Election 2009

[Argus]

As much as I don't subscribe to the NDP's policies, I give them credit for standing by their principles. They are steady in opposition and you always know where they're coming from.

I don't see voting "no" to every single thing, sight unseen, regardless of whether an election will hammer your party, is something to get credit for. :-P

[Smallc]

It was unnecessary....just as this one would be.

[madmax]

I bet if I look back to the last time I'll find you complaining about the tories holding an unnecessary election.

The September Election was unnecessary?

1) Harper NO (Wanted it Real bad, screw what the electorate Think)

2) Dion NO (Wanted it Real bad, Screw the planning for it, just think Carbon tax)

3) Layton Yes (Why have an election, when you have your Liberal Lapdogs voting with you 100% of the time)

Coalition November

1) Harper NO

2) Dion Yes

3) Layton Yes

Prorogue December

1) Harper YES

2) Dion/Ignatief NO

3) Layton NO

Coalition January

1) Harper NO

2) Ignatief NO (I changed my mind)

3) Layton Yes

Election January

1) Harper Yes

2) Ignatief NO (I changed my mind, I respect the electorate, at this time, right now, today, really I do)

3) Layton NO

Election June

1) Harper (NO, But ready to go)

2) Ignatief (YES, but will back down) Liberal record is 100% in support of Conservative Policies.

3) Layton (NO, but ready to go) NDP record is 100% against Conservative/Liberal supported policies.

Definitely an unnecessary election and the public mood is UGLY. The public didn't want an election in September, and they stayed home. I expect a possible backlash on the party that puts the country into an election.

Two Problems.

1) If Harper isn't pulling a yarn about the dispersements being 80% accounted for, then Ignatief cannot call an election based upon the slow process of stimulus spending.

2) If Harper has mislead the public, an election will not get the monies out any faster.

As for the NDP, I have heard they are not going to blink. Most of their MPs seats are safe and likely to grow in support in an election and they will concentrate on holding ground. Its easier to concentrate resources in 37 ridings, then it 308 ridings.

The NDP are threatened by both the LPC and the CPC in various ridings, but they could just as easily hold or lose those seats in 2 years, so there is no reason to worry about timing.

The LPC might gain some seats, possibly get up to 90 seats.

To the LPC, I see them backing down, tails between their legs, and puffing and huffing all summer.

A party without principles isn't going to call an election. Most of this is posturing and media spin.

The only people that I hear say the NDP are going to support the CPC is coming from LPC supporters. There is nothing buzzing in NDP circles that I am aware of that suggest there is some "Martin" deal in the works.

No one is backing down, I don't see the CPC moving any issue, including EI Reform.

Operative word is

BOO!

Edited June 15, 2009 by madmax

[madmax]

I don't see voting "no" to every single thing, sight unseen, regardless of whether an election will hammer your party, is something to get credit for. :-P

Nothing is sight unseen.

Everything goes through committees and all the parties know what is coming through the tubes by the 3rd reading. It is rare that anything is presented in 3rd reading that wasn't already acce[ted in committee. Thus, there is nothing but posturing, when a party says, I am going to wait and see whats there.

If there was some "Socialist Suprise" in the last budget, the NDP would likely have voted for it. But the budget was simply a pork budget. Last minute corporate welfare handouts and handing out money to banks.

It was a Liberal/Conservative Trudeau/Mulroney budget.

Who would support that other then Liberals and Conservatives?

[Argus]

Nothing is sight unseen.

They announced they were going to vote against the budget before it was read. They announced they would vote against the update the instant it came out - all 237 pages of it. As far as I'm aware, they've voted against every tory policy initiative.

[Topaz]

Perhaps the reasons the opposition is complaining about the money going out is that it isn't going to the oppositions areas, at least, not right away as it is going to the Tories riding areas. We got our three weeks ago, any of you seen any money for your area and if so what party is the MP in your area?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The NDP knew well enough what was in the report, so did the Bloc. The Liberals are playing with optics and wanted time to take a fresh gauge of the public. We shall see later today what happens. I want to see the end of Harper, but that remains to be seen as well.

[Dave_ON]

I'm willing to bet you've never said one thing about reforming EI, and never even had the idea until Ignatieff raised it. Which isn't odd given the Liberals never said one thing about the system either. Why would they? They created it! Failure to get cheques out? So you put everything on hold for three or four months to speed it up? LOL.

As far as "scandals" go. I'll take the Tory "scandals" which generally involve someone saying something which offends people, to Liberal scandals which generally involve truckloads of money going out the back door to friends and campaign contributors.

Actually holding a summer election would not hold things up in the least. After this week Parliament is on three month summer break anyway, so things were already slated to be held up. If the Grits form a minority, which seems likely at this point, it gives them the entire summer to organize caucus and appoint ministers. The timing couldn't be more perfect. With economic recovery slated to be felt in the general populace come 1st quarter 2010 and the winter Olympics things are looking very good for the Liberals.

As for Tory scandals, well it's too soon to say they haven't had any money scandals. They are still incumbent and no one else has had a chance to audit the books. I think we're in for a far less rosy fiscal picture when the CPC is booted out the door. This too will work to the LPC’s advantage as the CPC will wear the deficit not the Liberals. Say what you want about Trudeau and his debt; Ancient history in election terms.

Reality is, the CPC's took power because of the timing of the Ad Scam, that horse is long dead and what people do know is, the economy is bad, people need EI that aren't getting it and the Liberals have been very vocal about getting it to those in need. Harper hasn't recovered from the fall disaster and has made one blunder after another in his quest to destroy the Liberals and hang on to power.

One last thought, I wonder that if Ignatieff does table a no confidence motion if Mr. Harper will run to the GG again and ask to prorogue parliament for the summer. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he did but I’m certain the GG’s response this time would be a flat out no.

[Dave_ON]

No it didn't work, they won two extra seats as the Cons support fell out of the basket. It takes the whole Federal Liberal party to come to NS and increase their seat total by 10% and have them dip from 32% in the polls when Iggy came to 27% on election day? That is a victory for Iggy and the Federal party who weren't shy about sticking their noise in a provincial campaign? Scott Brison, Ken Dryden, Bob Rea, Iggy, Mike Savage, Geoff Reagan, and all their political organizer came and they lost votes from the time the election was called too election day. Spin it all you want it was a loss for the federal party, maybe a win for the terrible provincial party but a loss for a Federal one. Harper didn't come, Layton didn't come only Iggy and he lost votes.

Ignatieff wouldn't have came to NS if he didn't have a blind hate for the NDP. He cost himself some political capital pouring federal resources in NS only to lose big. NDP majority government on the East coast no less, is no win for the Liberals.

Hate to break it to you but NS is a drop in the political bucket when it comes to federal politics. The only places less significant than NS in terms of seat count are PE and NF. Even if you combine all the seats in the Atlantic Provinces it's not enough to sway the federal government one way or the other. I honestly don't think Ignatieff is that concerned about NS. Especially since NF is a foregone conclusion and NB is beginning to turn red too. Ontario, Quebec and BC are the real battle grounds, the rest of Canada need not vote. That's not arrogance talking; it's the reality of representation by population.

[madmax]

They announced they were going to vote against the budget before it was read. They announced they would vote against the update the instant it came out - all 237 pages of it. As far as I'm aware, they've voted against every tory policy initiative.

Yes, but you know well enough, that there was nothing in the budget or in the update that would receive the support of the NDP. The Government is paying no attention to the NDP and is writing budgets and updates that they know the LPC will support.

Other then it sounds good.... and their are political points to say, I will make my decision later, the fact is, there wasn't anything in those budgets and updates to change the position of the NDP.

Infact, it would be great if there was something in those budgets that surprised the NDP and made them say, lets support this budget, it really isn't a horses ass.

But these budgets are a disgrace, and while the government should support its initiatives, the role of the opposition is to either improve or oppose a budget or offer their full support.

The Liberals improved nothing, did not request anything short of a progress update. Big deal.

The Liberals could have said, the budget is fiscally incompetent. They could have said it was ok, but could use some tweaking.

However, they supported the budget in its entirety, and the NDP opposed it in its entirety.

Neither position fixes the budget or makes it better.

But one position helps push forward one of the worst budgets in many decades, and then hypocritically, wants to question the progress on how quickly the boat is moving down "**ITs creek, without the paddle"

That's what makes politics special. Its all talk, all posturing.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

BC is where the Liberals could actually gain a majority. Given the size of the nation and its multiple time zones and poll closures, for a change the west could be a very real deciding factor. The ground work in Atlantic Canada could be very key to how the rest of the nation votes. Of course it will be all over before any single group of numbers could have a potential impact but, if Atlantic Canada goes red, followed by the PC's losing what little they have in Quebec there is a distinct possibility for a Liberal majority. It will not be over till the polls close in BC, but those polls could very well be Harpers funeral song.

[madmax]

Actually holding a summer election would not hold things up in the least. After this week Parliament is on three month summer break anyway, so things were already slated to be held up. If the Grits form a minority, which seems likely at this point,

It does not look like the LPC can form a minority government by calling an election this summer. That is why there isn't going to be one. Calling an election and coming up short, will be the stupidest election called since Harper called one last September.

The LPC are going to campaign all summer. And they know that Harper will not go to the well again in September like he did last year. Therefore, the LPC will be the ones to pull the plug on the government, but it will not be for sometime to come.

[madmax]

Ontario, Quebec and BC are the real battle grounds, the rest of Canada need not vote. That's not arrogance talking; it's the reality of representation by population.

Yes, it is arrogance.

Alberta, Sask, Manitoba, PEI, NFLD, NS, NB, and the territories need not vote Liberal.

That is one hell of a campaign slogan.

[Dave_ON]

It does not look like the LPC can form a minority government by calling an election this summer. That is why there isn't going to be one. Calling an election and coming up short, will be the stupidest election called since Harper called one last September.

The LPC are going to campaign all summer. And they know that Harper will not go to the well again in September like he did last year. Therefore, the LPC will be the ones to pull the plug on the government, but it will not be for sometime to come.

The polls would indicate that the LPC would in fact form the government. The LPC is leading the CPC by an enormous margin in both PQ and ON. This is where most of their support stems from and conveniently enough 60 some odd percent of the seats are there too. Toss in the gains in BC and a few from the Atlantic region and you've got a LPC minority. Whether Ignatieff pulls the plug at this point remains to be seen. But there's so much talk and posturing about it, it's tough to say.

[capricorn]

Actually holding a summer election would not hold things up in the least. After this week Parliament is on three month summer break anyway, so things were already slated to be held up.

If I understand your comment correctly, if the Liberals topple the government, yes stimulus spending would be held up. And even without an election, if the House is not in session during the summer months, the Conservatives continue to govern, so new projects do get off the ground.

Stimulus spending is tied to the budget. There will be a vote on the government's estimates this Friday which is the vehicle that approves spending the money as earmarked in the budget. If a no confidence vote precipitates an election, the budget is down the toilet and so is stimulus spending (except the $3B already approved by Parliament, see below), until the Liberals present their own budget. That could take months.

I believe the money spent to date by the Conservatives is part of the $3B stimulus that has already been voted on in Parliament and would not be affected by this week's estimates vote or an election. In other words, those funds would not dry up if an election was held this summer.

[Dave_ON]

Yes, it is arrogance.

Alberta, Sask, Manitoba, PEI, NFLD, NS, NB, and the territories need not vote Liberal.

That is one hell of a campaign slogan.

It's not arrogance in the least, it is reality. There are enough seats in Ontario, Quebec and BC to rule the house. That is fact and simple mathematics. The seat count in Ontario 95, Quebec 75 BC 28 for a grand total of 198 seats. There are 305 in the house. The remaining 107 seats are split among the other provinces. Now tell me is it arrogant to say that if a party wins the majority of seats in ON, PQ and BC that they will win the election? No that's reality and all the parties know this, which is why these three provinces always get the most attention. It's also why AB is so very bitter about our current system of rep by population, they have a mere 21 seats and they're the 4th most populace province. The rest of the provinces have significantly fewer seats.

[Dave_ON]

Actually I was mistaken, those were the minimum seat counts I listed and there are 308 seats in the house not 305. The actual breakdown is 106 in Ontario, 75 in Quebec and 36 in BC for a total of 217 with the remaining 91 seats split between the rest of the provinces.

[jdobbin]

Stephen Harper sent Paul Martin and Stephane Dion into retirement. Ignatieff is starting to look even flakier than I thought he was.

Because he tossed it back into Harper's lap?

I know that some people just can't bear the thought of Stephen Harper being PM of Canada but you see, Harper doesn't need everyone's votes to win.

And that is why he has written off Quebec?

[madmax]

The polls would indicate that the LPC would in fact form the government.

No, and the reason is.... the public will not vote LPC for this reason .... if they call an election.

David Peterson Effect/b]

The LPC can read a poll, especially one that would associate blame with an unwanted election.

That poll is taken in the Heart of Liberal Toronto.

The LPC is leading the CPC by an enormous margin in both PQ and ON. This is where most of their support stems from and conveniently enough 60 some odd percent of the seats are there too. Toss in the gains in BC and a few from the Atlantic region and you've got a LPC minority. Whether Ignatieff pulls the plug at this point remains to be seen. But there's so much talk and posturing about it, it's tough to say.

Go ahead.... make my day.

I am so sick of elections, this could be the final bullet in the head aimed at stupid arrogant poll reading opportunists. I didn't like it when Harper called the September Election. Its absolutely the stupidest endeavour of a political party. Self absorbed parties that can only think of themselves and dream in the night with rose coloured glasses.

I know that the Liberals have been stared down again.

Expect the Liberal Puffery machine to be working all summer.

BOO!

Edited June 15, 2009 by madmax

[jdobbin]

The only people that I hear say the NDP are going to support the CPC is coming from LPC supporters. There is nothing buzzing in NDP circles that I am aware of that suggest there is some "Martin" deal in the works.

No one is backing down, I don't see the CPC moving any issue, including EI Reform.

If Harper is not going to respond, I expect we will be going to an election by Friday.

[jdobbin]

I know that the Liberals have been stared down again.

Expect the Liberal Puffery machine to be working all summer.

The NDP voting against the government in confidence 91 times since 2006 is a free ride. It isn't principled. It is done knowing they are not held accountable for it.

The strategy of the other parties is to blame the Liberals for any election while not changing their position and then shouting coward if the Liberals don't call an election.

This time it looks like Ignatieff has tossed it back in Harper's lap. No response by Friday and I think we have an election and the blame will be on Harper.

[Dave_ON]

No, and the reason is.... the public will not vote LPC for this reason .... if they call an election.

David Peterson Effect/b]

The LPC can read a poll, especially one that would associate blame with an unwanted election.

That poll is taken in the Heart of Liberal Toronto.

Go ahead.... make my day.

I am so sick of elections, this could be the final bullet in the head aimed at stupid arrogant poll reading opportunists. I didn't like it when Harper called the September Election. Its absolutely the stupidest endeavour of a political party. Self absorbed parties that can only think of themselves and dream in the night with rose coloured glasses.

I know that the Liberals have been stared down again.

Expect the Liberal Puffery machine to be working all summer.

BOO!

The main issue with the "poll" you cited is this line which is directly under it.

Disclaimer: This is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate

All legitimate polls indicate the Grits are ahead at present. Factor in that they are leading in the two most populace provinces and holding their own elsewhere and it's a pretty sure bet.

For a complete listing of poll results check out the Canadian political polls forum. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....0&start=360

You'll find lots of legitimate scientific polls that indicate at this time the Grits would win a minority. Anything can happen and who knows what the next few months will bring. Canadians may not want another election but that's the reality of minority governments, they're extremely unstable. Unfortunately with the current state of affairs in Canada and the increasing regionalism and the polarization of the electorate; we're in for a few more minorities yet which means more frequent elections.

[August1991]

Because he tossed it back into Harper's lap?

Hein?

Here are the four issues:

EI reform.

How much infrastructure funding is being spent, not just announced.

What is the plan to dig us out of the deficit?

What is the plan to deal with the isotope crisis?

G&M

Plans, plans and more plans. If you want to call that "tossing it back into Harper's lap", go ahead. Ignatieff is a flake. He crumbles under pressure.

[punked]

The NDP voting against the government in confidence 91 times since 2006 is a free ride. It isn't principled. It is done knowing they are not held accountable for it.

The strategy of the other parties is to blame the Liberals for any election while not changing their position and then shouting coward if the Liberals don't call an election.

This time it looks like Ignatieff has tossed it back in Harper's lap. No response by Friday and I think we have an election and the blame will be on Harper.

Yah can you believe the NDP voting against something they don't stand for instead of watching polls and campaigning from the time they get in until the next election? Not like that upstanding Liberal leader saying one thing one day and something else the next. How dare they!

[jdobbin]

Plans, plans and more plans. If you want to call that "tossing it back into Harper's lap", go ahead. Ignatieff is a flake. He crumbles under pressure.

If Harper doesn't respond then we have an election starting Friday. Harper is a sociopath so it is quite possible that he will call the election himself.