August1991 Posted April 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) GostHacked, You post two links that entirely miss the point. Vietnam was a battle in a larger war. And America won the Cold War. For the good of us all. ====== As a young Canadian, I have now been to Vietnam, and to Washington DC - and to small towns in Wisconsin. I've been to Eastern Europe, even Russia. I''m thankful, for these young American guys and what they did in Vietnam. Edited April 2, 2019 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 9 hours ago, August1991 said: Vietnam was a battle in a larger war. And America won the Cold War. For the good of us all. Naw the other side just gave up a Cold Battle in a Human War that's still underway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 4/2/2019 at 11:14 AM, eyeball said: Naw the other side just gave up a Cold Battle in a Human War that's still underway. No, eyeball, make no mistake. America won. The Soviet Union is no more and Vietnam/China use the market system. ======= What's the meme? Only Socialists/Leftists/Democrats hate America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) On 4/4/2019 at 2:31 AM, August1991 said: No, eyeball, make no mistake. America won. The Soviet Union is no more and Vietnam/China use the market system. ======= What's the meme? Only Socialists/Leftists/Democrats hate America. America lost in Vietnam, they won the Cold War by opening up China. Opening up China and winning the Cold War does not equal victory in Vietnam. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 4 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: America lost in Vietnam, they won the Cold War by opening up China. Opening up China and winning the Cold War does not equal victory in Vietnam. Nobody won in Viet-Nam. South Viet-Nam is gone. As corrupt as it was, a damn sight better than the Communist regime in Hanoi. North Viet-Nam lost every battle except the last offensive...losing countless numbers of soldiers. Not to mention the country itself getting bombed to dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Nobody won in Viet-Nam. South Viet-Nam is gone. As corrupt as it was, a damn sight better than the Communist regime in Hanoi. North Viet-Nam lost every battle except the last offensive...losing countless numbers of soldiers. Not to mention the country itself getting bombed to dust. Last I checked, when the opponents corner throws in the towel, you win. The American Media and the American electorate threw in the towel. North Vietnam ate the punishment, kept on coming, and never quit, so they won. North Vietnam would have quit eventually, but America quit before they did, media declared the war was already lost and they convinced the electorate, North Vietnamese Psyops FTW. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Last I checked, when the opponents corner throws in the towel, you win. The American Media and the American electorate threw in the towel. North Vietnam ate the punishment, kept on coming, and never quit, so they won. North Vietnam would have quit eventually, but America quit before they did, media declared the war was already lost and they convinced the electorate, North Vietnamese Psyops FTW. America didn't lose militarily. Things went south AFTER they left. America lost at home with the Peace Movement that had little clue as to what was actually going-on in the Cold War. That said, the US pursued this war like a drunken idiot. Too much caring what the media says and not enough war winning moves...like blocking the trail permanently. Edited April 8, 2019 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: America didn't lose militarily. Things went south AFTER they left. America lost at home with the Peace Movement that had little clue as to what was actually going-on in the Cold War. That said, the US pursued this war like a drunken idiot. Too much caring what the media says and not enough war winning moves...like blocking the trail permanently. Ain't that what the f*ck I just said? A short lived victory for North Vietnam, but a victory nonetheless, even if they payed a whole hell of a lot to get it. America hasn't been the same ever since, haunted by the ghost of defeat in Vietnam. Now America is searching for a Vietnam Do-Over, so they can do it right this time, to exorcise that demon once and for all. *cough* Iraq *cough* Better luck next time America. lulz Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Ain't that what the f*ck I just said? A short lived victory, but a victory nonetheless, and America hasn't been the same ever since, haunted by the ghost of defeat in Vietnam. Now America is searching for a Vietnam Do-Over, so they can do it right this time, to exorcise that demon once and for all. *cough* Iraq *cough* That the NVA renamed the ancient city of Saigon after their war-starting demagogue Uncle Ho says all that needs to be said about the so-called victors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: That the NVA renamed the ancient city of Saigon after their war-starting demagogue Uncle Ho says all that needs to be said about the so-called victors. Wasn't Ho who fought America, that was Le Duan. Ho Chi Minh was just the figurehead of the regime at that point, Le Duan was running the show. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Wasn't Ho who fought America, that was Le Duan. Ho started the war. Various underlings follow orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Ho started the war. Various underlings follow orders. Le Duan started the war. Ho Chi Minh didn't want to fight America, he loved America, it was them who inspired him to overthrow the French. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Le Duan started the war. Ho Chi Minh didn't want to fight America, he loved America. Le Duan wasn't even in office when the war started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Le Duan wasn't even in office when the war started. Le Duan was running the show long before he officially took over. Ho Chi Minh wanted peaceful co-existence, it was Le Duan who said f*ck that, we're taking it all. Ho Chi Minh sided with the Soviets, Le Duan with the Chinese, and North Vietnam went the Chinese path, because Le Duan was the one actually running chit. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Viet-Nam War starts 1959. Le Duan became General Secretary in 1960. Ho died in 1969...Le Duan becomes king. Your dates don't match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Viet-Nam War starts 1959. Le Duan became General Secretary in 1960. Ho died in 1969...Le Duan becomes king. Your dates don't match. Le Duan was running things long before he officially took power, Ho Chi Minh was not running things at that point, despite his more impressive title. Ho Chi Minh was the figurehead, Le Duan and his Chinese backers are the villian here, not Ho Chi "Peaceful Co-existence" Minh and the Soviets. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Le Duan was running things long before he officially took power, Ho Chi Minh was not running things at that point, despite his more impressive title. Trudeau isn't really responsible for the scandal...that was Butts! You're playing pass-the-buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Trudeau isn't really responsible for the scandal...that was Butts! You're playing pass-the-buck. I am placing the blame where it belongs, on the dude actually running things, not the figurehead who opposed what the dude who was actually running chit was doing. If it was up to Ho Chi Minh, it would have been peaceful co-existence, but Le Duan wasn't about to let that happen, and Le Duan won, because he actually ran things, not Ho Chi Minh. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: I am placing the blame where it belongs, on the dude actually running things, not the figurehead who actually opposed what the dude who was running shit was doing. If it was up to Ho Chi Minh, it would have been peaceful co-existence, but Le Duan wasn't about to let that happen. Whatever...in that case Guderian started WW2 in Europe. Not that Hitler figurehead. So if that's the game you wish to play...oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Whatever...in that case Guderian started WW2 in Europe. Not that Hitler figurehead. So if that's the game you wish to play...oh well. Actually that was Winston Churchill. He started WWII, not Adolf Hitler. Britain and France declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Actually that was Winston Churchill. He started WWII, not Adolf Hitler. Britain and France declared war on Germany, not the other way around. I think Poland has a different view of your 'who started WW2' theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I think Poland has a different view of your 'who started WW2' theory. Declaring war on Poland isn't a World War, that's a mere continental war. The British Empire that spans the globe declaring war on Germany, that is a World War. Churchill started it to defend neutral Poland, just as he started WWI to defend neutral Belgium, before that, it was just going to be Franco-Prussian War Part Deux. Winston Churchill is the greatest warmonger of the 20th Century. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: Declaring war on Poland isn't a World War, that continental war. The British Empire that spans the globe declaring war on Germany, that is a World War. Uhhh...Japan was already a very busy bee. And Germany was well aware of the alliances that faced it re: Poland. WW2 started when it did, Not when you say it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Uhhh...Japan was already a very busy bee. And Germany was well aware of the alliances that faced it re: Poland. WW2 started when it did, Not when you say it did. Japan fighting China is not a world war. Germany fighting Poland is not a world war. When the globe spanning empire enters the war, that's when it becomes a World War. Churchill is the biggest warmonger of the 20th Century, and the most overrated political leader of the 20th century. Britain declared war Germany in both World Wars, not the other way around. Britain started both World Wars, they just blame Germany as a scapegoat. Edited April 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Japan fighting China is not a world war. Germany fighting Poland is not a world war. When the globe spanning empire enters the war, that's when it becomes a World War. You're free to rewrite history to suit. I'll stick with the agreed upon starting points and causes for both Viet-Nam & WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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