No Wonder the Israeli's attack the Palestinians!

[jbg]

In the case of Yasser Arafat, your view can be summarized by simply saying: you harass this man all his adult life and when he becomes old (in 2000, Arafat was 71) then you blame him for not having conserve his mental capacity to negotiate a peace deal calmly, responsibly and reasonably!!!

Arafat became the way he was because he was hounded by the Jerusalem Post. It had nothing to do with his being a nephew of the Mufti of Jerusalem.

[benny]

Arafat became the way he was because he was hounded by the Jerusalem Post.

Arafat is not a Hollywood starlet; paparazzi are not to blame for his decrepitude.

[Oleg Bach]

Arafat is not a Hollywood starlet; paparazzi are not to blame for his decrepitude.

He had big blue wet lips and liked blonde German boys...I don't know how anyone could have taken this freak seriously - what were the Palistinians thinking.. Arafat was the most unlikely and unpresentable leader of all time.

[benny]

He had big blue wet lips and liked blonde German boys...I don't know how anyone could have taken this freak seriously - what were the Palistinians thinking.. Arafat was the most unlikely and unpresentable leader of all time.

Mohamed Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini is now a resistance symbol.

[KrustyKidd]

Mohamed Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini is now a resistance symbol.

And rightfully so. As flawed as some may feel he is as a person, myself included, he was a fighter and, as a leader, he was respected by Israel.

His preconditions for negotiations being return of land however, puts him in the realm of all those who fail to understand the fundamental and prime demand of Israel, be she right or wrong, that nothing happens unless their security is assured before any other consideration. A fact that few on this board understand.

[benny]

And rightfully so. As flawed as some may feel he is as a person, myself included, he was a fighter and, as a leader, he was respected by Israel.

His preconditions for negotiations being return of land however, puts him in the realm of all those who fail to understand the fundamental and prime demand of Israel, be she right or wrong, that nothing happens unless their security is assured before any other consideration. A fact that few on this board understand.

Asking security from an insecure old man is stupid.

[Oleg Bach]

Maybe put a gold plated statue of the hero in front of his house so the dithering old fool can keep up his self esteem - something to counter the ill effects on the ego of pooping your pants.

[benny]

Maybe put a gold plated statue of the hero in front of his house so the dithering old fool can keep up his self esteem - something to counter the ill effects on the ego of pooping your pants.

All to the contrary, Jews and Muslims should build on their shared iconoclasm.

http://books.google.com/books?id=oj21JMjnK...lt&resnum=1

[Oleg Bach]

All to the contrary, Jews and Muslims should build on their shared iconoclasm.

http://books.google.com/books?id=oj21JMjnK...lt&resnum=1

True - after all they are decended from the same father....you would think that they would worship the same god and create the same idol..but you use the word iconoclasm ----or iconoclast - which means idol smasher...My earliest memory was watching my father secretly weep in a the loft at my childhood home on the lake...He had suffered the horrors of revolution and war...He was an old orthodox Christian - with a mixture of other underlying beleifs ---anyway..He had an old icon of Christ -- it had to be at least 400 years old.

- I belief he took it from a bombed out church - or perhaps it was the only thing he carried from his familiar home....He was a damaged man ---suddenly like bolt of lighting - my fathers tears turned to rage - and he smashed the icon...He never knew that I saw this...This was a statement - I believed in you - I waited for salvation - you allowed my family to be murdered by the communists - He was right - Christ never came to this earth to create a religion - or to be an icon or idol - He brought a state of mind...logic..and truth - and hope..not religion!

[KrustyKidd]

Asking security from an insecure old man is stupid.

That is correct if you intended to mean the old man was Palestinians so, one must look to their own abilities to defend their children against attacks from the insecure old man until a pattern of normal behavior indicates he is trustworthy. Once that is accomplished then, negotiations and return of land can begin.

[benny]

True - after all they are decended from the same father....you would think that they would worship the same god and create the same idol..but you use the word iconoclasm ----or iconoclast - which means idol smasher...My earliest memory was watching my father secretly weep in a the loft at my childhood home on the lake...He had suffered the horrors of revolution and war...He was an old orthodox Christian - with a mixture of other underlying beleifs ---anyway..He had an old icon of Christ -- it had to be at least 400 years old.

- I belief he took it from a bombed out church - or perhaps it was the only thing he carried from his familiar home....He was a damaged man ---suddenly like bolt of lighting - my fathers tears turned to rage - and he smashed the icon...He never knew that I saw this...This was a statement - I believed in you - I waited for salvation - you allowed my family to be murdered by the communists - He was right - Christ never came to this earth to create a religion - or to be an icon or idol - He brought a state of mind...logic..and truth - and hope..not religion!

What Christians can bring to the table in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the conviction that to be able to recognize God in your neighbor, all his monstrosities must be treated as signs.

[dub]

I make no excuses for Israel or acknowledgment. I only wish to correct a statement you made when you said "i'm sure in saudi there is nothing in their law saying "no jews""

i still haven't seen this on any of their web sites. believe me, i searched. but, for the sake of moving along and not getting held up on a moot point, okay, i underestimated their racism and they discriminate out in the open and they have at some point written "no jews".

if we can move along now and get back to the point that i was trying to make: israeli immigration and citizenship laws are closer to that of saudi's than they are to the western country. their immigration and citizenship laws discriminate based on religion and nationality.

[KrustyKidd]

i still haven't seen this on any of their web sites. believe me, i searched. but, for the sake of moving along and not getting held up on a moot point, okay, i underestimated their racism and they discriminate out in the open and they have at some point written "no jews".

if we can move along now and get back to the point that i was trying to make: israeli immigration and citizenship laws are closer to that of saudi's than they are to the western country. their immigration and citizenship laws discriminate based on religion and nationality.

I showed a BBC article that states the contrary. There was in fact an official site that stated just that however, it is no more as the offensive policy has now been put out of sight while still remaining in effect. There are hundreds of agencies reporting on this and even the Saudi Arabia Accountability Act which demands action based on their official policy, which I imagine is law given the derogatory terms used in their government handbook (AKA the Koran) which states that Jews are subhuman beings in any nuber of passages. Rep Anthony Weiner brought the Accountability Act forth to President Bush and immediately, the offending web site took down the 'No Jews' portion of the official statement. As for there being any recanting of the policy itself, I have seen no proof have you?

So, you can go on with Israel not allowing Muslims to become citizens however, at least they are allowed in the country.

So yes, there is something in Saudi Official policy or law that says 'no Jews.' Unless of course you wish to call CNN, BBC, Weiner and a host of other witnesses wrong.

[dub]

I showed a BBC article that states the contrary. There was in fact an official site that stated just that however, it is no more as the offensive policy has now been put out of sight while still remaining in effect. There are hundreds of agencies reporting on this and even the Saudi Arabia Accountability Act which demands action based on their official policy, which I imagine is law given the derogatory terms used in their government handbook (AKA the Koran) which states that Jews are subhuman beings in any nuber of passages. Rep Anthony Weiner brought the Accountability Act forth to President Bush and immediately, the offending web site took down the 'No Jews' portion of the official statement. As for there being any recanting of the policy itself, I have seen no proof have you?

So, you can go on with Israel not allowing Muslims to become citizens however, at least they are allowed in the country.

So yes, there is something in Saudi Official policy or law that says 'no Jews.' Unless of course you wish to call CNN, BBC, Weiner and a host of other witnesses wrong.

hey krusty.

i already said "okay. they have said 'no jews'". not sure what else you're looking for here.

i haven't seen anyone here defending saudi's racist behaviour, especially not me. all i did was make a passing remark about how they haven't openly come out and said 'no jews', which i've already agreed was wrong. the only thing that i've done is compare saudi arabia to israel. whether they've put 'no jews' or not on their site doesn't change the fact that both countries discriminate based on religion and nationality.

so based on israel's discrimination towards particular religious groups and nationalities, their policies are closer to saudi arabia's than to U.S. and canada.

[Bonam]

I reject the notion that immigration policies can be racist to begin with. It is not a "human right" of a given individual to immigrate to any particular country, thus there is nothing wrong with denying someone the chance to immigrate to a country. A nation is free to choose who it wants to immigrate into it for whatever reason it wants. Like I said, the current policy of most Western countries is closer to deliberate demographic suicide than it is to sensible immigration policy.

[KrustyKidd]

tell that to the hundreds of muslims who cannot bring their spouses or family members to israel.

How about the hundreds of Jews who cannot bring their spouses or family members to Israel under the same law?

look up the 'Law of Return' which is set up for the jews and no one else.

and;

so based on israel's discrimination towards particular religious groups and nationalities, their policies are closer to saudi arabia's than to U.S. and canada.

From your link;

In addition to Israel, several other countries provide immigration privileges to individuals with ethnic ties to these countries. Examples include Germany[19], Ireland, Serbia, Greece, Japan, Turkey, Spain, Chile, Finland and the United Kingdom, where those with an ancestor who was a citizen (typically a grandparent or closer) can immigrate more easily than others.

Seems closer to the US and Canada than SA after all.

[benny]

"Blood and soil" (Blut ohne Boden) is very significant for Jews:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8fn8n4RLg...lt&resnum=2

Edited June 24, 2009 by benny

[KrustyKidd]

"Blood and soil" (Blut ohne Boden) is very significant for Jews:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8fn8n4RLg...lt&resnum=2

So is being open minded and tolerent of others.

"The Jewish faith involves tolerance because, from the beginning it bears the entire weight of all other men."

"The true universalism is thus, paradoxically, this very refusal to bear one's message on others....."

[benny]

So is being open minded and tolerent of others.

You sure have proven that you are tolerant since you (and only you up until now) have taken the time to read my link. Emmanuel Levinas, the author of your quote, has also written the following:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8fn8n4RLg...lt&resnum=1

Edited June 24, 2009 by benny

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The only solution to middle east peace is an end to nationalism. Until that happens there is simply no realistic hope.

[benny]

The only solution to middle east peace is an end to nationalism. Until that happens there is simply no realistic hope.

Nationalism has nothing to do in this conflict.

[dub]

How about the hundreds of Jews who cannot bring their spouses or family members to Israel under the same law?

and;

From your link;

Seems closer to the US and Canada than SA after all.

not really.

you can be a russian jew with no ties to israel and still get the special privilege. if you're a russian christian, you won't get the same privilege. stop trying to side-step the obvious. most of the other countries do not give special privilege to those with a particular religion.

israel's immigration and citizenship policies are racist.

[Bonam]

israel's immigration and citizenship policies are racist.

Repeating the same false statement multiple times doesn't make it magically become true.

[benny]

A high profile Jew argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was the only solution:

http://www.newleftreview.org/?view=2497

[dub]

Repeating the same false statement multiple times doesn't make it magically become true.

i'm repeating what israel's policies are.

the policies are racist because they give special treatments to a group with a specific religious background.

if their policies do not give special treatment to jews, then i would be wrong.