No Wonder the Israeli's attack the Palestinians!

[Bonam]

'law of return' is a racist immigration policy.

I disagree. It's a sane immigration policy, that is an integral component of Israel's goal, which is to be a state where people of Jewish descent can live without being a minority group. Furthermore, there are several Western nations that have analogous "laws of return". Do you consider Britain, France, and Germany racist states as well? See here for a list of countries that have some form of a right of return law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

Edited June 22, 2009 by Bonam

[DogOnPorch]

I disagree. It's a sane immigration policy, that is an integral component of Israel's goal, which is to be a state where people of Jewish descent can live without being a minority group. Furthermore, there are several Western nations that have analogous "laws of return". Do you consider Britain, France, and Germany racist states as well? See here for a list of countries that have some form of a right of return law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return#Germany

We've, literally, been here before.

[dub]

Yasser Arafat was born in Cairo.

to palestinian parents.

the russian jews and many of the european jews have no connection to israel.

before the mass zionist immigration, less than 10% of palestine was jewish. those jews lived peacefully with the muslim and christians. but i guess that's something you rather not talk about.

[DogOnPorch]

to palestinian parents.

the russian jews and many of the european jews have no connection to israel.

before the mass zionist immigration, less than 10% of palestine was jewish. those jews lived peacefully with the muslim and christians. but i guess that's something you rather not talk about.

There was no Palestine when Yasser was born...so how is that possible?

Read it on Wikipedia?

[dub]

I disagree. It's a sane immigration policy, that is an integral component of Israel's goal, which is to be a state where people of Jewish descent can live without being a minority group. Furthermore, there are several Western nations that have analogous "laws of return". Do you consider Britain, France, and Germany racist states as well? See here for a list of countries that have some form of a right of return law:

for all of those, you must have a parent or at least a grandparent who was born in the country.

law of return says if you're jewish, as in the religion of judaism, then you can come to israel. you don't need to have any family ties to the region. majority of the jews who immigrated to palestine had/have no family ties to the region.

[Bonam]

before the mass zionist immigration, less than 10% of palestine was jewish. those jews lived peacefully with the muslim and christians. but i guess that's something you rather not talk about.

Peacefully? You've never heard of the pogroms against the Jewish population of the region, such as in 1834, 1920, and 1929? There was nothing peaceful about it. Arabs have been slaughtering Jews in the Ottoman Empire / Mandate of Transjordan for hundreds of years, well before the formation of the State of Israel.

[benny]

We've, literally, been here before.

Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity so all Christians can consider it to be their group's homeland.

[DogOnPorch]

for all of those, you must have a parent or at least a grandparent who was born in the country.

law of return says if you're jewish, as in the religion of judaism, then you can come to israel. you don't need to have any family ties to the region. majority of the jews who immigrated to palestine had/have no family ties to the region.

That's incorrect re: Germany's law of return. As you might say: Stop your lies!!!

[dub]

There was no Palestine when Yasser was born...so how is that possible?

Read it on Wikipedia?

wtf are you talking about?

everyone called the region palestine. there was a palestine mandate drafted after the first world war. ben gurion referred to the area as such and to the people who lived there as palestinian.

can you surprise me for once and share something truthful?

[Bonam]

for all of those, you must have a parent or at least a grandparent who was born in the country.

law of return says if you're jewish, as in the religion of judaism, then you can come to israel. you don't need to have any family ties to the region. majority of the jews who immigrated to palestine had/have no family ties to the region.

False. Many American converts to Judaism have had their applications to immigrate to Israel under the law of return denied. Proof of ethnic Jewish descent is usually required. Prior to the late 20th century, there were almost no practitioners of Judaism besides ethnic Jews, so proof of descent from a practitioner of Judaism in the earlier half of the 20th century or earlier is sufficient.

Perhaps you should research the subject more thoroughly before commenting?

[DogOnPorch]

wtf are you talking about?

everyone called the region palestine. there was a palestine mandate drafted after the first world war. ben gurion referred to the area as such and to the people who lived there as palestinian.

can you surprise me for once and share something truthful?

The was no Palestine when Arafat was born. They could call the region France and it still wouldn't be so.

[benny]

The was no Palestine when Arafat was born. They could call the region France and it still wouldn't be so.

There was a Palestine when Jesus was born.

[dub]

That's incorrect re: Germany's law of return. As you might say: Stop your lies!!!

eh?

how is ""who has been admitted to the territory of the German Reich within the boundaries of December 31, 1937 as a refugee or expellee of German ethnic origin or as the spouse or descendant of such person" similar to the "law of return" in israel?

you don't need to show any evidence or document that you have jewish parents or grandparents who have lived in the region. you just show that you follow judaism and bam, citizenship! meanwhile, palestinians living in israel are unable to bring their spouses into israel.

you're digging your own hole.

[jbg]

until a group of foreign people started immigrating in mass numbers and claimed ontario for themselves. right?

United Empire Loyalists vs. the "indigenous British settlers"?

[jbg]

False. Many American converts to Judaism have had their applications to immigrate to Israel under the law of return denied. Proof of ethnic Jewish descent is usually required. Prior to the late 20th century, there were almost no practitioners of Judaism besides ethnic Jews, so proof of descent from a practitioner of Judaism in the earlier half of the 20th century or earlier is sufficient.

Israel's policy on this issue, called "who is a Jew" is galling.

[benny]

United Empire Loyalists vs. the "indigenous British settlers"?

If extraterrestrial aliens would invade Ontario, you have to try to negotiate something with them before bowing to their demands.

[DogOnPorch]

eh?

how is ""who has been admitted to the territory of the German Reich within the boundaries of December 31, 1937 as a refugee or expellee of German ethnic origin or as the spouse or descendant of such person" similar to the "law of return" in israel?

you don't need to show any evidence or document that you have jewish parents or grandparents who have lived in the region. you just show that you follow judaism and bam, citizenship! meanwhile, palestinians living in israel are unable to bring their spouses into israel.

you're digging your own hole.

From Wikipedia...

Some persons who lost German citizenship under the Nazi regime (mainly German Jews) may be eligible for naturalisation without requiring residence in Germany or renunciation of their existing citizenship. Children and grandchildren of such persons may also be eligible for German citizenship.

The law is codified in Article 116 of the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany, which provides access to German citizenship for anyone "who has been admitted to the territory of the German Reich within the boundaries of December 31, 1937 as a refugee or expellee of German ethnic origin or as the spouse or descendant of such person".

My family qualifies and I've never set foot in Germany.

Edited June 22, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

There was a Palestine when Jesus was born.

Nope. Not until after 70AD. Then the Romans named the area after the folks Alexander hauled away into slavery 400 years previous as they knew it would piss off the Jews naming the area after their ancient biblical enemies. Ah, those Romans.

[dub]

The was no Palestine when Arafat was born. They could call the region France and it still wouldn't be so.

sure there was. unless the british were making the word up when referring to the region as palestine.

or maybe talk it over with ben gurion who referred to it as palestine:

"...Therefore if a war is extended to cover the whole of Palestine, our greatest gain will be the Galilee."

"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants." Ben-Gurion often returned to this point, emphasizing that Palestinian Arabs had "the full right" to an independent economic, cultural, and communal life, but not political. (Shabtai Teveth, p. 37-38)

ben gurion just kicked your ass.

[DogOnPorch]

Like it or not, there was no nation known as Palestine. There was a Roman territory (renamed) and a British mandate...but no nation/country/state.

[benny]

Nope. Not until after 70AD. Then the Romans named the area after the folks Alexander hauled away into slavery 400 years previous as they knew it would piss off the Jews naming the area after their ancient biblical enemies. Ah, those Romans.

The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_pal...name_origin.php

[Bonam]

"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants." Ben-Gurion often returned to this point, emphasizing that Palestinian Arabs had "the full right" to an independent economic, cultural, and communal life, but not political. (Shabtai Teveth, p. 37-38)

ben gurion just kicked your ass.

Someone referring to a certain region by a given name does not mean that a state by that name with a distinct nationality exists at that time.

A quote like that could equally well mention regions that include multiple states (such as continent names) as well as regions that are parts of states (i.e. names of provinces) as well as geographic names. Ben Gurion's usage of the word "Palestine" was in the geographic sense, as there was no state by that name at the time.

If you mean the British Mandate of Palestine, that included Jordan as well, and that kind of shoots your argument in the foot, as Jordan is the Arab state that was supposed to be made out of the Mandate of Palestine, and it's many times larger than Israel, and has no Israeli settlements within it.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Bonam

[DogOnPorch]

The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_pal...name_origin.php

Yes...the Phoenicians and Philistines were Big Al's target. Something to do with a Siege at Tyre pissing him off royally.

Edited June 22, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[benny]

Yes...the Phoenicians and Philistines were Big Al's target. Something to do with a Siege at Tyre pissing him off royally.

Even India should have a say in Israel's status since Alexander the Great was defeated there.

[dub]

so yeah, lets get this straight: we have over 90% palestinian arabs living in the palestine "region" and then a mass immigration by the jews happens from russia and europe and a country named israel is born on the land that these palestinian arabs have been living on for centuries. there is a promise of a palestinian state but the arabs are like, "wtf? you can't just come in here and call this land your land! who do you think you are" and so they fight a few wars and lose the wars. then, one country after another accepts the state of israel and even arafat accept the creation of israel and the 1967 borders. yet, israel continues to stall and continues to annex more of the land.

Edited June 22, 2009 by dub