Keepitsimple Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 really? Wow, you know more than me about The Toronto Star's readership. Did you read the principles? Atkinson died in 1948 - Canada was a much different country then. The plain facts are that Conservative leaning people gag when they read many of the Star's political columns. You, on the other hand, appear to be a staunch, if not rabid Liberal supporter. That in itself exposes why you consider The Star to be "balanced". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Atkinson died in 1948 - Canada was a much different country then. The plain facts are that Conservative leaning people gag when they read many of the Star's political columns. You, on the other hand, appear to be a staunch, if not rabid Liberal supporter. That in itself exposes why you consider The Star to be "balanced". Dude, I read ALL Canadian papers in my quest for balance. And I recently was a card carrying member of another party but Ignatieff has won my heart. Can you guarantee that conservative-leaning people will gag when they read the Star? Maybe we could take out a bunch of them with a particularily liberal column... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 And the Atkinson Principles are timeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Dude, I read ALL Canadian papers in my quest for balance. And I recently was a card carrying member of another party but Ignatieff has won my heart.Can you guarantee that conservative-leaning people will gag when they read the Star? Maybe we could take out a bunch of them with a particularily liberal column... Hey....we're all Canadians....that's what makes this country great.....and that's why we often agree to disagree on various topics. Having said that, I can virtually guarantee that Conservative leaning Canadians gag when reading the political opinions of The Star. Even though I lean to the Center and Right, I have subscribed to The Star for many years.....I happen to like their Sports sectionh and I'm open minded enough that I actually WANT to see things through the lens of a Left leaning paper to give me the balance that I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Hey....we're all Canadians....that's what makes this country great.....and that's why we often agree to disagree on various topics. Having said that, I can virtually guarantee that Conservative leaning Canadians gag when reading the political opinions of The Star. Even though I lean to the Center and Right, I have subscribed to The Star for many years.....I happen to like their Sports sectionh and I'm open minded enough that I actually WANT to see things through the lens of a Left leaning paper to give me the balance that I need. Wow. If you were a sports fan, you would've opted for the Toronto Sun's sports coverage. It's the one area where the Toronto Star sucks... nice try though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Wow. If you were a sports fan, you would've opted for the Toronto Sun's sports coverage. It's the one area where the Toronto Star sucks... nice try though. I've always found the Star to be biased towards the Liberals. Why don't you start a "poll" thread? It would need to be a "two-parter", in that you should have to declare your own leanings and then your opinion of the Star. Actually, it might be even more interesting to include ALL the national papers! I suspect that the results about the Star might surprise you. Anyhow, as a "techie" I say don't jaw about it. Test it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Wow. If you were a sports fan, you would've opted for the Toronto Sun's sports coverage. It's the one area where the Toronto Star sucks... nice try though. You're right. I actually get the Sun AND the Star. I've tried the National Post but they don't really offer that much and I can read the columnists online. I subscribed to the G & M for 3 months recently but stopped it - they didn't have any cartoons for the wife. She likes the Sudoku in the Star and Sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 You're right. I actually get the Sun AND the Star. I've tried the National Post but they don't really offer that much and I can read the columnists online. I subscribed to the G & M for 3 months recently but stopped it - they didn't have any cartoons for the wife. She likes the Sudoku in the Star and Sun. Your wife is not cartoonless - she has you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 You titled this topic Ignatieff "IS" out of touch. In my humble opinion, you're an imbecile trying to manipulate a few recent headlines. Wow way to keep the discussion mature Radsickle. He's not manipulating anything. That Ignatieff might be out of touch with Canada is a genuine question MILLIONS are wondering right now. Like the CBC, the Star practices good journalism. As a long-time Star fan I'll tell you the paper is allied with its founding publisher, Joseph E. Atkinson. The CBC's ombudsman himself admitted to big problems with biases in its journalism within the last 8 months. The Star is FAR, FAR, FAR more Liberal leading than even the CBC. Out of ALL the large newspapers in the election last year, the STAR was the ONLY one that endorsed the Liberals, and even tried to make a case for Dion as a strong leader.... . The Atkinson principles. It is why the Star is so widely respected: I think you're WIDELY mistaking the amount of respect the Star has. It's WIDELY acknowledged by everyone as the most pro-Liberal newspaper in Canada. You can think what you want about its journalistic integrity but it's sorely lacking in balance. The National Post's bias towards the CPC can't even compare to the Star's love affair with the LPC. Headlines like, "Flahery wages VENDETTA against Ontario" are examples of the sensationalist language the Star uses to promote the Liberal cause. That's not journalistic integrity. That's Fox News style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Years ago I had lunch with the Star's ad director. He was asking the rhetorical question why they don't get the business advertising that the Globe and Mail and the then Financial Post get, given that they had strong numbers in the mangement/owners categories of readership. I answered that there were two reasons. 1) becuase it wasn't national 2) Because the Star doesn't have a business section. ...of course the Star does have a busines section, just that they tend not to cobver business stories that will be of use or provide relevant business info to the c-suite and upper management. They cover a business story in a way that would make it a good read for a high school teacher or a nurse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Wow, Star sucks eh? Wonder why so many read it instead of the other ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Wow way to keep the discussion mature Radsickle. He's not manipulating anything. That Ignatieff might be out of touch with Canada is a genuine question MILLIONS are wondering right now. The CBC's ombudsman himself admitted to big problems with biases in its journalism within the last 8 months. The Star is FAR, FAR, FAR more Liberal leading than even the CBC. Out of ALL the large newspapers in the election last year, the STAR was the ONLY one that endorsed the Liberals, and even tried to make a case for Dion as a strong leader.... . I think you're WIDELY mistaking the amount of respect the Star has. It's WIDELY acknowledged by everyone as the most pro-Liberal newspaper in Canada. You can think what you want about its journalistic integrity but it's sorely lacking in balance. The National Post's bias towards the CPC can't even compare to the Star's love affair with the LPC. Headlines like, "Flahery wages VENDETTA against Ontario" are examples of the sensationalist language the Star uses to promote the Liberal cause. That's not journalistic integrity. That's Fox News style. WOW. That's such a MATURE way to respond. Flaherty isn't liked in Ontario after raping it with Mike Harris. He knows this and wants to punish us for kicking him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The CBC's ombudsman himself admitted to big problems with biases in its journalism within the last 8 months. No, and I already told you that. The conclusion that he came to is even online to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) 1) becuase it wasn't national2) Because the Star doesn't have a business section. Well said, Morris.IME, The Toronto Star is a Toronto newspaper - written for people in Toronto. Since most people in Toronto vote Liberal, the Star is understandably Liberal. The Toronto Star's business section (at least online) is pointless. Why do they bother? At least La Presse (another local paper) reports Quebec business news unavailable elsewhere and has a good columnist (Claude Picher). ----- On a separate note, I don't think such local newspapers are viable in the future. In the case of Torstar, it is Harlequin Romance that is subsidizing the newspaper. La Presse is part of Desmarais and Gesco. Free give aways such as Metro and 24 will replace the tabloids and the popular broadsheets. AbitibiBowater declared bankruptcy because of decreased demand for newsprint paper in the US. IMV, a few high end, business oriented dailies (FT, WSJ) might survive in online subscription form. (I'm waiting for a Canadian edition of either.) ----- Last point. (And now I'm really indulging in a thread hijack.) While people argue about changing voting systems (STV, FPTP etc), we are losing a far more important feature of democracy - easily available information and questions to authority. People writing weblogs for fun don't have the time or means to investigate scandals like Adscam or Watergate. Edited May 12, 2009 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 On a separate note, I don't think such local newspapers are viable in the future. In the case of Torstar, it is Harlequin Romance that is subsidizing the newspaper. La Presse is part of Desmarais and Gesco. I believe the Star still is a hugely viable entity...to the point where they own a good chunk of Metro as well as the metroland community newspaper chain. Their profits are down but not to the point of alarm. Once the recession ends and real estate, auto and retail advertising resumes the numbers will be back to where they want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 That all BQ voters are separatists? You really think so? I not only think so I think most of those who vote Liberal are also separatist, and many of those who vote for the Tories and NDP. The majority of Francophone Quebecers are separatists, even if they don't term themselves so. Very few have any degree of affection or even interest in Canada beyond Quebec. As I said, if Quebec were to suddenly find itself awash in oil tomorrow they would vote en masse for separatism the next day. They only stay because they like spending our money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I not only think so I think most of those who vote Liberal are also separatist, and many of those who vote for the Tories and NDP. The majority of Francophone Quebecers are separatists, even if they don't term themselves so. Very few have any degree of affection or even interest in Canada beyond Quebec.As I said, if Quebec were to suddenly find itself awash in oil tomorrow they would vote en masse for separatism the next day. They only stay because they like spending our money. Not too dumb are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The majority of Francophone Quebecers are separatists, even if they don't term themselves so. Well that's a no winner for them even if you don't think so. A guy can wake up after dreaming of holidaying in the Rockies with his son when he comes back from his tour of duty in Afghanistan and to you he might be a seperatist.... I would say the seperatists who define themselves as such have rarely exceded 40%....and whether you choose to define someone as less canadian ....well that's your opinion and it means squat to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Well that's a no winner for them even if you don't think so. A guy can wake up after dreaming of holidaying in the Rockies with his son when he comes back from his tour of duty in Afghanistan and to you he might be a seperatist....I would say the seperatists who define themselves as such have rarely exceded 40%....and whether you choose to define someone as less canadian ....well that's your opinion and it means squat to them... One could also say the separatists who define themselves as such have rarely failed to exceed over 50% of the Francophone population in Quebec. Your figure, of course, is for the province as a whole, which includes the nearly unanimous "no" of Anglos and Alophones. After the last referendum the vast majority of those Francophones who had voted no admitted in surveys that the only reason they did so was fear of economic catastrophe if they separated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Chriton Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Wow, Star sucks eh? Wonder why so many read it instead of the other ones? I wonder the same thing about Fox. Apparently they've been having really good ratings since Obama was elected, at times beating CNN and MSNBC combined. We all know how fair and balanced Fox is right? But seriously, all news networks have biases, your ignorance is very transparent by claiming the Star isn't left leaning. Reference: http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/rating...ined_115179.asp Edited May 13, 2009 by Martin Chriton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 But seriously, all news networks have biases, you ignorance is very transparent by claiming the Star isn't left leaning. yo yo. You understanding of what me be sayin' is off, Jack. I never said the Star isn't left leaning, I merely state that it's a POPULAR view, and considered more honest journalism, in some parts of Canada, yo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Chriton Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I never said the Star isn't left leaning, I merely state that it's a POPULAR view, and considered more honest journalism, in some parts of Canada, So in your opinion to have honest journalism you need a left leaning bias and when you have a right leaning bias it's dishonest journalism. I'm glad we got that covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 So in your opinion to have honest journalism you need a left leaning bias and when you have a right leaning bias it's dishonest journalism.I'm glad we got that covered. That's your opinion, not mine. Media isn't as binary in my world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I'm surprised at the Star usually they go hand in hand with the CBC constantly apologizing for the Liberals. Nice to see them report the news for a change too. They'll be back to their frontpage news shots about sopme single mom soon enough I'm sure. There's never been a single mom story the Star didn't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I'm surprised at the Star usually they go hand in hand with the CBC constantly apologizing for the Liberals. Nice to see them report the news for a change too. They'll be back to their frontpage news shots about sopme single mom soon enough I'm sure. There's never been a single mom story the Star didn't like. Mr. Halton Hills wants us to think that anti-Liberal stories and opinions are "the news for a change." Mr. Halton Hills, Harper's calling.... Mr. Halton Hills, Fox Network is on line two..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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