August1991 Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 This has all the makings of a disaster. Russia's state savings bank (by far the largest bank in Russia) is offering up 35% of the capital. The Russia government is doing this because it expects to get German/GM technology. (A senior minister said that Opel is a cheap buy.) Meanwhile, the Germans expect to keep producing cars in Germany. Finally, Canadians think that they will be producing Opels and Opel parts in Canada. Canada will have a national auto maker now that Magna International Inc. has won the bidding to take over Adam Opel AG. “We want to build Opel cars in Canada,” Magna chairman Frank Stronach said late Friday from Vienna as he awaited confirmation that the Canadian auto-parts giant had indeed won the backing of the German government for a deal that would give it and its partners a controlling stake. “Canada should have its own Canadian company … a truly Canadian automobile industry,” he said, although he did not indicate where in Canada the cars would be built. G&MWell, people in these three countries cannot all be right. Stronach can cadge money from governments in the other two but our federal government shouldn't give him a dime. ----- The practical matter is that it is better to manufacture cars and parts in other countries with other workers. Canada no longer makes TVs nor does it produce garments. I wonder if GM debtholders are unhappy to see Opel go. The departure of Opel may improve their position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 I will suggest that Magna will come out on top of this deal. I am willing to bet that cars will be built here, considering there is a lot of production capacity available between defunct GM and Chrysler plants. Besides, Magna is a parts manufacturer and the downturn in North American production hurt them, this is a logical extension of their corporate effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Magna bought Opel with the German government's approval as far as I read. The cars are going to be made in Germany. Maybe some of the parts will be built here. This looks like a vertical acquisition to me in that Magna now has a guaranteed buyer for its car parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 If Magna were to use its head, they would go to Bombardier, partner up, and buy some mothballed auto plants in Quebec and Ontario. You want to sell auto parts? Buy the company that uses them and start building autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 How is a 20% Canadian company, Canadian owned? Huh? Opel is now more a Russian company than a Canadian company. The government should be supporting (if anyone, which they should not be) real Canadian champions like our banks and oil firms. That's it. These are foreign firms, even if Frank "The Race Horse" Stronach is in charge. Do we really want our tax dollars supporting a company that's purpose is to allow Frank to buy a few more thoroughbreds? This has nothing to do with Canada or Canadian firms. This is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 The government should be supporting (if anyone, which they should not be) real Canadian champions like our banks and oil firms. That's it. Yes, we should only support things that you care about. To hell with the auto industy and the seal hunt and agriculture and anything you don't see a need for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Huh? This isn't even Canadian. Production is in Germany and it's owned by Russians more than Canadians. Why would you want your tax dollars supporting this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Huh? This isn't even Canadian. Production is in Germany and it's owned by Russians more than Canadians. Why would you want your tax dollars supporting this? Because they hope to make it something Canadian. Yes, a group of Russians wil lhold a larger share, but we now have a Canadian autmoaker that will hopefully be good for this country. Where does it say tax dollars are going into this, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Because they hope to make it something Canadian. Yes, a group of Russians wil lhold a larger share, but we now have a Canadian autmoaker that will hopefully be good for this country. Where does it say tax dollars are going into this, anyway? I think you missed the part where we said it wouldn't be a Canadian automaker. The cars won't be produced here. The majority of ownership is outside of Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Most of it is owned (80%) by non-Canadians. Cars to be made in Germany. What is Canadian about this? Your just blinded by the glory of the media smallC. Think rationally for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Most of it is owned (80%) by non-Canadians. Cars to be made in Germany. What is Canadian about this? Your just blinded by the glory of the media smallC. Think rationally for a second. So I ask again, where does it say that tax dollars wil lbe supporting this. I realize that most of the company will be owned by non Canadians, but a Canadian will be partly in control of this company and he says that he wants to make Opel cars in Canada. Be a little optemistic for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Canadian tax dollars are supporting the bailout of GM (current owner of Opel) and allowing them to sell the assets. Otherwise, Opel would belong to the bondholders. Germany allowed the transaction on the condition that cars would be made in Germany. That was a fundamental part of the agreement. Frank can lie through his teeth all he wants about how great this is for Canada, but it's just good for him and his racehorses. No cars will be produced in Canada. Maybe a few more parts or what not (exactly following my point in the other thread, part markers will just shift to other companies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I wouldn't buy an Opel made in Canada anyway...Opels come from the Bundesrepublik Deutschland. SUVs come from Canada...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Germany allowed the transaction on the condition that cars would be made in Germany. Cars can be made in both Germany and Canada...and it's interesting convoluted logic you have going on there. Because we were bailing out GM anyway, your tax dollars would have been supporting someone else bailing out GM....since Magna stepped in, we now own part of the company. What this really all boils down to is you wanting to hate this. You want to hate it because it helps Ontario and union workers...well...too bad, your Conservative government did it...and so you can't even blame it on the east or the unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Cars can be made in both Germany and Canada...and it's interesting convoluted logic you have going on there. Because we were bailing out GM anyway, your tax dollars would have been supporting someone else bailing out GM....since Magna stepped in, we now own part of the company.What this really all boils down to is you wanting to hate this. You want to hate it because it helps Ontario and union workers...well...too bad, your Conservative government did it...and so you can't even blame it on the east or the unions. It's not convoluted logic. The majority of Magna's sales are to the Big 3 automakers. If not for the bailout, Magna would be a disaster. Nobody is 'hating' on this deal, it's just that the reality of things is that no vehicles will be produced in Canada in the forseeable future. Think about it. What the hell is Opel? What's the brand recognition in North America? Zero? I'd never heard of them before this. What do you think it would cost to start up dealership networks, production and advertising for a totally unheard-of car manufacturer in North America? I'll let you work out the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Think about it. What the hell is Opel? Saturn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Frank Stonach - had a fight over a race horse with a local - the guy burned up in his Cadilliac... The investigators were told to back off - a local York Regional cop told me that she was told to dismiss the fraud squad and those investingating the death, Cossino - who I knew as a kid was a cop that loved to take out the local ruffians when he was a constable and beat the shit our of them on the back roads -became police chief in time . He took an interest free loan from frank for about 250 thousand dollars - the investingation stopped - Lawyers at the local court house in New Market Ontario - dared not mention Franks name - Frank was an aggressive atheist backed by old Nazi money- I asked a neighbour of his if Frank would hurt you if you offended him _ the reputable sourse said yes ---Magna can f - off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Frank Stonach - had a fight over a race horse with a local - the guy burned up in his Cadilliac... The investigators were told to back off - a local York Regional cop told me that she was told to dismiss the fraud squad and those investingating the death, Cossino - who I knew as a kid was a cop that loved to take out the local ruffians when he was a constable and beat the shit our of them on the back roads -became police chief in time . He took an interest free loan from frank for about 250 thousand dollars - the investingation stopped - Lawyers at the local court house in New Market Ontario - dared not mention Franks name - Frank was an aggressive atheist backed by old Nazi money- I asked a neighbour of his if Frank would hurt you if you offended him _ the reputable sourse said yes ---Magna can f - off. Belinda is an idiot - and if you so much as try to sell a piece of art with a figure - and a hallo - frank will shut you down - dealing with Magna is like dealing with Hiter- take my advice and shut the mother fuckers down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Saturn. Opel and Saturn are not the same brand. As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) GM was planning to integrate the two brands by 2014. As far as I know they never did and Opel is not Saturn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) Opel and Saturn are not the same brand. As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) GM was planning to integrate the two brands by 2014. As far as I know they never did and Opel is not Saturn. Some Saturns are Opels (the Astra...parts of the Aura). Not completely as was planned, and it will never get there. Opel cars could work in Canada, but I doubt we'll see them any time soon, but I don't doubt that we will eventually. Edited June 2, 2009 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Opel and Saturn are not the same brand. As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) GM was planning to integrate the two brands by 2014. As far as I know they never did and Opel is not Saturn. Too little and too late. Opel is a much older brand, but it has a lot in common with Saturn models doesn't it. A Euro-Saturn if you will.......at any rate I hope Frank builds the damned things here in the land of the Canuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Too little and too late. Opel is a much older brand, but it has a lot in common with Saturn models doesn't it. A Euro-Saturn if you will.......at any rate I hope Frank builds the damned things here in the land of the Canuck. Yeah most Saturn models are based on Opel designs. They're still not the same brand though and I can't see Magna making a bid on Saturn. Saturns have a bad reputation regardless and I don't think Magna wants to get in on that mess unless they get a REAL firesale price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Yeah most Saturn models are based on Opel designs. They're still not the same brand though and I can't see Magna making a bid on Saturn. Saturns have a bad reputation regardless and I don't think Magna wants to get in on that mess unless they get a REAL firesale price. I think I would like him to do that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I don't see how this is going to work. Any cars made in Canada cannot be sold in the US market. But General Motors has insisted as part of the deal that Opel vehicles not be sold in the U.S. market.Nonetheless, Mr. Stronach wants to build some Opel cars in Canada for sale in North America. “I would like to see that the first electric car facilities are here in Canada,” he told reporters in Ottawa yesterday. “If we would get a loan, we know we could speed it up; we could make sure it's going to be in Canada.” G&MSo, what we really have is an Austrian entrepreneur using Russian government money to buy a German subsidiary from a bankrupt American company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Frank just says that for the support of the government. He's trying to get Ottawa to finance his Green cars (what's another $300mm). Your right though, condition of the deal is that cars can't be sold to the US. So it seems silly to produce cars for just the Canadian market over here. I doubt if we'll ever see a car produced in Canada. But I'm sure we'll financially support Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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