Red Cross report: Gazans ‘in despair’

[OddSox]

Um, could they not get their supplies from Egypt? Seems to me that there is a perfectly usable border there...

[DogOnPorch]

Um, could they not get their supplies from Egypt? Seems to me that there is a perfectly usable border there...

The Egyptian government isn't too keen on the Palestinian Arabs for a couple of reasons...

1] These guys pretty much are the cause of all of Egypt's recent woes. Hind-sight is 20/20 and had the Arab world told the Grand Mufti to shut-the-hell-up re: the creation of Israel, numerous destructive Arab-Israeli Wars would have never happened.

2] Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel which is linked to US Aid. They really don't want to upset THAT apple cart by pissing off either the US or Israel too much. Plus, they note what happened to Lebanon and Jordan when they tried to help the Palestinian cause.

That doesn't stop gangsters and such making a mint smuggling stuff into Gaza, though. Plus, on occasion, they do open the Rafah Crossing for this or that reason.

[dub]

The Egyptian government isn't too keen on the Palestinian Arabs for a couple of reasons...

2] Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel which is linked to US Aid. They really don't want to upset THAT apple cart by pissing off either the US or Israel too much. Plus, they note what happened to Lebanon and Jordan when they tried to help the Palestinian cause.

agreed on #2.

the mubarak loves the $ he's getting.

[KrustyKidd]

if palestinians wanted to die, there would be no conflict at the moment.

Fathi Hammad “We desire death like you desire life.”

Their own leaders are lying about life and death and you blame Israel.

Incredible. :angry:

[kuzadd]

the reports keep coming and the apologists keep making excuses.

Dub: is this the report, or was it another one, that also stated Hamas did NOT use human shields and in fact the evidence of using Palestinians at human shields, pointed to Israel using them as human shields

Yes, Israel using Palestinians, as human shields.

And not for the first time I may add.

[M.Dancer]

Dub: is this the report, or was it another one, that also stated Hamas did NOT use human shields and in fact the evidence of using Palestinians at human shields, pointed to Israel using them as human shields

Yes, Israel using Palestinians, as human shields.

And not for the first time I may add.

Or it could have been even the other report that said that and stated that jews use the blood of arab babies to make passover matzah.

And just yesterday Dub was claiming no one denies Arab war crimes.......and here we are with another terrorist booster denying arab war crimes.

I eagerly await Dubs's call to arms as he vigoursly pursues the topic, as we all know, he is against war crimes.

[kuzadd]

hey dub: it was not a red cross report, it was a report put out by Amnesty International

Amnesty accuses Israel of using human shields in Gaza

JERUSALEM (AFP) — Amnesty International on Thursday accused Israeli forces of war crimes, saying they used children as human shields and conducted wanton attacks on civilians during their offensive in the Gaza Strip.

The London-based human rights group also accused Hamas of war crimes, but said it found no evidence that the Islamist rulers of Gaza used civilians as human shields during the 22-day offensive Israel launched on December 28.

It also reiterated its call for an international arms embargo against Israel.

"Much of the destruction was wanton and resulted from direct attacks on civilian objects," Amnesty said in a study.

Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, "effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk," the group said.

"Intentionally using civilians to shield a military objective, often referred to as using 'human shields' is a war crime," Amnesty said.

http://blogs.reuters.com/axismundi/2009/07...he-firing-line/

there was also a report by an Israeli human rights group Gisha, condemning the blockade

"One, by the Israeli human rights group Gisha, criticises Israel’s policy of banning Palestinians from leaving the Gaza strip."

Dub, I am going to see if I can find an interesting little video done by CBS, I think... going on recall

If I can, I will post the link

[kuzadd]

Hey Dub:

here it is, and I got to tell you I was shocked that CBS did this piece, it is mild, it doesn't mention Gaza at all, only focus's on the west bank as the Palestinian state, but, nonetheless, interesting piece.

check it out:

Is Peace Out Of Reach?

showing Israeli soldiers just entering apartments and imprisoning people in their own homes, they cannot leave house, or speak to other people.

give it a watch.

[kuzadd]

oh and dub, share your thoughts, please and thanks

[dub]

Dub: is this the report, or was it another one, that also stated Hamas did NOT use human shields and in fact the evidence of using Palestinians at human shields, pointed to Israel using them as human shields

Yes, Israel using Palestinians, as human shields.

And not for the first time I may add.

i'm referring to the amnesty report that the same war crime apologists like DoP, krusty, bonam and dancer try to deny.

[M.Dancer]

There you go lying again...

I have never denied there was a report by HRW.

[dub]

There you go lying again...

I have never denied there was a report by HRW.

right.

you've denied the conclusion of the report that israel has committed war crimes.

because, you know, amnesty, red cross and HRW are all jew hating anti-semites.

[dub]

Hey Dub:

here it is, and I got to tell you I was shocked that CBS did this piece, it is mild, it doesn't mention Gaza at all, only focus's on the west bank as the Palestinian state, but, nonetheless, interesting piece.

check it out:

Is Peace Out Of Reach?

showing Israeli soldiers just entering apartments and imprisoning people in their own homes, they cannot leave house, or speak to other people.

give it a watch.

it's nice to see a main channel covering this.

the zionist apologists don't miss an opportunity to try to turn the table and try to avoid the obvious, when faced with facts. all of this talk about hamas using people as human shield while israel has been accused of doing it by human rights organizations and even by its own court.

[M.Dancer]

right.

you've denied the conclusion of the report that israel has committed war crimes.

because, you know, amnesty, red cross and HRW are all jew hating anti-semites.

Of course I deny the conclusions.

Any one with a shade of common sense can see that their interpretations of the GC is flawed, using the most extreme interpretations of the articles which surely was not the intention of the authors and which is why no one except the nattering nobodies who know nothing take them seriously and never will Israel be asked to defend their actions in court based on the assinine extrapolations of biased anti israel advocacy groups like HRW.

But they are good for a laugh as the clowns amongst us get all apoplectic of some perceived injustice prepared judiciously on youtube or elsewhere and think it has some weight of law behind it and is something more than simply a propaganda tool .....but please don't expect to be taken anymore seriously than a court jester...

[kuzadd]

In Israel, they talk about it in their own press.

only here is the fanatical, unquestioning support so strong, that reality has to be denied.

[M.Dancer]

In Israel, they talk about it in their own press.

only here is the fanatical, unquestioning support so strong, that reality has to be denied.

From your post that I read I would bow to your expertise on the subject of denying relaity and replacing it with your own.

[dub]

Of course I deny the conclusions.

Any one with a shade of common sense can see that their interpretations of the GC is flawed, using the most extreme interpretations of the articles which surely was not the intention of the authors and which is why no one except the nattering nobodies who know nothing take them seriously and never will Israel be asked to defend their actions in court based on the assinine extrapolations of biased anti israel advocacy groups like HRW.

But they are good for a laugh as the clowns amongst us get all apoplectic of some perceived injustice prepared judiciously on youtube or elsewhere and think it has some weight of law behind it and is something more than simply a propaganda tool .....but please don't expect to be taken anymore seriously than a court jester...

i'm sure there were a few apologists who reacted the same as you to the amnesty report on apartheid south africa as well.

by the way, you're mixing up HRW and amnesty. but what does it matter anyway? any criticism of israel's actions is not worth looking into.

dancer's conclusion: amnesty, red cross and HRW are all jew haters who don't know what they're doing.

thanx for coming back for a good laugh.

[M.Dancer]

i'm sure there were a few apologists who reacted the same as you to the amnesty report on apartheid south africa as well.

They did a report on Apartheid?

Francis Boyle: Sure, you’ll see a pretty good coincidence of the enemies that Amnesty International goes after and the interests of both the United States and British governments. Let’s take an older example — apartheid in South Africa under the former criminal regime in South Africa. Amnesty International refused adamantly to condemn apartheid in South Africa. Despite my best efforts while I was on the board, and other board members, they would not do it. They are the only human rights organization in the entire world to have refused to condemn apartheid in South Africa

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...y_International

"Amnesty International is primarily motivated not by human rights but by publicity. Second comes money. Third comes getting more members. Fourth, internal turf battles. And then finally, human rights, genuine human rights concerns.

Is it any wonder only the nattering know nothings give them an ear?

Edited July 9, 2009 by M.Dancer

[dub]

They did a report on Apartheid?

Francis Boyle: Sure, you’ll see a pretty good coincidence of the enemies that Amnesty International goes after and the interests of both the United States and British governments. Let’s take an older example — apartheid in South Africa under the former criminal regime in South Africa. Amnesty International refused adamantly to condemn apartheid in South Africa. Despite my best efforts while I was on the board, and other board members, they would not do it. They are the only human rights organization in the entire world to have refused to condemn apartheid in South Africa

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...y_International

Is it any wonder only the nattering know nothings give them an ear?

that's good.

look at what else Francis Boyle has said:

Israel's Crimes against Palestinians: War Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity, Genocide

by Francis A. Boyle

The International Laws of Belligerent Occupation

Belligerent occupation is governed by The Hague Regulations of 1907, as well as by the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, and the customary laws of belligerent occupation. Security Council Resolution 1322 (2000), paragraph 3 continued: "Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and its responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in a Time of War of 12 August 1949;..." Again, the Security Council vote was 14 to 0, becoming obligatory international law.

The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are "protected persons" within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.

There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes.

So this is not a symmetrical situation. As matters of fact and of law, the gross and repeated violations of Palestinian rights by the Israeli army and Israeli settlers living illegally in occupied Palestine constitute war crimes. Conversely, the Palestinian People are defending Themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian.

The U.N. Human Rights Commission

Indeed, it is far more serious than that. On 19 October 2000 a Special Session of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights adopted a Resolution set forth in U.N. Document E/CN.4/S-5/L.2/Rev. 1, "Condemning the provocative visit to Al-Haram Al-Sharif on 28 September 2000 by Ariel Sharon, the Likud party leader, which triggered the tragic events that followed in occupied East Jerusalem and the other occupied Palestinian territories, resulting in a high number of deaths and injuries among Palestinian civilians." The U.N. Human Rights Commission then said it was "[g]ravely concerned" about several different types of atrocities inflicted by Israel upon the Palestinian People, which it denominated "war crimes, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and crimes against humanity."

In operative paragraph 1 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission then: "Strongly condemns the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force in violation of international humanitarian law by the Israeli occupying Power against innocent and unarmed Palestinian civilians...including many children, in the occupied territories, which constitutes a war crime and a crime against humanity;..." And in paragraph 5 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission: "Also affirms that the deliberate and systematic killing of civilians and children by the Israeli occupying authorities constitutes a flagrant and grave violation of the right to life and also constitutes a crime against humanity;..." Article 68 of the United Nations Charter had expressly required the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council to "set up" this Commission "for the promotion of human rights."

Israel's War Crimes against Palestinians

We all have a general idea of what a war crime is, so I am not going to elaborate upon that term here. But there are different degrees of heinousness for war crimes. In particular are the more serious war crimes denominated "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the start of the Al Aqsa Intifada, the world has seen those inflicted every day by Israel against the Palestinian People living in occupied Palestine: e.g., willful killing of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli army and Israel's illegal paramilitary settlers. These Israeli "grave breaches" of the Fourth Geneva Convention mandate universal prosecution for their perpetrators, whether military or civilian, as well as prosecution for their commanders, whether military or civilian, including Israel's political leaders.

Israel's Crimes Against Humanity against Palestinians

But I want to focus for a moment on Israel's "crime against humanity" against the Palestinian People -- as determined by the U.N. Human Rights Commission itself, set up pursuant to the requirements of the United Nations Charter. What is a "crime against humanity"? This concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals. And in the Nuremberg Charter of 1945, drafted by the United States Government, there was created and inserted a new type of international crime specifically intended to deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish People.

The paradigmatic example of a "crime against humanity" is what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People. This is where the concept of crime against humanity came from. And this is what the U.N. Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian People: Crimes against humanity. Legally, just like what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jews.

The Precursor to Genocide

Moreover, a crime against humanity is the direct historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The theory here was that what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People required a special international treaty that would codify and universalize the Nuremberg concept of "crime against humanity." And that treaty ultimately became the 1948 Genocide Convention.

In fairness, you will note that the U.N. Human Rights Commission did not go so far as to condemn Israel for committing genocide against the Palestinian People. But it has condemned Israel for committing crimes against humanity, which is the direct precursor to genocide. And I submit that if something is not done quite soon by the American People and the International Community to stop Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian People, it could very well degenerate into genocide, if Israel is not there already. And in this regard, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is what international lawyers call a genocidaire--one who has already committed genocide in the past.

Mr. Francis A. Boyle is a Professor in International Law.

thanx for coming out.

about amnesty and apartheid south africa; why don't we see what the anti-apartheid committee chairman has to say about them:

ANTI-APARTHEID COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT ON AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL REPORT

GA/AP/784, 24 January 1978

The following statement was made today by the Chairman of the Special Committee Against Apartheid, Leslie O. Harriman (Nigeria):

The Special Committee against Apartheid notes with satisfaction that Amnesty International issued a special report on 18 January on "Political Imprisonment in South Africa" and invited all its national sections to launch a world-wide campaign for release of prisoners of conscience, repeal of discriminatory and repressive legislation and an end to torture in South Africa. The report rightly points out that "no reforms in the present structure will be sufficiently far-reaching to remove the causes of political imprisonment unless the whole system of apartheid is dismantled".

you've embarrassed yourself enough. i think it's time for you to take another leave.

Edited July 9, 2009 by dub

[M.Dancer]

you've embarrassed yourself enough. i think it's time for you to take another leave.

I'm not the one looking stupid.

Show me where AI condemns apartheid. Obviously you accept Boyle's credentials being a died in the wool commie...but you don't accept his pronouncement on AI?

[Bonam]

look at what else Francis Boyle has said:

Let's look shall we...

Boyle believes that the United States is illegally occupying the state of Hawaii and has encouraged Native Hawaiians to press for independence and urged them to unilaterally proclaim their own state on the model of the Palestinians.[1]

Boyle also stated that Amnesty international was instrumental in publicizing the "Iraqi soldiers dumping children from incubators in Kuwait" hoax.[2]

He has urged Iran to sue the United States in the International Court of Justice in The Hague in order to discourage a military attack on Iran's nuclear facilities and prevent the imposition of new sanctions by the U.N. Security Council.[3]

Boyle has compared Israel to Nazi Germany[4] and said that he is ready to "represent Iran in an international tribunal for trying the Zionist regime on charges of genocide of Palestinians",[5] which he accuses the US to support.[6]

The government of Sri Lanka consider Professor Francis Boyle to be a pro LTTE activist [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle

Links to original sources are included in the article, so no mindless bashing on wikipedia.

This is not a man to take seriously.

[M.Dancer]

Let's look shall we...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle

Links to original sources are included in the article, so no mindless bashing on wikipedia.

This is not a man to take seriously.

But he does condem israel....so he will still be loved.

[dub]

Let's look shall we...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle

Links to original sources are included in the article, so no mindless bashing on wikipedia.

This is not a man to take seriously.

this man has a lot of opinions. mr. dancer was the one who used his comment to try to discredit Amnesty International. dancer, bent himself over and gave it to himself.

do you also have the same feelings as dancer about amnesty?

[dub]

But he does condem israel....so he will still be loved.

you're the one who used his opinion to discredit amnesty. do you agree with him or not?

[Bonam]

you're the one who used his opinion to discredit amnesty. do you agree with him or not?

Amnesty, like HRW, and any other organization, is imperfect. Some of their intentions are good, and some of their statements are correct. Others are politicized and misrepresent the reality. Their reports are not to be taken as gospel. One can check the facts for themselves with a variety of other information sources and form their own opinions.