How to Deprogram a Liberal in One Year Or Less

[Alta4ever]

May 21, 2009

How to Deprogram a Liberal in One Year Or Less

By Robin of Berkeley

So what do you do when you realize that everything you've ever thought and believed no longer worked for you? Where do you go when the bubble of progressive politics bursts in your face and you're left in the leftist place on earth? It seems that the choices are as follows: either you cling to your beliefs even more zealously and attack anyone who dares to disagree. Or, if you're like me, you embark on a journey of discovery and recovery.

I wrote another piece recently for American Thinker, a letter of amends to conservatives. In it I described why I transformed from a Berkeley leftist to a talk radio loving conservative the last 1 1/2 years. I realized the Democratic Party wasn't what I thought, that it had mutated into something mean and rough, and that I had probably been living in a fantasy world all along. I very much appreciated the outpouring of support, wisdom, and forgiveness from American Thinker readers.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/how...liberal_in.html

I thought this to be a great article and wanted to share it with you all.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Alta4ever

[jdobbin]

I thought this to be a great article and wanted to share it with you all.

Which says nothing about what policies or ideas made him switch. He just focuses on the some of the most negative aspects of what he thinks the Democrats are.

It is typical right wing bashing of the other side.

Not surprisingly, the right wing and Republicans are flailing about now in search of direction.

[Oleg Bach]

Send a warm hearted feel good liberal into the family court system - and I guarentee you after two mouths you will have a conservative - desperately trying to conserve what is of real value in his life - and liberal authorities will take away what is valuable - and expect you to thank you for the robbery later.

[jdobbin]

Send a warm hearted feel good liberal into the family court system - and I guarentee you after two mouths you will have a conservative - desperately trying to conserve what is of real value in his life - and liberal authorities will take away what is valuable - and expect you to thank you for the robbery later.

I take it you have been through the family court system and would rather have settled things the "old fashioned" way?

[Sir Bandelot]

Brand names such as "Liberal", "Conservative" have no meaning when applied to individuals. Who really is a "Liberal" through and through? Beyond their political party affiliations I mean.

Even politicians jump ship, go to the "other side" when its to their personal advantage. I think such loyalty to a brand name with fixed ideas, is foolish. The whole idea that liberalism and conservatism must be mutually exclusive, is foolish.

[Radsickle]

Brand names such as "Liberal", "Conservative" have no meaning when applied to individuals. Who really is a "Liberal" through and through? Beyond their political party affiliations I mean.

Even politicians jump ship, go to the "other side" when its to their personal advantage. I think such loyalty to a brand name with fixed ideas, is foolish. The whole idea that liberalism and conservatism must be mutually exclusive, is foolish.

Socially Liberal, Economically Conservative and visa versa are very common among us. That's why the smart politicians shoot for the centre.

But this Conservative party seems to have a vendetta against the centrists of the Progressive Conservative Party of old.

This Conservative Party wants to be American Republicans.

[August1991]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/how...liberal_in.html

I thought this to be a great article and wanted to share it with you all.

When I read that article, I thought of this thread that I started here a long time ago.

Do Leftists eventually turn Right, or do Conservatives eventually wake up?

When I started that thread, I was genuinely curious to know why people changed sides - and I wondered whether new converts were more doctrinaire. Well, the responses were fascinating.

Call me partisan but I think there is some truth to the rumour that Leftists are childlike and the Right is more mature. It seems to me that "Robin of Berkeley" puts the emphasis on the childish schoolyard bully tactics of the Left. It seems to me that the issue is much broader. I think Hayek said that ultimately, for the Left, it is a question of control.

[wyly]

how turn a liberal into a conservative...a lobotomy

[Alta4ever]

When I read that article, I thought of this thread that I started here a long time ago.

Do Leftists eventually turn Right, or do Conservatives eventually wake up?

When I started that thread, I was genuinely curious to know why people changed sides - and I wondered whether new converts were more doctrinaire. Well, the responses were fascinating.

Call me partisan but I think there is some truth to the rumour that Leftists are childlike and the Right is more mature. It seems to me that "Robin of Berkeley" puts the emphasis on the childish schoolyard bully tactics of the Left. It seems to me that the issue is much broader. I think Hayek said that ultimately, for the Left, it is a question of control.

Interesting take on the article. I wsa close to the same what I wish she had gotten into more was what it was she was hearing/reading from the radio personalities and authors that changed her mind. I am also curiuous to the situtation that led her to re-evaluate all of her previously held convictions.

I know what did it for me.... but that is different story.

[Alta4ever]

Letter of Amends from a Recovering Liberal in Berkeley

By Robin of Berkeley

Dear friends, family, loved ones, conservatives, Republicans, libertarians, my brother in law, Sam, and my cousin Joe: I am sorry and you were right.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/let...m_a_recove.html

A little bit of the why.

[Sir Bandelot]

Call me partisan but I think there is some truth to the rumour that Leftists are childlike and the Right is more mature.

Really? Then explain how a thread like this, with the provokative title is "mature"...

[eyeball]

I think Hayek said that ultimately, for the Left, it is a question of control.

It seems to me the nature of conservatism requires increasing government controls over things to ensure they only change slowly if at all.

[kuzadd]

Brand names such as "Liberal", "Conservative" have no meaning when applied to individuals. Who really is a "Liberal" through and through? Beyond their political party affiliations I mean.

Even politicians jump ship, go to the "other side" when its to their personal advantage. I think such loyalty to a brand name with fixed ideas, is foolish. The whole idea that liberalism and conservatism must be mutually exclusive, is foolish.

could not agree more! How to deprogram and person to actually have a thought outside of any party line, would be better.

How about, how to think outside of prescribed political ideologies?

How about, How to think for yourself, and stop letting politicos lead you buy the nose.

Look at the politican who cross the floor, they aren't even loyal to their brand.

Look at Obama, can you see the difference between him and Bush?

I can't see the difference, oh yeah, different brand name , right....

btw: bandelot did you see this picture, it is brilliant!

I like to call it "the more things change, the more they are the same

spot on, isn't it!

[Sir Bandelot]

lmao

[Pliny]

It seems to me the nature of conservatism requires increasing government controls over things to ensure they only change slowly if at all.

You would be talking about socialism and both Liberalism and Conservatism are subject to it as long as they promise their constituents anything from the public coffers which they have to in order to get elected. This is the basic flaw of democracy - voting yourself entitlements.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Pliny

[Pliny]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/how...liberal_in.html

I thought this to be a great article and wanted to share it with you all.

Thanks for sharing.

I find myself aligned more to the right but are the right and Conservatism at all similar? After all, Canada's Conservatives are not right of centre just right of the Liberals.

[Bonam]

Canada's political spectrum is the extreme far left (NDP), the far left (Liberals), and the left (Conservatives). We have no parties that represent anything approaching traditional right wing ideas such as small government, free markets, and personal responsibility. Of course, that's mainly because such ideas have been all but purged out of Canadians.

[Pliny]

Canada's political spectrum is the extreme far left (NDP), the far left (Liberals), and the left (Conservatives). We have no parties that represent anything approaching traditional right wing ideas such as small government, free markets, and personal responsibility. Of course, that's mainly because such ideas have been all but purged out of Canadians.

Well, the count is now two not purged.

I am of the opinion that the current model of the political spectrum does not serve us well by conveying any immediate understanding of where political parties should be positioned on the spectrum.

I believe the totalitarian to anarchy spectrum is a better vehicle for understanding clearly where to position political parties.

Many Canadians believe the Conservative party is the right wing party. Your positioning of the parties on the contemporary model shows the right wing unoccupied and the major parties closer together than one would think but it does explain why there is not much difference in our governance even though different parties are elected.

The fallacy that the conservatives are right wing leads to thie being labelled as fascists. When in fact I find the Liberals to be more similar to fascism. The fact is they are both about big government and Fascism is a form of totalitarianism as is communism or the totally socialist state. Ideologically Communism and Fascism are placed as opposites but in fact they are about the total central authority of the State and the differences are mostly in who is in control. Especially from the view of the subjects of either tyranny. They are only aware of the fact that they are oppressed.

So size of government and it's level of socio-economic engineering would be the determining factor for positioning on the newer model of the political spectrum.

We have seen through history that democracy tends to grow government as the people vote themselves entitlements and largesse. If they voted strictly regarding the purpose of government, that being protecting the sanctity of person and property of the individual and the delivery of justice we could see that we would place this closer to the anarchy side of the spectrum.

It is easier for the public to see as well the economic cost of government. At a certain point on the scale the government will become too costly for the nation's economy to sustain. And if it attempts to manipulate the economy for it's benefit, hiding the true cost fo government, the economy eventually collapses. The point of collapse would be close to the totalitarian side of the spectrum and would result in a removal of the current governing body in order to either install a totalitarian regime or throw off the yoke of government.

[Alta4ever]

The fallacy that the conservatives are right wing leads to thie being labelled as fascists. When in fact I find the Liberals to be more similar to fascism. The fact is they are both about big government and Fascism is a form of totalitarianism as is communism or the totally socialist state. Ideologically Communism and Fascism are placed as opposites but in fact they are about the total central authority of the State and the differences are mostly in who is in control. Especially from the view of the subjects of either tyranny. They are only aware of the fact that they are oppressed.

Have you read liberal facism yet?

[Wild Bill]

Call me partisan but I think there is some truth to the rumour that Leftists are childlike and the Right is more mature. It seems to me that "Robin of Berkeley" puts the emphasis on the childish schoolyard bully tactics of the Left. It seems to me that the issue is much broader. I think Hayek said that ultimately, for the Left, it is a question of control.

You can't plot a curve from only one data point but I would suggest a comparison between 'rubble.com' and this board would tend to support your point. 'Rubble' is a leftist board, where almost all posts are lewd and crude. Ad hominem attacks rule, profanity is deplorable and rarely are arguments settled by debate. Shock and intimidation are the order of the day.

Whereas MLW is relatively civilized! We have a few exceptions but for the most part posters are polite and respectful. Some of us would not label MLW as a truly 'right wing' board but certainly it would be if compared to 'Rubble'.

Childish is as childish does, I say.

[Wild Bill]

But this Conservative party seems to have a vendetta against the centrists of the Progressive Conservative Party of old.

This Conservative Party wants to be American Republicans.

Interesting. Is that the way it seems to you? I bailed on the PCP to join Reform after Mulroney's terms. Now, after the parties have merged, it looks to me like the PCP has successfully seized control! Those 'centrists', as YOU define them are now running the show. All the Reform party planks are 'Down the memory hole, Winston!"

This is why I and many other former Reformers support the new party only by default. The best that can be said of them is that they are NOT Liberals!

It's quite true that Canada has no right wing parties. Our choices are now the same as they've always been. Red, pink and rose(eh)!

As for wanting to be American-style conservatives, I would be interested in hearing how you would prove that point. They look entirely different to me. Your premise sounds like simple partisan jingoism.

Anyhow, as I keep saying, today I truly wonder why Manning ever bothered...

[cybercoma]

This Conservative Party wants to be American Republicans.

I have some pretty liberal views sometimes and even I would disagree with that. The Conservative Party of Canada isn't anywhere remotely close to being American Republicans, nor would they be successful if they forced those types of policies onto Canadians.

[cybercoma]

There are no extreme anythings in Canada (those parties aren't even given consideration). These arguments always amuse me. You have the Liberals, New Democrats, and Conservatives all hovering somewhere around the middle, but people like to throw mud calling one party or the other extreme left or extreme right. I don't see any party advocating tearing down our social systems and having laissez-faire capitalism handle everything (education, health care, pensions, welfare, employment insurance, etc.). Furthermore, there are no completely fascist leftists that want to have complete government control over everything from social services to industry. Sure, there's a Marxist-Leninist Party and a Communist Party, but those folks are on the fringe. No one pays any attention to them. Our major political parties are the furthest thing from extreme and anyone that says otherwise is just foolish.

[Bonam]

Furthermore, there are no completely fascist leftists that want to have complete government control over everything from social services to industry.

Not fascist perhaps, but certainly leftist enough to do those things. The government already controls social services by the way, and plays an ever-increasing role in industry. The Conservatives (leftists) implement the growth of government control over all aspects of life slowly, while the Liberals and NDP clamor for it to be done more quickly and more aggressively.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I used to be a hard core left wing socialist. All through high school and university.

Alot of it was probably because of how sympathetically the left perspective is taught in schools.

I see so many college students today who are exactly the same as I was.

The typical lefty is idealistic in his need to feel good about believing in helping people, and equaling the playing field, not realizing that there are things in this world such as accountability, consequence, risk and reward, or that not all problems are solved by throwing more government (ie taxpayer) money at them. But August 1991 is right: the left is childlike in it's realizations about reality and how the world works. Since many leftwingers expect aot more from government, many are basically grown up childeren who haven't figured out how to accept taking care of their own adult resposibilities (eg. health care, savings, pension) in my opinion.

The old saying "if you aren't a left winger when you're young you have no heart, if you're not a conservative when you grow up, you have no brain" is so true.

My converstion began in university as I started to look around at the left wing mentality and started to think outside of what the media and the socialist schooling were feeding me. I began rejecting some of the fodder being fed by professors, to question the "accepted wisdom" that all right wingers are evil-doers with no heart. I also started to realize that iff I wwanteed something in life, I had a choice of two roads: join the private sector, work extremely hard and achieve what I wanted to without asking for or expecting any help from anyone. OR, join the whiney masses and start demading that someone else do more for me. I chose the former, in other worlds, I grew up. Then as I entered the working world I started to read more beelieefs from the other side, and listen to talk radio - one of the best mediums for right wing thinking.

Why is it so good? because I believe ideas that are well though out often don't do well in soundbites. Obama can give horrendously good speeched about saving the planet and pushing back the waters (literally - he did that, remember? "let it be remembered that this was the moment when the oceans stopped rising" hahahaha)....but day to day on the ground issues and discussions about the ridiculousness of the Canadian Human Rights Commission censoring speech, or the fact that extreme multi-culti tolerance has led to reverse racism and the abuse of jewish school teachers in some Toronto schools dominated by Islamic students, is better discussed and understood on a radio format rather than an "I'm here to save the world" speech.

Edited June 16, 2009 by JerrySeinfeld