Toews accuses Grits of bashing unilingual citizens

[Leafless]

The federal Liberals believe unilingual people are "less Canadian" than those who are bilingual, Treasury Board president Vic Toews said Tuesday.

The accusation was made in a testy exchange in parliamentary hearings about the Official Languages Act.

"I've never experienced this kind of insult toward the fact that I only speak one of the official languages, never in my life," Toews said in response to a question from Jean-Claude D'Amours, a bilingual Liberal MP from New Brunswick.

The Liberals suggested Toews was incompetent because he had trouble explaining his role in protecting official-language rights in the public service. But after being criticized for failing to know the answer to a question about language rights in the workplace, Toews said the remarks from the Liberals were a "disgrace."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Life/Toews+ac...7018/story.html

And this coming from a Liberal Francophone who is more than likely bilingual for the simple reason of 'personal self gain' in majority English Canada, which is perfectly logical.

Majority English speaking Canadians never had a need or a reason to become bilingual similar to Francophones for the simple reason nationalistic Quebec never did or could provide normal incentitives or never did open it's job market to English speaking Canadians bilingual or not.

I also would find it difficult to explain reponsibilities and actions relating to bilingualism in the federal government that is the root cause of conflict, confusion, animosity and discriminates against the majority language of the land and it's users.

[Borg]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Life/Toews+ac...7018/story.html

And this coming from a Liberal Francophone who is more than likely bilingual for the simple reason of 'personal self gain' in majority English Canada, which is perfectly logical.

Majority English speaking Canadians never had a need or a reason to become bilingual similar to Francophones for the simple reason nationalistic Quebec never did or could provide normal incentitives or never did open it's job market to English speaking Canadians bilingual or not.

I also would find it difficult to explain reponsibilities and actions relating to bilingualism in the federal government that is the root cause of conflict, confusion, animosity and discriminates against the majority language of the land and it's users.

Leafless - your prose is better than mine and therefore too nice - it needs some plain talk - so I thought I might add a few lines.

Such a delightful can of worms.

Become bi-lang or never work for Ottawa and seldom work in Ottawa - however do not ever put up an Anglo sign in kebec.

Anyone stating the obvious is called down by those who would tell them too bad - learn the other language or move along.

Truth is the language issue will never go away and Canada will continue to pander to an immoral law in kebec. And people who live anywhere but eastern Ontario, kebec and parts of New Brunswick can forget about getting a fair shake.

In the end it all comes down to that disgusting man trudeau - in his attempt to promote french he created an inequality that is ignored by those afraid to mention it for fear of being called a racist or bigot - all thanks to trudeau - loved by many in the east and despised by most in the west.

It is all such a delightful can of worms (I know I repeat myself)

Have a nice day

Borg

Edited May 6, 2009 by Borg

[waldo]

I also would find it difficult to explain responsibilities and actions relating to bilingualism in the federal government

well then - thankfully you are not the Harper Conservative Minister responsible for protecting Canada's 2 official languages... whether that has to do with your bilingual language skills... or not.

notwithstanding your and Minister Toews manufactured accusation/insult, the question remains whether or not the Ministry would be better served led by a Minister that speaks both official languages.

what was the accusation... where was the insult?

Liberal heritage critic Pablo Rodriguez said the opposition had asked Mr. Toews whether he believed a minister responsible for protecting official languages should be bilingual,

but did not at any point state that this should be a criterion

. Mr. Rodriguez suggested the minister fabricated the accusation as a distraction, because he could not explain his responsibilities and actions in government to defend bilingualism.

basically it reads like Minister Toews was embarrassed in not being able to explain his job/role... so he childishly lashes out.

next

[Wilber]

well then - thankfully you are not the Harper Conservative Minister responsible for protecting Canada's 2 official languages... whether that has to do with your bilingual language skills... or not.

notwithstanding your and Minister Toews manufactured accusation/insult, the question remains whether or not the Ministry would be better served led by a Minister that speaks both official languages.

what was the accusation... where was the insult?

Liberal heritage critic Pablo Rodriguez said the opposition had asked Mr. Toews whether he believed a minister responsible for protecting official languages should be bilingual,

but did not at any point state that this should be a criterion

. Mr. Rodriguez suggested the minister fabricated the accusation as a distraction, because he could not explain his responsibilities and actions in government to defend bilingualism.

basically it reads like Minister Toews was embarrassed in not being able to explain his job/role... so he childishly lashes out.

next

He is not responsible for protecting Canada's two languages. The comment was made that he was responsible for protecting language rights within the public service, the intimation being that a uniligual Canadian has no rights in the public service.

[Remiel]

What I would like to know: Why is it that when the MP in question is from New Brunswick (a bilingual province), that Leafless and Borg still feel that is it necessary to dis Quebec?

[ironstone]

Vic Toews or whoever holds that position is expected to strongly promote french throughout english Canada regardless of the cost or what the situation merits.As for the protection of english rights in Quebec,forget it.Bilingualism is about pandering to Quebec's continuous whining.

Two official languages,biculturalism,or are we multicultural.If politcal correctness dictates that two official languages are better than one,does the same logic not suggest that the more official languages we have the better off we are?How many official languages will this country have generations from now?English,French,Mandarin,Arabic etc?

Only in Canada

[waldo]

He is not responsible for protecting Canada's two languages. The comment was made that he was responsible for protecting language rights within the public service, the intimation being that a uniligual Canadian has no rights in the public service.

as the Treasury Board is responsible for management of the civil service and government operations, Conservative Minister Toews, as President of the Treasury Board, holds responsibilities for official bilingualism in the civil service… a responsibility to ensure that official bilingualism is maintained, promoted and not weakened within government operations and the civil service; i.e. is protected.

with the President of the Treasury Board holding that responsibility for protecting official bilingualism in the civil service and government operations, would it not be preferred… all things considered… that the Minister holding that position be personally bilingual in Canada’s 2 official languages?

a preference… but not a criterion – just as the Liberal member asserted

[Wilber]

a preference… but not a criterion – just as the Liberal member asserted

By using the fact Toews is unilingual as an issue, it is pretty obvious he was asserting the opposite.

[capricorn]

as the Treasury Board is responsible for management of the civil service and government operations, Conservative Minister Toews, as President of the Treasury Board, holds responsibilities for official bilingualism in the civil service… a responsibility to ensure that official bilingualism is maintained, promoted and not weakened within government operations and the civil service; i.e. is protected.

Actually, the Treasury Board Secretariat is more "hands on" in the management of official languages policies in the public service than the Treasury Board. Wayne Wouters has headed the Secretariat since 2004.

The Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat (TBS) is the administrative branch of the Treasury Board of Canada. The role of the secretariat is to support the Treasury Board as a committee of ministers, and to fulfill the statutory responsibilities of a central government agency. TBS provides advice to Treasury Board ministers in the management and administration of government.

TBS functions as the government's management board, oversees the operations of the federal government as a whole, and serves as the general manager and employer of the federal Public Service. TBS is also responsible for the comptrollership function of government, providing oversight of the financial management functions in departments and agencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasury_Board_Secretariat

The Treasury Board is a completely separate body from the TB Secretariat.

In the Government of Canada, the Treasury Board is the only statutory cabinet committee. It is in charge of the federal civil service, and for much of the operation of the Canadian government. Among its specific duties are negotiating labour agreements with the public service unions and serving as Comptroller General.

The Canadian cabinet is arranged into several committees, but all other ones are informal structures and frequently change. The Treasury Board is the only one created by law (Financial Administration Act), and is officially a committee of the privy council. Its role in government makes it far more powerful than most cabinet committees. It is also unique in having its committee chair, President of the Treasury Board, as a separate cabinet minister. The Treasury Board is supported by the Treasury Board Secretariat.

The committee is composed of five of the most powerful cabinet ministers, always including the Minister of Finance. Currently the other three ministers are Steven Fletcher, Minister of State (Democratic Reform); Diane Ablonczy, Minister of State (Small Business and Tourism); and Jay Hill, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons. The current President of the Treasury Board is Vic Toews, and the Vice-President is Rona Ambrose. A complete list of former Presidents of the Treasury Board is available on the website of the Treasury Board Secretariat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasury_Board

a preference… but not a criterion – just as the Liberal member asserted

Looking at the list of past Liberals who served as Treasury Board President, it's obvious not all were bilingual.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbs-sct/abu-ans/t...anciens-eng.asp

a preference… but not a criterion – just as the Liberal member asserted

It does not appear to be a criterion so what motivated Rodriguez to raise the matter? Maybe a reporter asked him to.

[Leafless]

By using the fact Toews is unilingual as an issue, it is pretty obvious he was asserting the opposite.

Quoted from 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms', item- 16(1) relating to 'Official Languages of Canada':

English and French are the official languages of Canada and have equal rights and privledges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and government of Canada.

[CANADIEN]

Let me check here... Vic Toews is the MINISTER , the MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, responsible for, among other things, implementing the laws of Canada regarding the use of French and English (the two main CANADIAN languages) in the Federal Civil Service,

Therefore, he should OF COURSE ve able to explain the role, mandate and policies of his Ministry. Ge does not need to be able to speak both languages to do that. In other words, as long as the rights of Canadians are tespected, I don't care ehich of our official languages he speaks or doesn't speak.

No, since we are all decent people who eschew bigotry, we would have the same reaction if Mr. Toews were an unilingual French-speaker, right?

[CANADIEN]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Life/Toews+ac...7018/story.html

I also would find it difficult to explain reponsibilities and actions relating to bilingualism in the federal government

WE have known that for months. :lol:

[waldo]

Actually, the Treasury Board Secretariat is more "hands on" in the management of official languages policies in the public service than the Treasury Board. Wayne Wouters has headed the Secretariat since 2004.

The Treasury Board is a completely separate body from the TB Secretariat.

sure... the Secretariat is a part of the Treasury Board

sure... the head of the Secretariat (Wouters) reports to the head of the Treasury Board (Toews)

so... the ultimate responsibility is held by the head of the Treasury Board, the President of the Treasury Board - Minister Toews

Looking at the list of past Liberals who served as Treasury Board President, it's obvious not all were bilingual.

looking at the list of past Treasury Board Presidents, at large, it's apparent some may not have been bilingual... which is consistent with what Rodriguez stated... that being bilingual is not a criterion. I've not heard/read anyone state the position should be held to a litmus test based on bilingualism... I've heard/read suggestion that bilingualism should be preferred given the nature of some of the responsibilities - preferred, but not a criterion for holding the position.

[August1991]

From the OP:

"I've never experienced this kind of insult toward the fact that I only speak one of the official languages, never in my life," Toews said in response to a question from Jean-Claude D'Amours, a bilingual Liberal MP from New Brunswick.

The question is whether Michael Ignatieff approved Jean-Claude D'Amours' question.

Is this the future direction of the federal Liberal Party, or will Ignatieff have to reign in the new religion PC extremists?

[Visionseeker]

If politcal correctness dictates that two official languages are better than one,does the same logic not suggest that the more official languages we have the better off we are?How many official languages will this country have generations from now?English,French,Mandarin,Arabic etc?

Only in Canada

Try the Swiss

Swiss languages

Edited May 7, 2009 by Visionseeker

[CANADIEN]

sure... the Secretariat is a part of the Treasury Board

sure... the head of the Secretariat (Wouters) reports to the head of the Treasury Board (Toews)

so... the ultimate responsibility is held by the head of the Treasury Board, the President of the Treasury Board - Minister Toews

looking at the list of past Treasury Board Presidents, at large, it's apparent some may not have been bilingual... which is consistent with what Rodriguez stated... that being bilingual is not a criterion. I've not heard/read anyone state the position should be held to a litmus test based on bilingualism... I've heard/read suggestion that bilingualism should be preferred given the nature of some of the responsibilities - preferred, but not a criterion for holding the position.

The nature of the position involves a lot more than the application of language policies within the civil service. What lanague(s) the Minister speaks/does not speak is pretty irrelevant.

[Argus]

sure... the Secretariat is a part of the Treasury Board

sure... the head of the Secretariat (Wouters) reports to the head of the Treasury Board (Toews)

so... the ultimate responsibility is held by the head of the Treasury Board, the President of the Treasury Board - Minister Toews

There are a lot of responsibilities which ultimately fall under the head of the Treasury Board. There is no way any minister can be intimately familiar with them all, and no way any minister can be knowledgeable on the substance of individual jobs and tasks. Nagging people about official languages is the responsibility of an office which falls under an office which comes under Toews.

I've heard/read suggestion that bilingualism should be preferred given the nature of some of the responsibilities - preferred, but not a criterion for holding the position.

It's funny, but you cannot even apply for a competition for the position of the most junior manager in the public service in Ottawa unless you are fluently bilingual. For that matter, you can't be a clerk or a messenger or a security guard or receptionist either. If we applied the same rule to parliament there wouldn't be more than a dozen or so people there who could keep their jobs.

[Argus]

What I would like to know: Why is it that when the MP in question is from New Brunswick (a bilingual province), that Leafless and Borg still feel that is it necessary to dis Quebec?

Well, the official languages policies, especially the ones applicable within the public service, were created by Quebecers for the benefit of Quebecers, then expanded by Quebecers for the benefit of Quebecers. We don't require every single manager in Ottawa all the way up to deputy minister rank be fluently bilingual in order to please New Brunswick.

[CANADIEN]

There are a lot of responsibilities which ultimately fall under the head of the Treasury Board. There is no way any minister can be intimately familiar with them all, and no way any minister can be knowledgeable on the substance of individual jobs and tasks. Nagging people about official languages is the responsibility of an office which falls under an office which comes under Toews.

We are not exactly talking about the policies on reporting shortages of toilet papers in government buildings. This is a policy the Minister is likely to be asked about in the House on a fairly regular basis. Letters from whiners are landing in his mailroom almost every day. He has to know about that policy.

Edited May 7, 2009 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Well, the official languages policies, especially the ones applicable within the public service, were created by Quebecers for the benefit of Quebecers, then expanded by Quebecers for the benefit of Quebecers. We don't require every single manager in Ottawa all the way up to deputy minister rank be fluently bilingual in order to please New Brunswick.

Thank you for reminding us that New Brunswick Acadians don't want to be able to speak to federal civil servants who speak their Canadian language. Nor do French-speaking Canadians in PEI, Ontario, Manitoba...

[Borg]

What I would like to know: Why is it that when the MP in question is from New Brunswick (a bilingual province), that Leafless and Borg still feel that is it necessary to dis Quebec?

Because if a franco in Saskatchewan was treated the same as an Anglo in kebec - there would be hell to pay - media and possible legal action aganist that treatment.

Kebec started this and it has permeated the country to placate them and their vote for the libs.

The Anglo has become a second class citizen in kebec and no one is prepared to speak up for fear of personal attack.

The franco now receives preferential treatment for fed jobs. And this has managed to find its way into many provincial positions in Ontario thanks to the libs.

They come out of their home province and demand we change to suit them - when they are not prepared to do the same in return.

The beat goes on.

I would be happy to see kebec and their ilk depart the country.

Best part of this? Despite the angst that will come from this post - there are a huge number that agree with me.

You might - no - many will indeed attack me personally for this - but in fact kebec started this and has no intention of ending this - so what should THEY do about it?

What should be happening is the folks who are on here should be attacking the xenophobes in kebec - never happen though.

When they change - I will change

Close their borders and keep them at home

After all fair treatment of the Anglo inside their borders is not on their agenda - and possibly never will be - yet preferential treatment is demanded by them when they come outside their borders.

Turn about is NOT fair play in the case of kebec.

Borg

Edited May 8, 2009 by Borg

[Borg]

Thank you for reminding us that New Brunswick Acadians don't want to be able to speak to federal civil servants who speak their Canadian language. Nor do French-speaking Canadians in PEI, Ontario, Manitoba...

All in a minority that speak English.

All costing us - minority rights have overstepped the remainder of the population.

In New Brunswick I am not harrassesd, fined or jailed for an English sign.

20 some odd percent now rule the remainder and that is the tail wagging the dog. In other words the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

Borg

Edited May 8, 2009 by Borg

[CANADIEN]

Because if a franco in Saskatchewan was treated the same as an Anglo in kebec - there would be hell to pay - media and possible legal action aganist that treatment.

Kebec started this and it has permeated the country to placate them and their vote for the libs.

The Anglo has become a second class citizen in kebec and no one is prepared to speak up for fear of personal attack.

The franco now receives preferential treatment for fed jobs. And this has managed to find its way into many provincial positions in Ontario thanks to the libs.

They come out of their home province and demand we change to suit them - when they are not prepared to do the same in return.

The beat goes on.

I would be happy to see kebec and their ilk depart the country.

Best part of this? Despite the angst that will come from this post - there are a huge number that agree with me.

You might - no - many will indeed attack me personally for this - but in fact kebec started this and has no intention of ending this - so what should THEY do about it?

What should be happening is the folks who are on here should be attacking the xenophobes in kebec - never happen though.

When they change - I will change

Close their borders and keep them at home

After all fair treatment of the Anglo inside their borders is not on their agenda - and possibly never will be - yet preferential treatment is demanded by them when they come outside their borders.

Turn about is NOT fair play in the case of kebec.

Borg

Nobody here speaks out for the Englsih-speaking minority in Quebec? Yiu obviosuly missed my past comments on Quebec's language legislations. Feel free to check them, but something tells me that will not be enough for you since I "fail" to use it to justify an attack on linguistic rights for all Canadians.

[WARNING: now is the part you will consider a personal attack, but in ase you did not figure that out, your attack on my rights as a Canadian is very personal to me]

Your comments about the "so called" preferential treatments of French-speaking CANADIANS outside Quebec, how we (French-speaking Canadians who were born, live, work and will die in provinces other than Quebec) have moved outside our borners (sorry to disappoint you, but Quebec is and will be part of Canada), your dismissal of linguistic rights with a curt "they speak English" (your next posting) makes your position very clear to me. I am a second-class Canadian, who has no place outside a small part of the country unless I renounce my rights and ny identity as a Canadian.

Too bad for you, but the days when people got harassed, fined, fired for their jobs for defending their rights to services in French and to recieve an education in French are not going back. And while I know it's more than time that the Quebec government starts using their brains, I will not suspend or renounce exercising my rights as a Canadian in the meantime. Nor am I stupid enough to believe for one second that you would accept equal rights if Quebec language laws were changed.

[WARNIING: Now is the personal attack. And yes, it's aimed at YOU, personnally. Do yourself a favour amd do not insult your own intelligence by arguing I am saying this because you are an English-speaker, or because you don't like Quebec language laws].

If you think for one second that your childish attempt at insulting Quebecers with your intentional misspelling ia fazing me or anybody else, you're wrong. Just confirms how laughable you are.

[Argus]

We are not exactly talking about the policies on reporting shortages of toilet papers in government building

No, of course not. That would be way more important than this.

[Argus]

Thank you for reminding us that New Brunswick Acadians don't want to be able to speak to federal civil servants who speak their Canadian language. Nor do French-speaking Canadians in PEI, Ontario, Manitoba...

Nobody cares enough about what New Brunswickers want to impliment a policy of this size and expense. It was done to appease the ever-whining, ever threatening mob of Quebecois. You think the policy would remain if Quebec separated?