Gay is not norrmal

[Oleg Bach]

Let's recap your points so far. You think being gay isn't normal. You think that people should have the right to say something isn't normal. You think that the "left" is saying your opinions aren't normal. You are now offended at being accused of abnormal discourse. Congratulations on successfully arguing against yourself. If tolerance means tolerating opinions you don't like then why did you even start this thread with a post that essentially says you're tired of tolerating the gay lifestyle?

"lifestyle" - jerry?

[BubberMiley]

I know about gays' public washroom habits

Most gays have perfectly "normal" public washroom habits. Strangely, it seems, the ones who have the widest stances are the same people who spend a lot of time decrying the abnormality of homosexuality. It comes from sexual repression and self-hatred.

[Oleg Bach]

Most gays have perfectly "normal" public washroom habits. Strangely, it seems, the ones who have the widest stances are the same people who spend a lot of time decrying the abnormality of homosexuality. It comes from sexual repression and self-hatred.

Jerry does not seem to understand the complexity of the dynamics of human beings - they come in all shapes and sizes...frankly I don't believe in "gay" Jerry does..why is that Jerry - did you have blood flow into a very inappropriate apendages at a very inappropriate time? Hugh - Jerry? All people have a strange gay moment in grade 6 - when suddenly they become arosed by something beautiful - personally I have a strange attraction to strawberry ice cream ...and - when I see a couple of scopes displayed in a bowl - I get horney - Jerry - does that make me a bad person? OR a homo - ?

[Topaz]

Someone being Gay happens in the first three months of the pregnancy, when the chromosomes get mixed up. For example, a male fetus, ended up with more XX than XY and the reverse for females. The Discovery Channel as a story about this and yes, its not normal but then again there's lots of disabilities( for a lack of a better word) that are normal and it shouldn't the the most important thing about the person. I find more normal males are MORE problems with gays than woman do. I wonder if that has something to do that the gay males are thinking those little sexual thoughts that straight usual think about women?? It makes them uncomfortable that another man would even think of having those thought about them.

[Shady]

I agree that being gay isn't normal. It's hard to argue against that. Also, it's pretty obvious that people are born gay. But at the same time, one cannot deny that being gay is a kind of birth defect. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing though. But it is a error in the human wiring.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I agree that being gay isn't normal. It's hard to argue against that. Also, it's pretty obvious that people are born gay. But at the same time, one cannot deny that being gay is a kind of birth defect. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing though. But it is a error in the human wiring.

I agree with the above.

It's not normal.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Let's recap your points so far. You think being gay isn't normal. You think that people should have the right to say something isn't normal. You think that the "left" is saying your opinions aren't normal. You are now offended at being accused of abnormal discourse. Congratulations on successfully arguing against yourself. If tolerance means tolerating opinions you don't like then why did you even start this thread with a post that essentially says you're tired of tolerating the gay lifestyle?

The key point is the language of public discourse and the left's stranglehold upon this language.

Keep in mind I never once said anything about not allowing people to be gay. I said I don't have to like it and I should be free to say so without being branded a bigot.

The left has such a stranglehold on language that it has made it next to impossible to open up a conversation about anything, to be critical of any kind of behavior or religion without being told to basically shut up.

Since when is expressing one's opinion so bad?

You have the right not to like my opinion, yes I accept that. But you don't have the right to tell me to shut up.

In a truly free society, gays can be gays, I can say it's not normal and you can say you disagree. And no one gets hauled out in front of a "human rights" commission. As a conservative I am standing up against this tyranny.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Let's recap your points so far. You think being gay isn't normal. You think that people should have the right to say something isn't normal. You think that the "left" is saying your opinions aren't normal. You are now offended at being accused of abnormal discourse. Congratulations on successfully arguing against yourself. If tolerance means tolerating opinions you don't like then why did you even start this thread with a post that essentially says you're tired of tolerating the gay lifestyle?

Your logic is flawed because of a lack of intelligence or (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) you haven't been following the news.

In a real world example ...

the playing field isn't as equal as you're pretending it is in your post.

The left not only has the right to speak freely by branding people bigots for espousing perfectly mainstream views, but also carries with it the full weight of government "quasi" kangaroo courts, set up entirely to shut down debate, to shut up dissenters and to crush freedom of speech in this country.

You missed it. Unlike your thin skinned pals in the above link, unable to take a bit of criticism without unleashing government thought police on someone, I can take criticism. I'm not "offended at being accused of abnormal discourse" - rather I'm appalled that the left has such a stranglehold on language that they've actually enlisted a "speech police" to make anyone who doesn't talk like they do pay the price.

It's tyranny and it's wrong.

Edited June 6, 2009 by JerrySeinfeld

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I see the statement of 'gay is not normal' is just a truism.

A certain percentage of any species' population is homosexual. The percentage of homosexuals to heterosexuals in any population is usually quite low, so it is absolutely correct to say that the minority of the group are 'abnormal' - depending on what you take normal to be:

nor·mal [ náwrm'l ]

adjective

Definition:

1. usual: conforming to the usual standard, type, or custom <<<< in this case, homosexuals are abnormal. Most of the population is heterosexual.

2. healthy: physically, mentally, and emotionally healthy <<<< neither abnormal or normal. A homosexual pretending to be hetero, or a hetero pretending to be homo could be considered mentally or emotionally abnormal.

3. occurring naturally: maintained or occurring in a natural state <<<< in this case, completely normal. Homosexuality occurs naturally in many species - including homo sapiens.

At the end of the day, who cares? Gays exist, live with it.

[JerrySeinfeld]

At the end of the day, who cares? Gays exist, live with it.

As I have stated several times already in the thread, the issue is not to "allow" gays to be gay.

The issue relates to my ability to talk about them without being shut up by kangaroo courts.

A comedian is being hauled in front of the BC human rights tribunals right now. This is extremely tyranical and borders on fascism.

Even if the complainant isn't successful, the way these courts are structured, the complainant bears no expense, while the defendant is forced to foot his own legals costs.

What this amounts to is that no financially resposible person would dare try to voice his/her opinions about gays in public ever again, for fear of being hauled out on the carpet in an expensive attempt to defend his or her right to free speech in this country.

That is borderline fascism and it's wrong.

Look. If I say "I don't thinkk gay is normal" and some lefty says "I think you're wrong", THAT is healthy public discourse. But if you introduce a government speech police making it expremely onerous and expensive to defend your right to that discourse, you're shutting down debate and not allowing people to express themselves freely.

That's not a free society. That is left a left wing, state sponsored stranglehold on the "proper" use of language. Thats fascism.

[BubberMiley]

I agree that being gay isn't normal. It's hard to argue against that. Also, it's pretty obvious that people are born gay. But at the same time, one cannot deny that being gay is a kind of birth defect. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing though. But it is a error in the human wiring.

What kind of god makes faulty products and then condemns them to hell for it?

[canfan]

The key point is the language of public discourse and the left's stranglehold upon this language.

Keep in mind I never once said anything about not allowing people to be gay. I said I don't have to like it and I should be free to say so without being branded a bigot.

The left has such a stranglehold on language that it has made it next to impossible to open up a conversation about anything, to be critical of any kind of behavior or religion without being told to basically shut up.

Since when is expressing one's opinion so bad?

You have the right not to like my opinion, yes I accept that. But you don't have the right to tell me to shut up.

In a truly free society, gays can be gays, I can say it's not normal and you can say you disagree. And no one gets hauled out in front of a "human rights" commission. As a conservative I am standing up against this tyranny.

You can't say you've got the right to call someone abnormal and then say that someone else doesn't have the right to call you a bigot. And that has nothing to do with human rights commissions since the people on here implying you're a bigot aren't hauling you before a commission. Everyone is entitled to their opinions including you and the person who disagrees with you. It's hypocritical for you to say that people can't tell you to shut up when in your 1st post you implied that gays should shut up and not even show a rainbow flag or bumper sticker.

[canfan]

Your logic is flawed because of a lack of intelligence or (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) you haven't been following the news.

In a real world example ...

the playing field isn't as equal as you're pretending it is in your post.

The left not only has the right to speak freely by branding people bigots for espousing perfectly mainstream views, but also carries with it the full weight of government "quasi" kangaroo courts, set up entirely to shut down debate, to shut up dissenters and to crush freedom of speech in this country.

You missed it. Unlike your thin skinned pals in the above link, unable to take a bit of criticism without unleashing government thought police on someone, I can take criticism. I'm not "offended at being accused of abnormal discourse" - rather I'm appalled that the left has such a stranglehold on language that they've actually enlisted a "speech police" to make anyone who doesn't talk like they do pay the price.

It's tyranny and it's wrong.

Of course since you don't agree with me I must lack intelligence. I forgot that's how the internet works. Here's a link you should take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

I didn't talk about human rights tribunals because you hadn't talked about them up until that point. You didn't talk about them until you needed a way out of the corner you had painted yourself into. Speaking of flawed logic you can't support your claim that mainstream views are that gays are abnormal by linking to a story on gay marriage. Especially where the vote was 52% to 48%.

[canfan]

I see the statement of 'gay is not normal' is just a truism.

A certain percentage of any species' population is homosexual. The percentage of homosexuals to heterosexuals in any population is usually quite low, so it is absolutely correct to say that the minority of the group are 'abnormal' - depending on what you take normal to be:

If your definition of normal is to compare one specific trait against the rest of the population then everyone is abnormal. It's important to realize that within a population it's perfectly normal to have variations. Nature shows us that it's normal for a certain percentage of a population to be homosexual.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Of course since you don't agree with me I must lack intelligence. I forgot that's how the internet works. Here's a link you should take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

I didn't talk about human rights tribunals because you hadn't talked about them up until that point. You didn't talk about them until you needed a way out of the corner you had painted yourself into. Speaking of flawed logic you can't support your claim that mainstream views are that gays are abnormal by linking to a story on gay marriage. Especially where the vote was 52% to 48%.

Oh so Obama isn't mainstream. Wasn't that about his margin of victory?

You don't seem to understand that speech and freedom are the crux of the issue.

Can we agree then that hauling someone before a kangaroo court BCHRT is a tyranican trampling upon freedom?

There is a famous saying: the true test of true freedom of speech is if you allow someone to say things that absolutely disgust you, but still allow them to be said.

If you truly think that I hadn't thought about the tribunals, that I only brought them up because I "backed into a corner" you haven't fully considered that perhaps I said the things I said in the original post to make the precise point of the above sentiment, and that in fact it is you who has been backed into the corner by me, and are now trying to somehow marginalize my very true statements by stating that my view 1. isn't mainstream and that 2. the human rights tribunals aren't at the very heart of this matter.

Answer the question.

Edited June 6, 2009 by JerrySeinfeld

[WIP]

OK. If you're straight man, like me, try to imagine this:

I dont care what anyone says, being gay is not normal.

Someonee I know just "came out of the closet" and it's the most annoying thing in the world.

Spoken like a true authoritarian conservative fascist. I'm left handed - is that okay? After all, 90% of the population is right handed; but I prefer to write lefthanded, throw a ball, and even kick with my left foot -- like most lefthanders, it is actually a complete side preference, not merely hand preference.

That should give you an indication that not everyone likes or dislikes the same things...but the idea of letting people pursue their own personal choices escapes you....like it does for other authoritarians, who want us all believing the exact same things.

So not only is gay's sexual behavior abnormal, but so is their social behavior.

I don't know if this has already been posted, but I just can't resist:

Gay penguin couple adopts abandoned egg in German zoo

and that should explain why same-sex coupling, which has been observed occurring in virtually every animal, bird, and even a few reptiles, is not "abnormal." Those two gay penguins have just shown us how this sort of behaviour sometimes provides an evolutionary advantage, and why it has never been removed by the process of natural selection in all of these millions of years. Live and let live!

[JerrySeinfeld]

...and that should explain why same-sex coupling, which has been observed occurring in virtually every animal, bird, and even a few reptiles, is not "abnormal." Those two gay penguins have just shown us how this sort of behaviour sometimes provides an evolutionary advantage, and why it has never been removed by the process of natural selection in all of these millions of years. Live and let live!

I love it when logical midgets try to use animals as a "shining example" of normalcy.

Lots of animals eat poo too. Then again, so do gays.

ok. point taken

[Smallc]

Funny how it meets at least two definition of the world normal. Not only can gays be grouped in type or regular pattern, but they occur naturally.....so it is normal. Also, they don't deviate from the rule or the norm (there are always gays).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normal

Edited June 6, 2009 by Smallc

[Sabre Rider]

I love it when logical midgets try to use animals as a "shining example" of normalcy.

Lots of animals eat poo too. Then again, so do gays.

ok. point taken

Jeez, you are a right wanker aren't ya?

Homosexuality is pretty universal throughout the animal kingdom. All primate species of which humans are a member of have a homosexual percentage in their population, along with a bi-sexual population, get over it.

As scat fetishism and homosexuality, yeah there are those gays into such things, but then again so are a number of so-call normal heterosexual men. Fetishism is not bound by sexuality, but rather is part of an individuals sexual make up. I happen to have a thing for women with small perky breasts with is against the norm that favours big breasts, does that make me abnormal or strange?

Actually, I think that this is crux of your problem:

Someone I know just "came out of the closet" and it's the most annoying thing in the world.

Let me guess, someone close to you, who you considered to be a "Man's man" and now has come out to play for the other side? Bet you felt betrayed and judging from your squawking, resentful that he had the balls to do so while you still are fighting those urges.

You see a gay guy driving down the street with one of those rainbow bumper stickers on his car. I mean, basically you've got a big sign on your car that says "I love the big cock". really, is that entirely necessary.

Yup, you are a right wanker. People put all kinds of stickers on their cars, denoting religious affiliations, union affiliations, team affiliations, political affiliations, professional affiliations, heritage affiliations, national affiliations, school affiliations, even favorite radio stations. And when I was younger, I had a bumper sicker that proclaimed that I liked pussy. So how is the rainbow sticker any different eh?

You say you don't hate gays and I am calling bullshit. Your hatred and fear is plain to see in your writings. Maybe you should be honest with yourself and just get out of the closet eh? Too misquote Shakespeare, "Methinks you doth protest too much"

[Sabre Rider]

Funny how it meets at least two definition of the world normal. Not only can gays be grouped in type or regular pattern, but they occur naturally.....so it is normal. Also, they don't deviate from the rule or the norm (there are always gays).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normal

As my statistical analysis instructor put it, normality can only be found of the fat end of the bell curve, in the real world the majority of things fall either to the left or the right to the statistical mean.

[Shady]

What kind of god makes faulty products and then condemns them to hell for it?

I'm not really sure what causes the birth defect. And I'm not really sure they're condemned to hell for it. Go ask a doctor and a priest.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Shady

[canfan]

Oh so Obama isn't mainstream. Wasn't that about his margin of victory?

Unsurprisingly you missed the point. You're talking about how normal or abnormal it is to be gay then tried to say it was a mainstream view by linking to an article on gay marriage. It's obvious that gay marriage is a different issue for most people than simply being gay. Not only that but an almost 50-50 split in opinion means that you can't say 1 opinion is mainstream and the other isn't.

You don't seem to understand that speech and freedom are the crux of the issue.

Funny how it wasn't the crux of the issue in your thread title or op.

Can we agree then that hauling someone before a kangaroo court BCHRT is a tyranican trampling upon freedom?

No. Human rights tribunals aren't kangaroo courts. There are cases that they hear that in my opinion shouldn't be heard but there are also lots of cases where they do good work. Expecting any organization to do what you want it to all of the time is idiotic. People are mistakenly charged with crimes but that doesn't mean we throw out our entire justice system.

There is a famous saying: the true test of true freedom of speech is if you allow someone to say things that absolutely disgust you, but still allow them to be said.

If you truly think that I hadn't thought about the tribunals, that I only brought them up because I "backed into a corner" you haven't fully considered that perhaps I said the things I said in the original post to make the precise point of the above sentiment, and that in fact it is you who has been backed into the corner by me, and are now trying to somehow marginalize my very true statements by stating that my view 1. isn't mainstream and that 2. the human rights tribunals aren't at the very heart of this matter.

Answer the question.

So it's the "I have such an important point to make that I won't make it until someone points out that what I'm actually saying doesn't make sense" approach to discussion. You moved the goalposts just admit it. You called gays abnormal then complained that your viewpoints were considered abnormal by the left. Only then did you start talking about human rights tribunals. Noone has said they want to take you before a human rights tribunal so you didn't even make that point. We're letting you express your opinion here without any legal consequences.

[JerrySeinfeld]

So it's the "I have such an important point to make that I won't make it until someone points out that what I'm actually saying doesn't make sense" approach to discussion. You moved the goalposts just admit it. You called gays abnormal then complained that your viewpoints were considered abnormal by the left. Only then did you start talking about human rights tribunals. Noone has said they want to take you before a human rights tribunal so you didn't even make that point. We're letting you express your opinion here without any legal consequences.

No. I led you down the garden path so that the point would be made more clearly. For the unintelligent, the best way to make them understand something is for them to experience it first hand. If you had some trouble following the fashion in which I have mopped the floor with you, that's your issue. However the issue at hadn still applies and you can't red-herring your lack of retort by trying to attack my methods instead of actually making an argument.

The key issue here is that I should have the right to say things, even unpopular things, about gays or any other "distinct group". That's how the thread started. And it was a perfect launching pad for the discussion. I know it may have been a bit complex for you.

As long as I'm anonymous on a web forum, I'm safe. And I appreciate that you are "allowing" (lol) me to speak freely.

But you can't make the argument that our country is a safe place for people of all beliefs to speak freely, because in actual real world examples, people are being punished for speaking their minds by contradicting left wing dogma.

THAT is fascism.

[BubberMiley]

For the unintelligent, the best way to make them understand something is for them to experience it first hand.

And this is how you've come to understand homosexuality?

[JerrySeinfeld]

And this is how you've come to understand homosexuality?

good one. but i never said i understand it...it's the left that has claim on that one