M.Dancer Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 It's sweet, really, that venture capitalists have ponied up millions so that we can all keep tweeting. It's also more than a bit scary. Because more and more of us are increasingly addicted not only to Twitter, but to other services that lack workable business models. What happens if the "dealers" who feed our habits disappear? (It's been known to happen. Last week, for instance, Yahoo announced it was shutting down last century's hot social-networking-esque service, GeoCities, for which it paid $3.5 billion in 1999.) Every now and then some one comes into our offices with the next big thing. Usually a website that offers users lots of free content and they want us to market it for them...I have always been leary of internet advertising as a viable medium even when I helped launch the first web ad service in Canada well over 12 years ago. The trouble is advertising on a web page isn't wanted, it's annoying and it's easily avoided. Then comes viral advertising...great for the 1 out of the 10s of thousands who are succesful, a money loser for the rest....especially for the likes of Youtube, facebook et al who end up hosting the videos for nothing and make nothing on the bandwidth being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Every now and then some one comes into our offices with the next big thing.Your line reminded me of the story of Craig Newmark walking into the San Francisco Chronicle offices in the mid-1990s and offering them to link his list to their name. The Chronicle refused and the rest, as they say, is history.The trouble is advertising on a web page isn't wanted, it's annoying and it's easily avoided. Then comes viral advertising...great for the 1 out of the 10s of thousands who are succesful, a money loser for the rest....especially for the likes of Youtube, facebook et al who end up hosting the videos for nothing and make nothing on the bandwidth being used.Advertising on a webpage isn't wanted? Dancer, it depends.If the advertising provides useful information, then it's very wanted. Unlike newspapers or other mass media, the Internet offers the potential to tailor information to the user. IMHO, this aspect of the Internet is still in its infancy. ----- Anyway, bloggers on the Right claim that the MSM newspapers/TV are largely Left Wing and are destined for the dustbin simply because they are out of touch with the mainstream. The Internet, by providing a level playing field, has exposed the MSM for what it is. IMV, there is some truth to this. Newspaper and TV employees facing the Internet are like unionized postal workers facing email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_barilko Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 last century's hot social-networking-esque service, GeoCities I always thought Geocities was all about free clunky/wonky/wobbly websites, now that everything is so cheap there's no need for freebies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Now that the Canadian courts have said that they can access all of these social web sites and that there is no privacy - we are all creating a very detailed electronic crimminal record of ourselves - If the powers that be need to screw you - I am sure that ALL of us would be comprimised by a few clicks of the keyboard...and Twitter - that reminds me of a collective of insects that communicate with chemical scents..we are becoming a hive a bees - or even a nest of cochroaches..bad enough we spew our thoughts here on this forum - Imagine if there was a social or govnermental collapse and some dictator took over the nation - He could convict ALL of us...all on the slightest indiscreation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Your line reminded me of the story of Craig Newmark walking into the San Francisco Chronicle offices in the mid-1990s and offering them to link his list to their name. The Chronicle refused and the rest, as they say, is history. Could be....but how exactly does craiglist make money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_barilko Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Could be....but how exactly does craiglist make money? They charge $100 for apartment rental adds in New York and San Francisco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 They charge $100 for apartment rental adds in New York and San Francisco. They charge nothing for Toronto.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 They charge $100 for apartment rental adds in New York and San Francisco. Just checked....they charge $10 for brokers and nothing for owners in NYC https://post.craigslist.org/nyc/H?want=n&specApt=y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_barilko Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 So how exactly does Craigslist make money? By charging $25 for job postings in six of its largest U.S. markets and $75 for job listings in San Francisco and by assessing a $10 fee for brokered apartment listings in New York City I had the numbers wrong and forgot about the job listings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 So how exactly does Craigslist make money?By charging $25 for job postings in six of its largest U.S. markets and $75 for job listings in San Francisco and by assessing a $10 fee for brokered apartment listings in New York City I had the numbers wrong and forgot about the job listings I would want to see an annual report before I invested. Newspapers, before the intraweb used to count on the classifieds as a cash cow. Where as a page of advertisng netted X (at a 55% ad/edit ratio), classified netted twice that amount..(at a 100% ad ratio). The page counts have dropped from the 1980s when the star ran two sections to handful of pages. A display career ad in the G&M could cost $2000. Never the less, charging a pitance may not pay the bills...as Facebook is finding out that the online ads don't always mean inline revenue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Numbers don't lie, Mo. My firm was worried about the downturn, until our two biggest clients told us they were increasing their online budgets, and dropping a TV commercial or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Numbers don't lie, Mo.My firm was worried about the downturn, until our two biggest clients told us they were increasing their online budgets, and dropping a TV commercial or two. Indeed, the numbers don't add up. Unless your clients are porn providers they are probably making a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Indeed, the numbers don't add up.Unless your clients are porn providers they are probably making a mistake. Do you have hard facts to back that up, or do you base it on your own personal experience? Personally, I've always doubted how effective internet advertising is. I notice the ads, but don't generally pay much attention. But (and here's the thing) I've always had the same doubts about TV ads. Internet banner ads I tend to just ignore. TV ads, I tend to hit the mute (or Fast-Forward if I'm watching a recording...) or go to the washroom or get a drink or play with my lovable pet. I seldom even look at newspapers anymore, let alone newspaper advertising... I might leaf through a newspaper if I'm interested in seeing where real-estate prices are at or seeing if there's a used car that catches my fancy. Otherwise, newpaper ads are packing-material. Advertising has never convinced me to go out and buy something outright. However, advertisements (TV and internet) have spurred my interest in products. I have on occassion seen TV ads for products that sound interesting and gone on the internet to find out more about them. "does that actually work? does it actually do that?" When internet advertisements attract my interest, it is that much more convenient for me to get the information. I can click on the ad or just fire up Google, and immediately get the information; with TV ads I often forget all about the product that I'd been interested in by the time I'm next at my computer. Another area where internet ads beat other forms of advertising is filling immediate wants. If a pop-up informs me that an online retailer has a special on doodads, and I am already in the market for a doodad, I may well click on the ad and see if the sale price is a good deal. I clicked on such an ad recently, but found that the advertiser's price did not beat the price of the online retailer I usually buy from. And that's another area where internet advertising beats conventional advertising. I already shop online for certain things where my local retailers simply don't have adequate selection. I'm always interested in finding new retailers that carry the sorts of things I'm looking for. I have 3 favorite online retailers for computer supplies that I often look at, but I'd be interested in finding a 4th. If the right banner ad catches my eye, they could be in my bookmarks list within a few seconds. TV ads have also lost my business with tasteless or insulting ads. (I have not bought Mott's products since an ad campaign of a few years ago that had blondes injuring their eyes with celery stalks while drinking Caesars, for instance.) I can't think of an internet ad that has cost me business for a product I previously supported. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Do you have hard facts to back that up, or do you base it on your own personal experience? From the craigslist inerview and from personal experience being involved from an advertising perspective with some of Canada's busiest sites. Traffic may gaurentee impressions but they don't gaurentee recall and even less, clickthroughs. I believe TV and radio top recall and the net comes in last. I was at a meeting with the TMX a few month ago and they brought up that they earn a nice peice of change from advertising on TSX.com. Someone said, "I didn't know you even had ads" The person uses the site almost weekly... That being said, big traffic sites like Globe.com, CBC etc etc..earn good revenue from ads on the sites but they aren't about to close up the printing presses...they don't earn enough to warrent that. Personally, I've always doubted how effective internet advertising is. I notice the ads, but don't generally pay much attention. But (and here's the thing) I've always had the same doubts about TV ads. I believe the effectiveness is less than direct mail. Might cost less, or more... Internet banner ads I tend to just ignore. Most do TV ads, I tend to hit the mute (or Fast-Forward if I'm watching a recording...) or go to the washroom or get a drink or play with my lovable pet. I like a good TV ad the first few times.... I seldom even look at newspapers anymore, let alone newspaper advertising... I might leaf through a newspaper if I'm interested in seeing where real-estate prices are at or seeing if there's a used car that catches my fancy. Otherwise, newpaper ads are packing-material. Advertising has never convinced me to go out and buy something outright. However, advertisements (TV and internet) have spurred my interest in products. I have on occassion seen TV ads for products that sound interesting and gone on the internet to find out more about them. "does that actually work? does it actually do that?" When internet advertisements attract my interest, it is that much more convenient for me to get the information. I can click on the ad or just fire up Google, and immediately get the information; with TV ads I often forget all about the product that I'd been interested in by the time I'm next at my computer. Another area where internet ads beat other forms of advertising is filling immediate wants. If a pop-up informs me that an online retailer has a special on doodads, and I am already in the market for a doodad, I may well click on the ad and see if the sale price is a good deal. I clicked on such an ad recently, but found that the advertiser's price did not beat the price of the online retailer I usually buy from. And that's another area where internet advertising beats conventional advertising. I already shop online for certain things where my local retailers simply don't have adequate selection. I'm always interested in finding new retailers that carry the sorts of things I'm looking for. I have 3 favorite online retailers for computer supplies that I often look at, but I'd be interested in finding a 4th. If the right banner ad catches my eye, they could be in my bookmarks list within a few seconds. TV ads have also lost my business with tasteless or insulting ads. (I have not bought Mott's products since an ad campaign of a few years ago that had blondes injuring their eyes with celery stalks while drinking Caesars, for instance.) I can't think of an internet ad that has cost me business for a product I previously supported. -k There is a truism of advertising. 99% of us don't notice ads unless we are in the market for something. I never see pop ups...I block them I use the product sites to find out more when I want more info....but I got there not through as internet ad.... What was wrong with the Motts ad....? For blonds it was a real and present danger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 There are many things one can do to prevent much of the advertising when online. We don't see pop-ups as much anymore for the simple fact that most browsers have a blocker in place to prevent the unwanted pop-ups. And they are all ad related. For Firefox, you can get an 'ad blocker' or disable Java and Flash to prevent ads using those formats from showing up on your sceen. I had never really supported things like Myspace, Facebook or Twitter. Partly because I really don't care to have 100 'friends' in my list that I really don't know or ever met in meatspace. However, selling ad space on some of these sites are cash cows simply because of the exposure you get when on these sites. And if you are not willing to pay for access to something like Facebook or Myspace .. then you are going to deal with the ads, or go somewhere else. I know many like to say they will pay for it when they start charging. But I think trends show, that once a popular free site becomes a fee site. You will see a drastic drop in clients/users. Kimmy Personally, I've always doubted how effective internet advertising is. I notice the ads, but don't generally pay much attention. But (and here's the thing) I've always had the same doubts about TV ads. The ads should be site content related. I frequent Shacknews.com, a gaming site. All their ads are gaming, console, and PC related, relevant to the content of the site (the forums or 'latest chatty' however are all over the place!!!) I must admit though that the owners of Shacknews are strict when it comes to advertising on their site. They have a NO SOUND IN THE AD policy which is a great thing and keeps me coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 From the craigslist inerview and from personal experience being involved from an advertising perspective with some of Canada's busiest sites. Traffic may gaurentee impressions but they don't gaurentee recall and even less, clickthroughs. I believe TV and radio top recall and the net comes in last.I was at a meeting with the TMX a few month ago and they brought up that they earn a nice peice of change from advertising on TSX.com. Someone said, "I didn't know you even had ads" The person uses the site almost weekly... That being said, big traffic sites like Globe.com, CBC etc etc..earn good revenue from ads on the sites but they aren't about to close up the printing presses...they don't earn enough to warrent that. I think most of the skepticism about the effectiveness of internet advertising applies equally to traditional forms. "it's easy to just ignore it." "most people don't actually buy stuff because of ads." Dealing with large enough numbers makes what the "average" person does unimportant. It would be my expectation that the "recall" factor would be balanced by the immediacy of the internet. Someone watching a TV ad is on their couch at home; he's not doing anything until his hockey game is over. Someone reading an internet ad is just a few clicks from your online store. What was wrong with the Motts ad....? For blonds it was a real and present danger Their tag-line was (as I recall) "Not for everyone." If some advertiser is suggesting that their product isn't for me, I'm only too happy to take their word for it. However, I was annoyed enough by the commercial that I wrote to them. I suggested that seizing on their "Not for everyone" theme, they could do a commercial that had skid row hobos lying in gutters after ingesting Motts-and-Lysol cocktails. I still have their reply in my mailbox: Thank you for contacting us about our current Clamato television commercials. Consumer comments and inquiries are always appreciated because they give us valuable feedback about our brands and their advertising campaigns. Your comments will be forwarded to our Marketing and Advertising departments and will be used when evaluating future campaigns. You are our valued customer and we appreciate you taking the time to advise us of your opinion. Sincerely, Consumer Relations The hobos ad never aired... perhaps they were concerned I'd sue them for stealing my awesome idea. I certainly didn't feel like a valued customer, either. Anyway, that was 5 years ago and I haven't given Mott's a cent since; I can buy a generic brand that doesn't cost an extra $1.50 per bottle, or use that money to purchase ads to insult me. Mott's and their advertising people can go <<Viagra Intermission>> themselves. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Is facebook facing a cash crunch? The $200-million (U.S.) investment provides the Silicon Valley darling with an injection of cash that will be used to help it build for the future. But it's also raising questions about the long-term financial health of Facebook and whether one of the world's most popular websites, with more than 200 million members, is capable of crafting a lasting business model that will turn it into the next Google or Yahoo. The deal values Facebook at $10-billion, $5-billion less than what the site was reportedly worth in October, 2007, when Microsoft Corp. snatched up a 1.6-per-cent stake in the company for $240-million. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/techno...article1154160/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Is facebook facing a cash crunch?http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/techno...article1154160/ If some of the advertising offered the right coupons, people's interest in Internet advertising would grow exponentially. There are many people who buy newspapers for their coupons. Once people are in the (bricks and mortar) stores they buy un-couponed merchandise. That has to be the business model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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