Election 2009

[capricorn]

Funny thing the NDP has been raising the issue of EI reform from the time the LIBERALS changed the rules under Chretien. I think if all these Liberal band wagon jumpers truly want EI reform they would get behind the NDP and Yvon Godin the only person who actually fought for it. Iggy voted against EI reform for the last three years as Godin introduced countless bills in favour of it.

As much as I don't subscribe to the NDP's policies, I give them credit for standing by their principles. They are steady in opposition and you always know where they're coming from.

Why has he changed his mind?

Iggy thought he had a good thing. The Liberals pegged EI as a vulnerability of the Conservatives. Iggy must have been taken aback when Canadians overwhelmingly opposed holding an election over EI. To top it off, the Conservatives said they will be studying other changes to EI. Recent improvements to EI, another review of EI and a rebounding economy combine to deflate concerns over EI. That's why EI is fading off Ignatieff's radar.

[August1991]

I think we should hold an election and call the money spent part of the "fiscal stimulus" package. Elections create all kinds of jobs for people. Heck, if the recession continues in 2010 we could hold another election then too.

[jdobbin]

Iggy hates the NDP, he came to NS to try to reverse the momentum of the provincial party but it didn't work.

It didn't? Aren't the Liberals the Official Oppostion now? A darn sight better than they were before the election.

As for what Ignatieff thinks about the NDP: I don't think he hates them. Her certainly disagrees with a lot of the federal NDP policies such an immediate pull out of Afghanistan before the end of our mandate.

[jdobbin]

They are a party that if it means being wiped out, then so be it.

And have done so many times.

It is for this reason that the Liberals will back away from an election. The NDP will stare them down, knowing that the Liberals are not ready. The Liberals will use the Summer to huff and puff, but their first order of operations is to go after the NDP.

And if the Liberals do vote no, will you be saying that it is not the right time to have an election?

[punked]

It didn't? Aren't the Liberals the Official Oppostion now? A darn sight better than they were before the election.

As for what Ignatieff thinks about the NDP: I don't think he hates them. Her certainly disagrees with a lot of the federal NDP policies such an immediate pull out of Afghanistan before the end of our mandate.

No it didn't work, they won two extra seats as the Cons support fell out of the basket. It takes the whole Federal Liberal party to come to NS and increase their seat total by 10% and have them dip from 32% in the polls when Iggy came to 27% on election day? That is a victory for Iggy and the Federal party who weren't shy about sticking their noise in a provincial campaign? Scott Brison, Ken Dryden, Bob Rea, Iggy, Mike Savage, Geoff Reagan, and all their political organizer came and they lost votes from the time the election was called too election day. Spin it all you want it was a loss for the federal party, maybe a win for the terrible provincial party but a loss for a Federal one. Harper didn't come, Layton didn't come only Iggy and he lost votes.

Ignatieff wouldn't have came to NS if he didn't have a blind hate for the NDP. He cost himself some political capital pouring federal resources in NS only to lose big. NDP majority government on the East coast no less, is no win for the Liberals.

[jdobbin]

No it didn't work, they won two extra seats as the Cons support fell out of the basket. It takes the whole Federal Liberal party to come to NS and increase their seat total by 10% and have them dip from 32% in the polls when Iggy came to 27% on election day? That is a victory for Iggy and the Federal party who weren't shy about sticking their noise in a provincial campaign? Scott Brison, Ken Dryden, Bob Rea, Iggy, Mike Savage, Geoff Reagan, and all their political organizer came and they lost votes from the time the election was called too election day. Spin it all you want it was a loss for the federal party, maybe a win for the terrible provincial party but a loss for a Federal one. Harper didn't come, Layton didn't come only Iggy and he lost votes.

Don't know if you can blame the drop in the polls to the Liberals coming. The provincial Libeals increased their seat count and their vote tally from the last election and are now Official Opposition. Those are all better results than the last election and came even with a massive turn to the NDP.

Ignatieff wouldn't have came to NS if he didn't have a blind hate for the NDP. He cost himself some political capital pouring federal resources in NS only to lose big. NDP majority government on the East coast no less, is no win for the Liberals.

I think you are imagining how he feels. The real negative campaigning came from provincial Tories, no?

The blind hate does not seem to be coming from Ignatieff but from NDP supporters.

Ignatieff came to support a shattered Liberal party in the province of Nova Scotia. He didn't come because he hates the NDP.

[punked]

Don't know if you can blame the drop in the polls to the Liberals coming. The provincial Libeals increased their seat count and their vote tally from the last election and are now Official Opposition. Those are all better results than the last election and came even with a massive turn to the NDP.

That is spin. They went from 32% in the polls at the start of the election to 27% on election day. They lost as much from the start of the election to the finish as gained in the last two years. That isn't a win, winning seats which are traditionally Liberal, and where they could run a child molester and Win, is not a win. Back room deals with the liberals where PC's campaign for Liberals, and visa versa in certain areas of the province, and still not holding the NDP to a minority is not a win.

I think you are imagining how he feels. The real negative campaigning came from provincial Tories, no?

The blind hate does not seem to be coming from Ignatieff but from NDP supporters.

Ignatieff came to support a shattered Liberal party in the province of Nova Scotia. He didn't come because he hates the NDP.

Depends on if you feel the Liberal Leader releasing topless photo's of an actress running for the NDP to the media as attacking someone. I would say that is attacking. Iggy came to try and stop the NDP momentum and he didn't. It is a personal loss for him.

[jdobbin]

That is spin. They went from 32% in the polls at the start of the election to 27% on election day. They lost as much from the start of the election to the finish as gained in the last two years. That isn't a win, winning seats which are traditionally Liberal, and where they could run a child molester and Win, is not a win. Back room deals with the liberals where PC's campaign for Liberals, and visa versa in certain areas of the province, and still not holding the NDP to a minority is not a win.

Given that the NDP was building momentum, the Liberals seem to have done well. They were at 23% in the polls in 2006 and finished at 27% this election.

I can't recall the Liberals ever having 32%. They had 31% twice back in May but were more consistently in the 27% most of the last two years on average and that is what the news mentioned whenever they talked about the Corporate Research polls.

Depends on if you feel the Liberal Leader releasing topless photo's of an actress running for the NDP to the media as attacking someone. I would say that is attacking. Iggy came to try and stop the NDP momentum and he didn't. It is a personal loss for him.

The Liberal leader released the picture? I don't think so. At least none of the stories the newspapers printed indicated he did it.

As for a personal loss, I don't think Ignatieff was getting involved thinking the Liberals would win. My thinking is he got involved to make sure the Liberals were stronger than they were in 2006. A 4% gain from the last election is not bad. Afterall, isn't that about the same that the NDP gained in their 2006 election?

Quite honestly, I have not heard the analysis and conclusion that you've made that Ignatieff led the Liberals to defeat.

Edited June 14, 2009 by jdobbin

[punked]

Given that the NDP was building momentum, the Liberals seem to have done well. They were at 23% in the polls in 2006 and finished at 27% this election.

I can't recall the Liberals ever having 32%. They had 31% twice back in May but were more consistently in the 27% most of the last two years on average and that is what the news mentioned whenever they talked about the Corporate Research polls.

It took them two years to get to 31% and they lost that all in 2 months. I don't think it was the federal Liberals fault I think the Feds had no effect and poured resources into NS. Seriously Inside NS their was only NS MPs for the PC's and the NDP but the Liberals brought out their big guns to lose momentum. McNeil was saying 2 weeks before the election his internal polls suggested he could form government. Either that was another Liberal lie or I must believe the Liberal despite Iggy coming and all the other Feds lost quite a bit of ground.

The Liberal leader released the picture? I don't think so. At least none of the stories the newspapers printed indicated he did it.

As for a personal loss, I don't think Ignatieff was getting involved thinking the Liberals would win. My thinking is he got involved to make sure the Liberals were stronger than they were in 2006. A 4% gain from the last election is not bad. Afterall, isn't that about the same that the NDP gained in their 2006 election?

Quite honestly, I have not heard the analysis and conclusion that you've made that Ignatieff led the Liberals to defeat.

I never said he led to the Liberals defeat I said he had no effect which is a loss anyway you spin it for him, he came here to stop the NDP and had no effect. As for the Leader releasing the picture, unless he has no control over his people he gave it the go ahead. That might be why he called both the candidate and NDP leader to say he was sorry. A 4% is bad when you are in a province where only once the Liberals have dipped below 30% and they still can't make it back to that 30%. They lost in 2 months what it took them two years to gain.

[jdobbin]

It took them two years to get to 31% and they lost that all in 2 months. I don't think it was the federal Liberals fault I think the Feds had no effect and poured resources into NS. Seriously Inside NS their was only NS MPs for the PC's and the NDP but the Liberals brought out their big guns to lose momentum. McNeil was saying 2 weeks before the election his internal polls suggested he could form government. Either that was another Liberal lie or I must believe the Liberal despite Iggy coming and all the other Feds lost quite a bit of ground.

I have no idea what sort of polling that he was talking about.

I certainly didn't think they would form the government. My guess from the beginning was an NDP government. I think even the boldest NDPer would not have said that the party would score 45% given what they were sitting at in popularity in all the months and years before that.

Quite simply, the NDP rode an expectation of victory to a massive victory.

We saw that when the Liberals drove the PCs to two seats. Few people would have predicted that in a federal election. That is what momentum can do.

Two polls within days of one another really didn't show the incremental increases the Liberals had been making since 2006. I was quite skeptical of the two poll numbers within days of each other. It seemed like outliers to me.

I never said he led to the Liberals defeat I said he had no effect which is a loss anyway you spin it for him, he came here to stop the NDP and had no effect. As for the Leader releasing the picture, unless he has no control over his people he gave it the go ahead.

You said the Liberal leader released the picture. Clearly he didn't and clearly he apologized for the person who did release the picture.

I guess you are welcome to think he ordered it. There isn't any evidence he did.

That might be why he called both the candidate and NDP leader to say he was sorry.

And that makes him guilty of personally doing it?

A 4% is bad when you are in a province where only once the Liberals have dipped below 30% and they still can't make it back to that 30%. They lost in 2 months what it took them two years to gain.

Well, perhaps you will get your goal of the Liberals ceasing as a party by the next election. Maybe the Tories too if they collapse even further.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

No matter which way you slice it, partisans defend their parties. Right or wrong they still carry the party line.

[capricorn]

Mr. Coderre has confirmed that all nominating meetings will be held

throughout Quebec over the next few months, through the tireless efforts of

hundreds of supporters, who are more motivated than never.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...9/05/c3760.html

I guess "election ready" doesn't include a full set of candidates.

[Smallc]

There's not going to be an election because the NDP is going to fold....and if there is an election call, they'll figure it out.

[capricorn]

So tomorrow at his press conference, I think Ignatieff will chastise the government, then announce that he will extend Harper's probation. He can make himself look good by saying that a summer election would slow the flow of stimulus funds.

[Smallc]

Ignatieff may allow Harper a pass....or he may not...and if he doesn't...Jack Layton will.

[jdobbin]

So tomorrow at his press conference, I think Ignatieff will chastise the government, then announce that he will extend Harper's probation. He can make himself look good by saying that a summer election would slow the flow of stimulus funds.

He can't win any way he votes. Tories will scream coward across the floor as they usually do and say that the Liberals should not critique one item of their agenda since they believe they have carte blance to act. And if he does say no confidence, all the others say they are the cause of an election they don't want despite the fact that it takes three parties to bring the government down.

Edited June 14, 2009 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

I guess "election ready" doesn't include a full set of candidates.

Many won't announce until the writ is dropped. I doubt many Liberal candidates want to wait another year and a half. I know my local candidate couldn't wait the lengthy time and dropped out.

[punked]

Ignatieff may allow Harper a pass....or he may not...and if he doesn't...Jack Layton will.

I don't think Jack Layton will. The NDP has told us to be election ready. The NDP don't back down too often, it is one of our faults we don't really look to poll numbers to decide what to do. Although if Jack does it is a smart play by him. I think the Liberals will back away on this one.

[Smallc]

Rob Russo said that Jack Layton told him that he wants to make a deal and the Prime Minister knows that. The ball is in Stephen Harper's court...and if he passes it to Layton, it will be up to him. He'll fold....provided that Ignatieff doesn't just let the government survive.

[punked]

Rob Russo said that Jack Layton told him that he wants to make a deal and the Prime Minister knows that. The ball is in Stephen Harper's court...and if he passes it to Layton, it will be up to him. He'll fold....provided that Ignatieff doesn't just let the government survive.

Hopefully we get another NDP budget like we did when Martin made a deal with him. I love it when the NDP has actual power although I don't think Iggy will let us see a NDP budget.

[August1991]

Rob Russo said that Jack Layton told him that he wants to make a deal and the Prime Minister knows that. The ball is in Stephen Harper's court...and if he passes it to Layton, it will be up to him. He'll fold....provided that Ignatieff doesn't just let the government survive.

According to Le Devoir, that's exactly what Ignatieff is going to do:

Après trois jours de réflexion, le chef libéral, Michael Ignatieff, a décidé de ne pas déclencher d'élections cet été. Il annoncera aujourd'hui que son parti appuiera, à contrecoeur, le gouvernement Harper lors du vote de confiance sur les crédits budgétaires cette semaine, a appris Le Devoir de sources sûres.

Le Devoir

[normanchateau]

According to Le Devoir, that's exactly what Ignatieff is going to do:Le Devoir

Ignatieff is right not to press for an election right now. Sure, an election will finally and decisively rid Canada of the incompetent and vile Stephen Harper but a Liberal majority is not yet within grasp. A summer election will most likely produce a Liberal minority government and will give the Conservatives a chance to replace Harper with a Conservative leader who actually stands a chance of defeating Ignatieff.

[August1991]

Ignatieff is right not to press for an election right now. Sure, an election will finally and decisively rid Canada of the incompetent and vile Stephen Harper but a Liberal majority is not yet within grasp. A summer election will most likely produce a Liberal minority government and will give the Conservatives a chance to replace Harper with a Conservative leader who actually stands a chance of defeating Ignatieff.

Stephen Harper sent Paul Martin and Stephane Dion into retirement. Ignatieff is starting to look even flakier than I thought he was.

Norm, I know that some people just can't bear the thought of Stephen Harper being PM of Canada but you see, Harper doesn't need everyone's votes to win.

[normanchateau]

Norm, I know that some people just can't bear the thought of Stephen Harper being PM of Canada but you see, Harper doesn't need everyone's votes to win.

No, he doesn't need everyone's votes but he does need more votes than the Leader of the Opposition.

With the right leader, the Conservatives can defeat Ignatieff. Fortunately, they're saddled with Harper.

[Argus]

Because no other party would ever do that...right?

I bet if I look back to the last time I'll find you complaining about the tories holding an unnecessary election.