Red Cross report: Gazans ‘in despair’

[dub]

JERUSALEM (JTA) -- Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip has left "1.5 million people in despair," a Red Cross report said.

The report, released Monday by the International Committee of the Red Cross, says the blockade of the coastal strip is preventing Gaza from rebuilding six months after Israel's military operation in Gaza. Many homes were damaged or destroyed in the operation.

"Gaza neighborhoods particularly hard hit by the Israeli strikes will continue to look like the epicenter of a massive earthquake unless vast quantities of cement, steel and other building materials are allowed into the territory for reconstruction," the report said.

It called on Israel to "lift import restrictions on spare parts, water pipes and building materials such as cement and steel so that homes can be rebuilt and vital infrastructure maintained and upgraded."

The report also criticized the blockade for denying appropriate access to health care for Gazans.

"Health issues in Gaza are often politicized and patients find themselves caught up in a bureaucratic maze," it said. "The procedures for requesting permission to leave the territory are complicated and involve both the Palestinian and Israeli authorities."

[dub]

the reports keep coming and the apologists keep making excuses.

[dub]

instead of making another thread, here is another Rights Group's report:

Rights group: IDF failed to verify drone targets in Gaza

An international human rights group yesterday accused the Israel Defense Forces of failing on six occasions to verify the targets of drone aircraft during the Gaza conflict in January, killing at least 29 Palestinian civilians.

The report by Human Rights Watch (HRW) states that in the six incidents in question, "Israeli forces either failed to take all feasible precautions to verify that the targets were combatants, apparently setting an unacceptably low threshold for conducting attacks, or they failed to distinguish between combatants and civilians and to target only the former. As a result, these attacks violated international humanitarian law (the laws of war)."

[KrustyKidd]

instead of making another thread, here is another Rights Group's report:

Rights group: IDF failed to verify drone targets in Gaza

An international human rights group yesterday accused the Israel Defense Forces of failing on six occasions to verify the targets of drone aircraft during the Gaza conflict in January, killing at least 29 Palestinian civilians.

The report by Human Rights Watch (HRW) states that in the six incidents in question, "Israeli forces either failed to take all feasible precautions to verify that the targets were combatants, apparently setting an unacceptably low threshold for conducting attacks, or they failed to distinguish between combatants and civilians and to target only the former. As a result, these attacks violated international humanitarian law (the laws of war)."

Hamas still has energy to attack their own though.

Palestinian Authority says it foiled Hamas attacks

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AFP) — The Palestinian Authority (PA) said on Monday it dismantled a Hamas cell that was planning attacks against Palestinian leaders and public buildings in the West Bank.

[Bonam]

"Gaza neighborhoods particularly hard hit by the Israeli strikes will continue to look like the epicenter of a massive earthquake unless vast quantities of cement, steel and other building materials are allowed into the territory for reconstruction," the report said.

You want them to let steel and cement into the Hamas terrorist stronghold so they can build more human-shielded military installations? No thanks.

[dub]

You want them to let steel and cement into the Hamas terrorist stronghold so they can build more human-shielded military installations? No thanks.

no thanx! says bonam.

where do you suggest the people whose buildings have been demolish should sleep? they've been sleeping in tents for over 4 months.

[Bonam]

no thanx! says bonam.

where do you suggest the people whose buildings have been demolish should sleep? they've been sleeping in tents for over 4 months.

What's so bad about sleeping in a tent? Here in Canada where we have houses to live in people go camping and sleep in tents for fun! Sorry, couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm there.

Also, you know, they could make their own building materials, like people elsewhere around the world do, instead of waiting for handouts. In addition, maybe next time, when they do get their houses rebuilt, they'll not be so eager to let Hamas use them for launching rockets from or hiding weapons in.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Bonam

[dub]

What's so bad about sleeping in a tent? Here in Canada where we have houses to live in people go camping and sleep in tents for fun! Sorry, couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm there.

Also, you know, they could make their own building materials, like people elsewhere around the world do, instead of waiting for handouts. In addition, maybe next time, when they do get their houses rebuilt, they'll not be so eager to let Hamas use them for launching rockets from or hiding weapons in.

they have no infrastructure. how would they build their own? in case you missed it, gaza has been hit pretty hard.

it's not just building materials either; israel does not allow the movement of necessary medical supplies.

lets not kid around here, bonam. it's easier to talk about something when all sides acknowledge the real reasons. the real reason israel is doing this is to punish the gazan people for supporting hamas. they want the gazans to live in these situations to break their will.

why do you make excuses for israel's actions? the red cross has come out and said that the gazans are living in filthy conditions because of israel. again, why do you make excuses? it only makes you look bad.

[dub]

the least you can do is to read the report then comeback with your excuses. because it makes you sound very ignorant and an apologist when you try to come up with solutions or reason for the treatment of the palestinians when you haven't even looked at the report.

[Bonam]

they have no infrastructure. how would they build their own? in case you missed it, gaza has been hit pretty hard.

People have been building houses for themselves for thousands of years, long before anyone had anything resembling modern "infrastructure". Have you never built a shelter with your own hands?

lets not kid around here, bonam. it's easier to talk about something when all sides acknowledge the real reasons. the real reason israel is doing this is to punish the gazan people for supporting hamas.

Also a valid reason. The Gazans elected a government which has as a clear part of its mandate the genocide of the Jewish people. The people must be held responsible for what they have chosen. If it was a dictatorship and the people were unwilling pawns of Hamas, you would have a point, that it would be wrong to punish them for the actions of their government, but as you yourself often point out, Hamas was democratically elected.

why do you make excuses for israel's actions? the red cross has come out and said that the gazans are living in filthy conditions because of israel. again, why do you make excuses? it only makes you look bad.

The immediate cause of the lack of supplies in Gaza may be Israel's blockade, yes, but that is not the reason why Gazans live in poor conditions. When supplies and money and international aid do move in, it is squandered on weapons and armaments. Gazans go out from a young age to launch rockets and cheer on the militants rather than build and improve their society. They watch cartoons indoctrinating them with hate rather than teaching them about the meaningful values of life. For decades, they have raged pointlessly against Israel, rather than accepting the possibility of building their own state. They seek to destroy rather than to build. That is why they live in poor conditions.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Bonam

[dub]

People have been building houses for themselves for thousands of years, long before anyone had anything resembling modern "infrastructure". Have you never built a shelter with your own hands?

is this what it has come down to? building shelter with their own hands?

it's more than just building shelter and repairing buildings. it's also the sewage system which israel has hit.

you're making excuses.

Also a valid reason. The Gazans elected a government which has as a clear part of its mandate the genocide of the Jewish people. The people must be held responsible for what they have chosen. If it was a dictatorship and the people were unwilling pawns of Hamas, you would have a point, that it would be wrong to punish them for the actions of their government, but as you yourself often point out, Hamas was democratically elected.

so what if they don't recognize israel? that is no excuse. the likud party has vowed to never allow a palestinian state. it's in their charter.

that is a very poor excuse to try to justify what the palestinians have experienced.

The immediate cause of the lack of supplies in Gaza may be Israel's blockade, yes, but that is not the reason why Gazans live in poor conditions.

no? that's not the main reason? you're not being honest and are basically saying that the red cross and other humanitarian organizations are lying.

the biggest reason why hamas was elected was due to their social programs. because the palestinians saw them as a better alternative to the corrupt fatah. don't forget, that it wasn't just the gazans who democratically elected hamas, but it was also the people in the west bank.

anyway, there is no excusing hamas' unwillingness to change their charter. there is also no excusing israel's attack on the gazans and their continuous treatment of them now.

When supplies and money and international aid do move in, it is squandered on weapons and armaments. Gazans go out from a young age to launch rockets and cheer on the militants rather than build and improve their society. They watch cartoons indoctrinating them with hate rather than teaching them about the meaningful values of life. For decades, they have raged pointlessly against Israel, rather than accepting the possibility of building their own state. They seek to destroy rather than to build. That is why they live in poor conditions.

uhm... 'raged pointlessly against israel'. right. pointlessly. i'm sure all the rage they have now is pointless too.

i'm not interested in responding to a half-assed opinion piece which has no facts behind it. it's just another DoP-style drivel.

all i ask is for people to leave their nationalism and team cheering aside and show an objective and fair look at the situation. there is nothing wrong with criticizing something that is wrong. even if you are criticizing a team that you usually like to cheer for.

[Bonam]

it's also the sewage system which israel has hit.

All you need to re-establish a sewage system is a shovel.

the likud party has vowed to never allow a palestinian state

Netanyahu has already changed that policy by expressing willingness to support the existence of a Palestinian state in his recent speech. It was the only realist thing to do; it should be obvious to anyone that the eventual formation of a Palestinian state in Gaza and some portion of the West Bank is the only realistic course of action that has even the slightest chance of achieving lasting peace.

no? that's not the main reason? you're not being honest and are basically saying that the red cross and other humanitarian organizations are lying.

They are correct in the immediate cause, but they fail to mention why the blockade is there and why it is necessary. One event leads to another. You can't just look at a given outcome, determine its most proximal cause, and leave your analysis at that. It's like saying that a person died because they got hit by a bullet and leaving it at that. Sure, it may be true, but where did the bullet come from, and why was it fired.

uhm... 'raged pointlessly against israel'. right. pointlessly. i'm sure all the rage they have now is pointless too.

Yes, their rage is still pointless; rage is pretty much always pointless. The only way to move forward is to rationally appraise the situation and determine the course of action that would best improve their livelihoods. That course of action would be to come to another set of peace talks, drive a hard bargain, and accept the best offer that is made at the end, rather than walking out. Once they set up their state, and if peace lasts for years, they can gradually assert greater sovereignty over things like airspace and the military.

all i ask is for people to leave their nationalism and team cheering aside and show an objective and fair look at the situation. there is nothing wrong with criticizing something that is wrong. even if you are criticizing a team that you usually like to cheer for.

I criticize that which I find worthy of criticism. You, on the other hand, seem to reserve all your energies for Israel. Where were you on what the Sri Lankan government did to finish their war with the Tamils? Would you be similarly silent if Israel was to take the same approach with Gaza?

Your single minded quest is to point out every action taken by Israel that you perceive as wrongful, and to attempt to discredit any who hold an opposing viewpoint. You rarely even post on other topics. I, on the other hand, participate in a wide range of debates, including Canadian politics, events in other parts of the world, science and technology, etc, not just Israel, and I apply a consistent set of ideas in all these areas. Your rabid single mindedness when it comes to criticism of Israel clearly shows that you are the one not looking at the situation fairly, the one that is nationalistic, the one that is cheering for a certain team and booing another.

[dub]

All you need to re-establish a sewage system is a shovel.

i know you're not a civil engineer because you're making stupid comments like that.

Netanyahu has already changed that policy by expressing willingness to support the existence of a Palestinian state in his recent speech. It was the only realist thing to do; it should be obvious to anyone that the eventual formation of a Palestinian state in Gaza and some portion of the West Bank is the only realistic course of action that has even the slightest chance of achieving lasting peace.

the hamas leader has already said he is willing to accept the 1967 UN resolution which calls for recognizing the state of israel. same deal.

They are correct in the immediate cause, but they fail to mention why the blockade is there and why it is necessary. One event leads to another. You can't just look at a given outcome, determine its most proximal cause, and leave your analysis at that. It's like saying that a person died because they got hit by a bullet and leaving it at that. Sure, it may be true, but where did the bullet come from, and why was it fired.

you can't leave people in a cage like that and let them die. i'd say all of this is against international law, but you don't seem to care for it.

Yes, their rage is still pointless; rage is pretty much always pointless. The only way to move forward is to rationally appraise the situation and determine the course of action that would best improve their livelihoods. That course of action would be to come to another set of peace talks, drive a hard bargain, and accept the best offer that is made at the end, rather than walking out. Once they set up their state, and if peace lasts for years, they can gradually assert greater sovereignty over things like airspace and the military.

israel is not interested in peace talks with the elected government of the palestinians. they prefer unilateral engagement.

the palestinians are never going to accept living in an open air prison as bibi is proposing. if that's the best offer, i'm sure many would agree that they can shove the offer up their ass.

I criticize that which I find worthy of criticism. You, on the other hand, seem to reserve all your energies for Israel. Where were you on what the Sri Lankan government did to finish their war with the Tamils? Would you be similarly silent if Israel was to take the same approach with Gaza?

huh? two different issues and i never agreed with how the sri lankans handled the situation and i certainly never agreed with tamil's actions in the past. it's okay to criticize all sides and not just one. i have never stopped short of criticizing hamas for anything illegal that they've done. so i'm not sure what you're babbling about.

Your single minded quest is to point out every action taken by Israel that you perceive as wrongful, and to attempt to discredit any who hold an opposing viewpoint. You rarely even post on other topics. I, on the other hand, participate in a wide range of debates, including Canadian politics, events in other parts of the world, science and technology, etc, not just Israel, and I apply a consistent set of ideas in all these areas. Your rabid single mindedness when it comes to criticism of Israel clearly shows that you are the one not looking at the situation fairly, the one that is nationalistic, the one that is cheering for a certain team and booing another.

what are you talking about? how do you know i don't talk about other issues?

i talk about issues with international law as the main factor when it comes to what is right and what is wrong. you, on the other hand, prefer to pick and choose when it applies and when it doesn't.

[Bonam]

i know you're not a civil engineer because you're making stupid comments like that.

Civil engineer? You engineer stuff when you have an advanced civilization and an industrial base. When you need to get rid of the sewage in your streets, you really, honestly, just need guys with shovels.

what are you talking about? how do you know i don't talk about other issues?

Umm, I read these forums? You may talk about other issues occasionally, but by far your predominant agenda is critiquing Israel.

i talk about issues with international law as the main factor when it comes to what is right and what is wrong. you, on the other hand, prefer to pick and choose when it applies and when it doesn't.

Law tells you what is legal and what is illegal, not what is right and what is wrong. Or do you think because something is "the law" it is automatically right?

Edited July 3, 2009 by Bonam

[KrustyKidd]

you can't leave people in a cage like that and let them die. i'd say all of this is against international law, but you don't seem to care for it.

But Dub, don't Palestinians want to die? Fathi Hammad, one of their MPs says “We desire death like you desire life.”

[bush_cheney2004]

But Dub, don't Palestinians want to die? Fathi Hammad, one of their MPs says “We desire death like you desire life.”

Also echoed by The Black Watch, 3 Scots in Afghanistan.....

"They fight to die.... we fight to live."

[dub]

But Dub, don't Palestinians want to die? Fathi Hammad, one of their MPs says “We desire death like you desire life.”

if palestinians wanted to die, there would be no conflict at the moment.

despite all the shit that the zionists have put them through in the past 60+ years, they've managed to remain strong and defiant. that's a characteristic of a people who want to live.

[KrustyKidd]

if palestinians wanted to die, there would be no conflict at the moment.

despite all the shit that the zionists have put them through in the past 60+ years, they've managed to remain strong and defiant. that's a characteristic of a people who want to live.

So why is the leader saying the people want to die? If they don't, then he is full of shit and, using them as propaganda and human shields.

[Argus]

Sarah McLachlan used the occasion of Canada Day to campaign on behalf of PETA and against he seal hunt. She called the hunt archaic and horrible and said she wanted it to stop.

To me, this kind of epitomizes a kind of comfortable liberal urbanite mentality. These are people wholly unfamiliar with hunger, fear, cold or any kind of threat. They are generally poorly educated about the world around them, uninterested in educating themselves, and easily influenced by emotional or dramatic appeals.

These, of course, are precisely the people who involve themselves in causes. Every NGO in the world is filled with them. Weak minded people who fixate on this or that cause, mostly influenced by emotion. All the human rights "agencies" are filled with such people, many of them swollen with an absurdly high opinion of themselves and their supposed nobility.

Israel has become the focus of such people for one reason only; it's the media capital of the world. Horrible things happen everywhere, but the comfortable liberals don't ever see it on their TV sets so remain unconcerned. But the world media finds Israel a comfortable location to shoot from, and so breathlessly cover ever item of violence they can spin out to the world at large. If it bleeds it leads, and drama requires a good guy and a bad guy. Clearly, to the liberal media pack, the guys in uniforms are bad, because they've got the power. And that's the way the media pack has thought since Vietnam.

Weak minded people see the continuous coverage and think Israel must be the epicenter of the world or something, that the violence and "human rights" conditions must be the most horrific anywhere. In reality, there are easily fifty countries in the world whose citizens could only dream of living as well as Palestinians. But they don't have the five star hotels and modern technology to please the plastic faces and thousand dollar haircuts of the international media.

[dub]

Sarah McLachlan used the occasion of Canada Day to campaign on behalf of PETA and against he seal hunt. She called the hunt archaic and horrible and said she wanted it to stop.

To me, this kind of epitomizes a kind of comfortable liberal urbanite mentality. These are people wholly unfamiliar with hunger, fear, cold or any kind of threat. They are generally poorly educated about the world around them, uninterested in educating themselves, and easily influenced by emotional or dramatic appeals.

These, of course, are precisely the people who involve themselves in causes. Every NGO in the world is filled with them. Weak minded people who fixate on this or that cause, mostly influenced by emotion. All the human rights "agencies" are filled with such people, many of them swollen with an absurdly high opinion of themselves and their supposed nobility.

Israel has become the focus of such people for one reason only; it's the media capital of the world. Horrible things happen everywhere, but the comfortable liberals don't ever see it on their TV sets so remain unconcerned. But the world media finds Israel a comfortable location to shoot from, and so breathlessly cover ever item of violence they can spin out to the world at large. If it bleeds it leads, and drama requires a good guy and a bad guy. Clearly, to the liberal media pack, the guys in uniforms are bad, because they've got the power. And that's the way the media pack has thought since Vietnam.

Weak minded people see the continuous coverage and think Israel must be the epicenter of the world or something, that the violence and "human rights" conditions must be the most horrific anywhere. In reality, there are easily fifty countries in the world whose citizens could only dream of living as well as Palestinians. But they don't have the five star hotels and modern technology to please the plastic faces and thousand dollar haircuts of the international media.

who cares about PETA.

when people are suffering from the actions of others, something needs to be done.

there are human rights violations all over the world. some worse than what is happening to the gazans. but what separates those incidents is that western governments don't support those human rights violations. also, those who are committing them do not receive $3billion a year from the U.S.

what is happening in that region is one of the biggest reasons we have extremism today, on all sides. it fans the flames of extremism. because it clearly shows that western countries don't practice what they preach. if they supported an end to human rights violations, they would not support israel's treatment of palestinians.

[KrustyKidd]

who cares about PETA.

when people are suffering from the actions of others, something needs to be done.

I agree for once. Time for me to join you in the fight to get Hamas to stop putting their people at risk by using their neighborhoods as military bases.

[Bonam]

who cares about PETA.

when people are suffering from the actions of others, something needs to be done.

I agree for once. Time for me to join you in the fight to get Hamas to stop putting their people at risk by using their neighborhoods as military bases.

Unfortunately, what he really means is:

when people are suffering from the actions of Jews, something needs to be done.

First page of the "Rest of the World" board, 6 threads by dub, every single one about some minor offense allegedly committed by Israel. Not a word for the deaths of thousands of civilians in Sri Lanka, not a word for the repression in Tibet, not a word for the violent crackdown on protesters in Iran by militia thugs. Not a word for one of any of dozens of conflicts in Africa which have claimed millions of lives and subjected millions of others to utterly inhuman conditions, infinitely worse than anything the Palestinians face.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Unfortunately, what he really means is:

when people are suffering from the actions of Jews, something needs to be done....

Yes, you have distilled this sentiment very well. Human suffering on a much larger scale is an an acceptable level of misery.....unless at the hands of Jews/Israel.....that.....is intolerable!

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, you have distilled this sentiment very well. Human suffering on a much larger scale is an an acceptable level of misery.....unless at the hands of Jews/Israel.....that.....is intolerable!

We gotta remember: Zionists Jews are a cancer on the World. What do we expect??

[M.Dancer]

no thanx! says bonam.

where do you suggest the people whose buildings have been demolish should sleep? they've been sleeping in tents for over 4 months.

Tents were good enough for them for 4 thousand years....when they embrace 21st century civilization they might get a roof.