it, I get it, full stop. Full choice, full portability, and the phrase "pre-existing condition" has no meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Who has no choice? I pick my own doctor. No matter what my employment circumstances, my health status, or what secondary insurance I may or may not have, no one ever has any say in where and how I get my medical attention other than me. I pick my doctor, I pick my specialists, I pick my hospital, I even have direct input to my course of treatment. Not only that, but when I and my doctor agree on the best course of action, no one ever comes around and tells me what is covered or not. If my doctor says I need it, I get it, full stop. Full choice, full portability, and the phrase "pre-existing condition" has no meaning. What do you do if you live in a community where you cannot have a family Doctor assigned? Their are people in my community that have to take who ever is available at the clinic at that time, because their aren't enough doctors, for them to be assigned a family practitioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 What do you do if you live in a community where you cannot have a family Doctor assigned? Their are people in my community that have to take who ever is available at the clinic at that time, because their aren't enough doctors, for them to be assigned a family practitioner. Same thing happens in remote areas in the US. If you live a small town with only one doctor, it's geography and population that limits your choice, not the government or the medical system. No system provides big city service to every square kilometre. The difference is, here you are guaranteed the care. If that community can't see to your needs, the system will pay for you to go to the closest place where that care is available, regardless of the province or even the country that care is available in. In the US, if the treatment you need is not available, too bad for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 That's true, that is a problem, but I know in this province, the number of doctors has increased by an average of 25 a year since 1999, outpacing population growth ratios with an average population growth of of 8000 per year (though the current growth rate of 15000 per year will make it more difficult....of course we did gain 83 doctors last year). The problem, over time, should correct itself. Initiatives like the ones currently going on here, with the building of rural primary health care facilities staffed by nurses and nurse practitioners as well as incentive programs like this: http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?archive=&item=5716 this: http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?archive=&item=4957 this: http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?archive=&item=4572 this: archive and this: http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?arch...1&item=4360 will help to alleviate the problem further. We still have problems in my area (we need 1 doctor in Winnipegosis, 1- 2 in McCreary, and 1 -2 in both Ste. Rose and Dauphin...Dauphin and Ste. Rose will get the ones they need, but it's hard in the other two places) and in other areas, but overall the situation is getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 One must not have Canadians in high esteem to think a foreign advertisement is a valid reason to revisit our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Same thing happens in remote areas in the US. If you live a small town with only one doctor, it's geography and population that limits your choice, not the government or the medical system. No system provides big city service to every square kilometre. The difference is, here you are guaranteed the care. If that community can't see to your needs, the system will pay for you to go to the closest place where that care is available, regardless of the province or even the country that care is available in. In the US, if the treatment you need is not available, too bad for you. I don't live in a "remote" area, I live very very close to a city and a large town. And yet very many here have no Family practitioner, if a good one moves to town literally within weeks their quota has been filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I don't live in a "remote" area, I live very very close to a city and a large town. And yet very many here have no Family practitioner, if a good one moves to town literally within weeks their quota has been filled. What city? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 What city? Sorry i'm not posting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 What city? Certainly a city where citizens don't want to pay taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Sorry i'm not posting that. OK, I just wanted to check on what doctors are taking new patients in your area specifically. There are a lot of doctors in Alberta (city and rural) who have openings right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 OK, I just wanted to check on what doctors are taking new patients in your area specifically. There are a lot of doctors in Alberta (city and rural) who have openings right now. We checked here many times absolutly no one, in the city those that have space have terriblr bed side manner. Many people call ahead at the emerency and at the walk in clinics to find out which doctors are where and go to get service from one of the better ones, brcause they cannot get in to see them at the regular clinic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 We checked here many times absolutly no one, in the city those that have space have terriblr bed side manner. Many people call ahead at the emerency and at the walk in clinics to find out which doctors are where and go to get service from one of the better ones, brcause they cannot get in to see them at the regular clinic. So there are doctors you just like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 So there are doctors you just like them. Not in the town, and do you want to see a doctor (the city) who treats you like crap? How about one that consistantly gets diagonsis' wrong? How about one who is morbily obese that tells you that you could stand to loose a few pounds when you are only 10-20 pounds over weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 So there are doctors you just like them. I was one of the lucky few to get one of the best doctors in town as the Family MD. These is frequently talked about in the coffee shops around town and complained about by seniors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Not in the town, and do you want to see a doctor (the city) who treats you like crap? How about one that consistantly gets diagonsis' wrong? How about one who is morbily obese that tells you that you could stand to loose a few pounds when you are only 10-20 pounds over weight. I got news for you that isn't just a Canadian problem. See there are doctors in your system you just don't like them Edited July 28, 2009 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 I got news for you that isn't just a Canadian problem. See there are doctors in your system you just don't like them Did you not read the post, most people in town do not like them because they are poor doctors, but for socialists like yourselves you like mediocrity. That said all of the doctors in town are booked up, during flu season it takes two weeks to get an appointment. Somehow you think you know the local situation better then me, I don't see you out and about in the community. Would you want to go the doctor that frequently gets diagnosis wrong? I spent two years going from doctor to doctor trying to find out why I was always hacking and coughing, and had constant chest pain, they sent me to specialist after specialist, Finnally the family doctor that I have now came to and I managed to get in to see him before he had taken on all the patients he was going to, turned out it was over production of stomach acid, all it took was one visit to him. Once his name was out in the community it took 2 months and he was unable to to take on any more families at his practice. Even the bad ones are full, the town still needs least two more doctors, maybe even three to handle the size of the town, and yet only 2 or three are considered to be good through doctors, but the rest have their practices maxed out as well. As I said before, people are even skipping the clinic to go to the emergency room to get to see one of the better doctors since they can't get appointments with them at the clinics. If you had a medical problem would you want to see the doctor who barely got his MD and is not know for making correct diagnosis or, or the best on in the area who is know for almost always nailing diagnosis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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