kuzadd Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Dub and Drea, and I am sure others, you maybe interested in this one. It is a tactic that should be familiar to you both and anyone else who points out to the fanatics, make no mistake these people are fanatics (Fanaticism is an emotion of being filled with excessive, uncritical zeal, particularly for an extreme religious or political cause) that Israel, does indeed committe human rights abuses. Or that Israel is an occupier Or that Israel is stealing land that is not theirs,(illegal settlements) Israel is abusing the indigenous people in deplorable ways. (War crimes, human rights abuses, torture, use of white phosphorous) Israel does not abide by it's lawful borders an agreement they signed on to. AS KK points out they signed though they have not abided by their agreements at all. Israel tortures Israel is denying basic needs to a large portion of people, engaging in punishment of an entire population There are just simple facts, obvious and true. There is an interview between Amy Goodman and a woman, an Israeli the interview is archived here http://i4.democracynow.org/2002/8/14/stream However a video was made of this exchange, to make a point. regarding the use of defamation as a tactic of silencing criticism Shulamit Aloni speaks It is sad that people engage in this , they reduce legitimate debate to name calling, and in the long run they harm a country they claim to support. Edited July 16, 2009 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
KrustyKidd Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) AS KK points out they signed though they have not abided by their agreements at all. Agreed to it, actually made it the cornerstone of their nation despite the Arabs unanimously flat out refusing it and then, were attacked with the intent of murdering every last one of them and now you are poo pooing that for some reason they don't roll over and give up land from which they have been continually attacked from? Israel has a history of giving back land to those who have made peace with them. I imagine when genuine peaceful intent is ingrained in a competent government in Palestine, they will probably get land. Until then, keep firing away and they get nothing but misery comforted by biased left wing organizations such as Red Cross, AI and all the moon bat jew haters. It is sad that people engage in this , they reduce legitimate debate to name calling, and in the long run they harm a country they claim to support. You are so deluded that you mistake our not joining in on the anti Israel 'pileon' you continually pump out here for support. I dare you to find one instance of me actually supporting Israel other than to explain why they have to do certain things. Edited July 16, 2009 by KrustyKidd Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
kuzadd Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) KK they clearly have NOT abided by their agreement or they would be in their lawful border and NOT building new homes in occupied territories. That is a fact. But you beautifully demonstrated text book fanatacism. And this post is about the use of defamation when pointing out these facts, click the link watch the video. I bolded it for you so you cannot miss the clip from democracy now. You also used defamation, another beautiful example of the point of this post. The use of defamation against people pointing out facts. Edited July 16, 2009 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Wars come with penalties for those who start them and lose them. The Arabs want back the land they lost when they lost the war.. Israel wants peace and security. Until the arabs can give peace, Israel has to provide the security. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Israel is abusing the indigenous people in deplorable ways. (War crimes, human rights abuses, torture, use of white phosphorous) Hamas executes Fatah members en masse. No need to reply...you're probably too upset at Israel's human rights abuses to comment, anyways. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Israel is abusing the indigenous people in deplorable ways. (War crimes, human rights abuses, torture, use of white phosphorous) The arabs are not the indigenous people of the area. They are migrants who arrived in the 3rd century AD after the indigenous peoples were driven away. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 The arabs are not the indigenous people of the area. They are migrants who arrived in the 3rd century AD after the indigenous peoples were driven away. Seventh century, no? If the Arabs want to lay connection to the ancient Philistines of the area, they'll be happy to know the client states occupied almost exactly the same area where the Gaza Strip is now. However, I believe Alexander had a few issues with the folks in this region which ended up in many being carried off into slavery elsewhere. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Seventh century, no? If the Arabs want to lay connection to the ancient Philistines of the area, they'll be happy to know the client states occupied almost exactly the same area where the Gaza Strip is now. However, I believe Alexander had a few issues with the folks in this region which ended up in many being carried off into slavery elsewhere. I believe the arabs in the region predate the islamification of the region. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 I believe the arabs in the region predate the islamification of the region. Perhaps...the word 'Arbai' is pretty old. I do know that Islam arrived in the 7th century under Omar & crew, virtually destroying the Greco-Roman culture of the Byzantines. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dub Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 The arabs are not the indigenous people of the area. They are migrants who arrived in the 3rd century AD after the indigenous peoples were driven away. most jews are not the indigenous people of the area. they are migrants who arrived from mainly europe, in the late 19th century and 20th century. Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 most jews are not the indigenous people of the area. they are migrants who arrived from mainly europe, in the late 19th century and 20th century. Incorrect. They are the descendants of the people whose claim to the land goes back to at least the 15th century BC and may go back as far as 3000 BC. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
DogOnPorch Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 most jews are not the indigenous people of the area. they are migrants who arrived from mainly europe, in the late 19th century and 20th century. Yasser Arafat was born in Cairo. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dub Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Incorrect. They are the descendants of the people whose claim to the land goes back to at least the 15th century BC and may go back as far as 3000 BC. i'm sure i can trace my origins to people who at one point have lived all over europe and probably around the black and caspian sea before migrating to europe. that doesn't give me land rights to those areas over people who are living there now. you apologists make such idiotic arguments. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 i'm sure i can trace my origins to people who at one point have lived all over europe and probably around the black and caspian sea before migrating to europe. that doesn't give me land rights to those areas over people who are living there now.you apologists make such idiotic arguments. Nobody then or now has the right to land...only the right to defend possession. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bonam Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 i'm sure i can trace my origins to people who at one point have lived all over europe and probably around the black and caspian sea before migrating to europe. that doesn't give me land rights to those areas over people who are living there now.you apologists make such idiotic arguments. How many generations does a land claim last? If Israel "steals" all the land it is currently occupying and maintains its "occupation" for a hundred years, so that all the original displaced persons are long dead and their descendants are several generations removed, would you then accept the Palestinian claims to that land as being over and done with? How long dub, and who is it that gets to pick the timescale? Quote
dub Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 How many generations does a land claim last? If Israel "steals" all the land it is currently occupying and maintains its "occupation" for a hundred years, so that all the original displaced persons are long dead and their descendants are several generations removed, would you then accept the Palestinian claims to that land as being over and done with? How long dub, and who is it that gets to pick the timescale? follow international law and the problem will be resolved. don't follow international law and become an apologist for that, then you have the mess we have now. Quote
Bonam Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 follow international law and the problem will be resolved.don't follow international law and become an apologist for that, then you have the mess we have now. So you refuse to answer the question? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Radical...lol...Islam's view on the situation... Muslim land = anywhere a camel has taken a sh!t. Jewish land = no such thing exists. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kuzadd Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Posted July 17, 2009 most jews are not the indigenous people of the area. they are migrants who arrived from mainly europe, in the late 19th century and 20th century. And many Jews that immigrate there have never walked in the ME, ever. They are descended from generations of Europeans. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
kuzadd Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) How many generations does a land claim last? If Israel "steals" all the land it is currently occupying and maintains its "occupation" for a hundred years, so that all the original displaced persons are long dead and their descendants are several generations removed, would you then accept the Palestinian claims to that land as being over and done with? How long dub, and who is it that gets to pick the timescale? How many did it last for Israel? btw, can we talk about the topic at hand. without defamation? Edited July 17, 2009 by kuzadd Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
M.Dancer Posted July 17, 2009 Report Posted July 17, 2009 And many Jews that immigrate there have never walked in the ME, ever.They are descended from generations of Europeans. In that case, all those palestinians born and living in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Cyprus, Canada...etc etc can forget about ever going back? Is that the tack you wish to follow? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
dub Posted July 17, 2009 Report Posted July 17, 2009 In that case, all those palestinians born and living in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Cyprus, Canada...etc etc can forget about ever going back?Is that the tack you wish to follow? you're ridiculous. they are children of palestinians who were either driven out or were fleeing the violence. they are not considered jordanian, egyptian or syrian by the governments that they've taken refuge in the past few decades. the russian jews who immigrated or are immigrating from russia are russians more than anything. their only tie to the region is the biblical and religious crap. not to mention the awesome handouts that they receive from the government for settling there. did you know that the settlers pay 1/4 of what the palestinians pay for water? this is water that is coming from the west bank. israel is stealing more than just land, they're also stealing water. Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 17, 2009 Report Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) you're ridiculous.they are children of palestinians who were either driven out or were fleeing the violence. they are not considered jordanian, egyptian or syrian by the governments that they've taken refuge in the past few decades. the russian jews who immigrated or are immigrating from russia are russians more than anything. their only tie to the region is the biblical and religious crap. not to mention the awesome handouts that they receive from the government for settling there. The same double standard, same racism,,,btw...if they are not considered Jordanian, why do so many have Jordanian passports? Edited July 17, 2009 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
dub Posted July 17, 2009 Report Posted July 17, 2009 The same double standard, same racism,,,btw...if they are not considered Jordanian, why do so many have Jordanian passports? ' so i guess you accept that your comparison was ridiculous and your argument that the russian and other european jews who migrated to israel are indigenous people of the land has been squashed. facts have once again kicked your ass and will continue to kick your ass. Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 17, 2009 Report Posted July 17, 2009 'so i guess you accept that your comparison was ridiculous and your argument that the russian and other european jews who migrated to israel are indigenous people of the land has been squashed. facts have once again kicked your ass and will continue to kick your ass. You might want to rethink your logic on that. Or your illogic... Until 1967, the West Bank was occupied by Jordan: it was actually formally annexed, and the Palestinian Arabs living there were considered Jordanians (and, even today, they often hold a Jordanian passport). But, tellingly, none of them called for an intifada against Jordan to create a Palestinian state in the West Bank, and none of the Palestinian Arabs ever fought against the Egyptians in Gaza, who had occupied the Gaza Strip since 1948. The fighting has always and exclusively been directed against Israel's existence. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...ticle%2FPrinter In Dub Land....Jordanian Palestinains who have never set foot can come back, but the Jews can't. Those are the facts Jack Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
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