Arar's wife wins Ottawa NDP nomination

[maplesyrup]

The wife of a Canadian held in a Syrian prison for close to a year has won the New Democratic Party nomination for an Ottawa riding.

 

Monia Mazigh will run for the NDP in the next federal election in the riding of Ottawa South. She defeated Jeannie Page for the nomination, and will face David McGuinty, the brother of Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty in the riding.

"The Liberals and Conservatives must be ready for us," said Mazigh, who vowed to work to improve the lives of immigrants in Canada.

Party leader Jack Layton, who attended the nomination, said Mazigh will bring persistence and drive to the party.

Article

Can Monia win?

And if she wins, what does it signify?

[KrustyKidd]

May as well vote for her. She's for immigrants, I only live here. Is there a place I can go where I can get some support?

[maplesyrup]

May as well vote for her.  She's for immigrants, I only live here.  Is there a place I can go where I can get some support?

Feeling sorry for ourselves this evening, are we?

I am glad we have such a great country so many people want to join us.

Even Americans:

Article

[Sully]

Wow anyone can be in politics these days eh!!

Well I guess if there is one party that would be able to capitalize on this woman, its the NDP. I mean it must be good for the NDP to be able to grandstand her and buy the immigrant vote. I do not know why she is vowing to fight for immigrants rights. I mean do immigrants have less rights than the rest of us or maybe more than the rest of us. If you are moving to Canada does it not signify that you are moving here for the improvement to your life.

[August1991]

I am glad we have such a great country so many people want to join us.

MapleSyrup, we don't.

Almost one-third of our immigrants go to the States. In effect, our complex immigration system is a selection system (or a back door) for US immigration.

Statcan Immigration Numbers

[maplesyrup]

If that is true maybe it is because of the way we treat them,Actually most people would love to be in Canada including a lot of Americans.

Arar family sues government for $400M

Maher Arar and his family are suing the Canadian government for $400-million, according to the National Post.

The suit claims authorities breached Arar's charter rights and were guilty of racism when they pursued an investigation into his alleged extremist links in 2002.

Maher Arar

The court filing contains several allegations, including negligence, negligent investigation, defamation, false imprisonment, assault and abuse of public office.

Other parties named in the suit include CSIS, the RCMP and Foreign Affairs department officials in Syria and in New York.

[Black Dog]

Almost one-third of our immigrants go to the States. In effect, our complex immigration system is a selection system (or a back door) for US immigration.

Uh..your numbers don't back you up. According to them, we're still gaining more than we're losing. Can you substaniate your claim?

I do not know why she is vowing to fight for immigrants rights. 

Because the Arar's are immigrants? Have you heard of her husband, Maher Arar?

On a stopover in New York as he was returning to Canada from a vacation in Tunisia in September 2002, U.S. officials detained Arar, claiming he has links to al-Qaeda, and deported him to Syria, even though he was carrying a Canadian passport.

When Arar returned to Canada more than a year later, he said he had been tortured during his incarceration and accused American officials of sending him to Syria knowing that they practise torture.

-background CBC web site

[d4dev]

Until now, every political party has tried to win over immigrant votes (since there are so many of them), by promising them equal access to Canadian jobs, which gives them a chance to improve their lives. I assume all of us have heard of doctors working in Tim Horton's and immigrants having doctorates, that are driving taxis. It is this frustration with the Canadian government that is coming to the fore.

Not just that, but when the government starts discriminating between it's own citizens by doling out second-class treatment to immigrants is what makes one's blood boil. All the people that are coming here are qualified professionals. Why should they be receiving this second-class treatment?

[Sully]

d4dev says:

Not just that, but when the government starts discriminating between it's own citizens by doling out second-class treatment to immigrants is what makes one's blood boil. All the people that are coming here are qualified professionals. Why should they be receiving this second-class treatment?

What second class treatment are you talking about please give specifics. I think that is a load. People who move here are moving here for the "CHANCE", not the guarantee of a better life. I can assure you that these people are not promised great jobs over Canadian citizens as soon as they get here. Just like Canadians who are born here and have higher degrees, that does not ensure you that you will have a job and nor should it. We are all in this together. I do not see any second class treatment by the government at all. I mean we can always make it the case something is wrong when things do not go a certain way, but thats the way things are today. Using the race card is just another excuse for a group who does not like to face the reality of the situation.

[August1991]

Uh..your numbers don't back you up. According to them, we're still gaining more than we're losing. Can you substaniate your claim?

True, we have a net gain.

But emigration is about one-third of immigration (which, I believe, is much higher than Australia and the US). I suspect many of the emigrants are recent immigrants and Canada, in effect, offers a way to immigrate to the US.

All the people that are coming here are qualified professionals. Why should they be receiving this second-class treatment?

It is NOT the government that is practicing this form of discrimination. It is the professional associations and unions that make it difficult for foreigners to become members and forbid employers from hiring non-members.

d4d, you are advocating the "right to work" in the sense that you believe employers should be free to hire whoever they feel is competent. I agree.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Well, I know that terrorists tend to like to immigrate here, Time magazine did a report on Canada's lax immigration rules, and Time's a center left magazine. Immigrants in Canada get alot more rights than people think.

Immigrants who commit serious crimes are rarely deported, and an immigrant in Calgary tried to kill a police constable.

I think this is how the immigrant system should work

- No criminal activity in the first ten years, any criminal activity and your deported

- Cannot be supported on welfare for five years

- Immigrants with doctorates should be allowed to work in their chosen profession

- Any involvement in terrorist activities will result in deportation

- Any form of treason, should be punishable by deportation

[d4dev]

What second class treatment are you talking about please give specifics.

What specifics do you want? Is it hard to understand that doctors, engineers, architects etc are doing labour jobs here? Haven't you met one or read about one?

People who move here are moving here for the "CHANCE", not the guarantee of a better life.

That's another load of bullcrap. People that immigrate here are very well settled in their former countries (do you have any doubt about the quality of life of a doctor or an engineer in another country?). They migrate here because they think that since Canada is a developed country, their skills can be put to good use and they would be able to improve their standard of living further. It's obvious that if people knew when they applied for immigration to Canada, that they would be working as sweepers and waiters here, they would never come.

It is the responsibility of the government of Canada to ensure that these immigrants are given a fair chance at working in their own fields of expertise.

Just like Canadians who are born here and have higher degrees, that does not ensure you that you will have a job and nor should it. We are all in this together.

Have you compared the percentage of immigrants doing labour jobs and the perentage of fresh grads from Canadian institutes doing the same? Most (if not all) immigrants never get a chance to work in their fields of expertise after coming to Canada. Is the situation the same for Canadian educated grads?

Using the race card is just another excuse for a group who does not like to face the reality of the situation.

What reality of the situation? Are you supporting this discrimination against immigrants? How would you feel if you were a first class engineer, and after you decided to immigrate to the US, you had to sweep floors or work in McDonalds to earn a living?

[d4dev]

It is NOT the government that is practicing this form of discrimination. It is the professional associations and unions that make it difficult for foreigners to become members and forbid employers from hiring non-members.

d4d, you are advocating the "right to work" in the sense that you believe employers should be free to hire whoever they feel is competent. I agree.

Why doesn't the government make any effort then to make sure that immigrants are assimilated easily into Canadian society? It's just a blame game. No one wants to take responsiblity for this.

And FYI, even after going through the process of getting 'Canadian certified', Canadian private and even government sectors prefer to hire people with Canadian education instead of these foreign professionals. On one hand, we proclaim that we are facing shortage of skilled professionals and on the other, we don't mind letting the skills of these foreign trained pofessionals rot.

[d4dev]

Well, I know that terrorists tend to like to immigrate here, Time magazine did a report on Canada's lax immigration rules, and Time's a center left magazine. Immigrants in Canada get alot more rights than people think.

Immigrants who commit serious crimes are rarely deported, and an immigrant in Calgary tried to kill a police constable.

I think this is how the immigrant system should work

- No criminal activity in the first ten years, any criminal activity and your deported

- Cannot be supported on welfare for five years

- Immigrants with doctorates should be allowed to work in their chosen profession

- Any involvement in terrorist activities will result in deportation

- Any form of treason, should be punishable by deportation

What BS is this? We all know that Canada is a land of immigrants. If your rule were to be applied, even ordinary Canadian criminals would have to be deported back to England and France.

[Sully]

What specifics do you want? Is it hard to understand that doctors, engineers, architects etc are doing labour jobs here? Haven't you met one or read about one?

No I do not know of any immigrants who are suffering from that problem, but I do know many Canadians who are. So even mentioning second class treatment is a load. There can be many reasons for not being employed at the job we all want. We are all susceptible to economic conditions and thus supply and demand dictate how many jobs that are available. That being said low demand further raises the bar for people applying to those jobs. The company can demand more and more from the applicants which is in their rights, hell if I own a business I want the best people working for me.

That's another load of bullcrap. People that immigrate here are very well settled in their former countries (do you have any doubt about the quality of life of a doctor or an engineer in another country?). They migrate here because they think that since Canada is a developed country, their skills can be put to good use and they would be able to improve their standard of living further. It's obvious that if people knew when they applied for immigration to Canada, that they would be working as sweepers and waiters here, they would never come.

It is the responsibility of the government of Canada to ensure that these immigrants are given a fair chance at working in their own fields of expertise.

Yes people move here for the "CHANCE" of a better living, no where can anyone "GUARANTEE" that. Immigrants are not guaranteed a job with security for life, wonderful pensions, a high paying job etc.. Who are you kidding. Secondly if their lives were as suitable to their needs as you make it out to be, then its not our fault they gave that up to come here, do not lay the blame on Canada. Immigrants like the rest of people of Canada have to work at finding jobs too, they are no more special than the rest of us in the job pool.

You also state that people migrate here because they "THINK" not because they actually know, once again this is not Canada letting anyone down. And of course people would not move here if it would reduce your standard of living, but whats your point?

And I hope that when you state that it is the responsibility of Canada to ensure a fair playing field, that assurance which immigrants already have like the rest of us, NO GUARANTEES, would not cost a cent. I do not want my tax dollars funding a program to benefit someone who has not yet contributed to this country. And also it will be a program that I myself, would not be able to take advantage of. Seems to me like that would make me a second class citizen, now wouldn't it.

Have you compared the percentage of immigrants doing labour jobs and the perentage of fresh grads from Canadian institutes doing the same? Most (if not all) immigrants never get a chance to work in their fields of expertise after coming to Canada. Is the situation the same for Canadian educated grads?

Whats to comapre, this is an apples and oranges comparison. I am quite sure that Canadian grads, with Canadian degrees, meeting Canadian Standards are more likely to get Canadian jobs, makes sense to me, there is nothing tricky about that one. These grads should get those jobs with high criteria that need to be met. If this somehow seems unfair to you, too bad, cause this is the real world. Lets hope that standards are not lowered to accomadate immigrant standards. If immigrants meet these standards then thats great they will get a job like they should. I think immigrants can fill highly qualified positions if there are no Canadians to fill them.

As for you stating most if not all immigrants never get a chance to work in their fields of expertise, thats bullcrap, not every immigrant that moves here would be a great addition to Canada, not every immigrants holds a Doctorate. Lets make that clear.

What reality of the situation? Are you supporting this discrimination against immigrants? How would you feel if you were a first class engineer, and after you decided to immigrate to the US, you had to sweep floors or work in McDonalds to earn a living?

You might not want to read this so turn away, I am going to open your eyes to the real business world. If you are still reading you had your chance. There are no guarantees in life, I know it sucks. You will not always get the job, horrible isn't it. Does not matter what ethnic group or your country of origin, you will still have to meet certain standards before getting a job. The days of being able to walk into a business and walk out with a job are over, along with job security for life. That is the reality that Canadians and IMMIGRANTS will face.

As for the support of discrimination, I actually need you to explain logically what that discrimination is before I can say that I support it. Seems like you are dying to call me a racist or bigot aren't ya.

As for your last point this is the easiet one to answer. How would I feel eh? Well let me say this just because I feel that I am "A FIRST CLASS ENGINEER" doesn't make me one, I would love to think that I am just the most amazing thing at my position. Sadly the difference between the way we perceive ourselves and the way the world does is vastly different.

Secondly this is Canada who cares about someone moving to the US.

Lastly Does anyone know when you work at Rotten Ronnies, do you get a staff discount? Cause thats gotta count for something.

[d4dev]

No I do not know of any immigrants who are suffering from that problem, but I do know many Canadians who are. So even mentioning second class treatment is a load. There can be many reasons for not being employed at the job we all want. We are all susceptible to economic conditions and thus supply and demand dictate how many jobs that are available. That being said low demand further raises the bar for people applying to those jobs. The company can demand more and more from the applicants which is in their rights, hell if I own a business I want the best people working for me.

How do you define 'best people'? And how the hell do you know that immigrants are not among the best people? Do you even know the selection criteria employed by the Canadian government when they allow immigrants to come in? Any Tom, Dick and Harry does not just come in.

The foreign professionals that come in are very highly trained and have many years of experience. If you want to employ them in labour jobs after they come here, why market Canada abroad at all?

Yes people move here for the "CHANCE" of a better living, no where can anyone "GUARANTEE" that.

Wow! How vague is THAT! No one is asking anyone to guarantee anything. The only thing that is being asked is that people be given a CHANCE to work in their own fields. Even that CHANCE is not being given.

Immigrants are not guaranteed a job with security for life, wonderful pensions, a high paying job etc.. Who are you kidding.

That's obvious. What you don't understand is that if we are talking about chances, there has to be a reasonable chance that an immigrant gets a job in his own field, just as there is a chance that he would not work in his own field. However, that resonable chance of him getting work in his own field is non-existent.

Read this:

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/89-6...-XIE/labour.htm

Four out of 10 found work six months after arrival

Do you know how this 4/10 figure is arrived at? Employment includes any job, regardless of your previous qualifications and experience. So if an engineer comes to Canada and after seeing the situation here, decides to work in a labour job just to survive, even that is counted as a job.

Over half of immigrants did not work in the same field after immigration

So.... how's that? A 50 percent chance of having to work as a sweeper?

Lack of Canadian experience and transferability of foreign credentials were the most critical hurdles to employment

Of the 116,700 newcomers who looked for work, 70% reported at least one problem in the process. The most common problem cited by immigrants who encountered barriers when looking for employment was the lack of Canadian job experience. This was identified by 26% of the new immigrants.

An almost equal proportion (24%) cited transferability of foreign qualifications or experience as the most critical obstacle.

This is what I was talking about. What is the government doing? This immigration thing is not just a one way process. IMMIGRANTS ARE ALLOWED COME TO CANADA PRECISELY BECAUSE CANADA NEEDS THEM. Its' not some social work that the government is carrying on. IF IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS ARE NOT UTILISED, THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY LOSERS.

You also state that people migrate here because they "THINK" not because they actually know, once again this is not Canada letting anyone down.

This is one part that I agree with you a bit. However, it is not possible for someone sitting in China to actually 'know' the situation in Canada. It is not possible financially for everyone to just pick up their baggage, and leave for Canada on a visitor's visa to find out the truth for themselves.

I do not want my tax dollars funding a program to benefit someone who has not yet contributed to this country. And also it will be a program that I myself, would not be able to take advantage of. Seems to me like that would make me a second class citizen, now wouldn't it. 

Another load of crap. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT REFUGEES, I'M TALKING ABOUT LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. THEY PAY TAXES JUST AS YOU DO.

These grads should get those jobs with high criteria that need to be met.

What crap are you talking? IF FOREIGN TRAINED IMMIGRANTS WEREN'T AS GOOD (ACTUALLY THEY ARE FAR BETTER) THAN CANADIAN GRADS, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE PASSED THE SELECTION CRITERIA OF THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT?

Unless you believe that the government is bringing in trash from all over the world.

[d4dev]

Read this:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=968350116795

In spite of all he's been through, Muhammad Usman Ali thinks Canada is a beautiful country.

The Pakistani lawyer wishes he'd never come here. He'll warn other professionals in his homeland not to expect a warm welcome in Canada. He'll return to Peshawar this summer, chastened and hurt.

In October of 2003, with their money running out, Ali took a job as a loader in a grocery warehouse. The pay was $10 an hour. His shift began at midnight and ended whenever the supervisor sent him home.

At the warehouse, he met eight other South Asian professionals — five civil engineers, a mechanical engineer, a computer programmer and an agricultural scientist — whose plights were similar to his. All had lost everything in their quest for a better future.

And this:

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/.../BNStory/Front/

the economic progress of recent immigrants is failing to keep pace with expectations, theirs and ours. In fact, newcomers are doing worse in this land of opportunity than immigrants of previous decades.

The public, too, is becoming increasingly aware that poverty rates among recent immigrants is deplorably high. The 2001 census shows that, nationally, 35 per cent of immigrants who arrived in the 1990s live below Statistics Canada's low-income cut-off, which is commonly interpreted as a type of poverty line. In some places the rate is much higher. In Montreal, more than 47 per cent of recent immigrants live below the cut-off; in Vancouver, the rate is more than 40 per cent. These are overall numbers for each city. They would be far more dramatic in selected neighbourhoods.

And this:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=968350116795

For the past decade, we've done a poor job of integrating foreign-trained workers into our job market. We've closed our eyes to rising poverty levels among new immigrants. We've jacked up the entry qualifications to get into Canada, but denied professionals from other lands the chance to use their skills.

The problem is not that Ottawa is letting in too many of the world's needy and dispossessed, he says. Today's immigrants are better educated and more highly skilled than any previous generation. Yet Canadian employers are reluctant to hire them. This suggests to him that there's something wrong with the government's selection criteria.

I dont believe how easily we brush off this situation by casting doubt on immigrants' qualifications and competitiveness without any basis whatsoever.

[vroom]

So, someone has a PHD coming from a third world country where medicine is practiced very different than here... and you want to let them do whatever it is they do here?

Okay, you may believe their knowledge is current and real, but who has the ability to verify that the degree program in question is comparable to those here?

This isn't cut and dried. Having a piece of paper or claiming to have a piece of paper does not actually confer any legitimate or transferable capabilites.

However, that being said, I would be in favour of having a method of transferring previous knowledge into an equivalent Canadian certification quickly and easily. No use penalizing people when it isn't needed. Maybe the first step is a verbal exam by a panel of locally qualified experts?

Finally, if a doctor or engineer is coming to Canada (why?), then they should be aware of our rules and be ready to abide by them when they get here. Who isn't telling them about the reality of the situation before they get here?

[Alliance Fanatic]

What BS is this? We all know that Canada is a land of immigrants. If your rule were to be applied, even ordinary Canadian criminals would have to be deported back to England and France. - ddev

So Ddev you obviously believe that Canada should give asylum to those who sells drugs, bring in prostitution. Attention, terrorists, pimps, drug dealers, criminal gangs, and murderers, Canada is now open for business, bring all of the crime and heartache into Canada without fear of getting deported.

I think that if people move to this country they have to earn the right to become a Canadian, the left wingers on this forum think that Canadian citizenship is a right to any person who comes to this country. If you want to live in Canada, abide by our rules, and work, if not then get out.

[d4dev]

So, someone has a PHD coming from a third world country where medicine is practiced very different than here... and you want to let them do whatever it is they do here?

Okay, you may believe their knowledge is current and real, but who has the ability to verify that the degree program in question is comparable to those here?

All that is taken care of the during the selection process of foreign candidates who apply for immigration. Immigration to Canada is a long drawn out process, which takes around 3-4 years to complete. In that time interval, background checks are conducted on the applicant, his qualifications are verified, tallied with Canadian qualifications and only then is he granted permanent resident status.

Finally, if a doctor or engineer is coming to Canada (why?), then they should be aware of our rules and be ready to abide by them when they get here.  Who isn't telling them about the reality of the situation before they get here?

The question is not about whose NOT telling them, it about who's going to tell them. It's very easy to be misinformed or uninformed about something. As I said earlier, it's not possible to find out the situation for yourself by actually coming to Canada.

[d4dev]

So Ddev you obviously believe that Canada should give asylum to those who sells drugs, bring in prostitution. Attention, terrorists, pimps, drug dealers, criminal gangs, and murderers, Canada is now open for business, bring all of the crime and heartache into Canada without fear of getting deported.

I think that if people move to this country they have to earn the right to become a Canadian, the left wingers on this forum think that Canadian citizenship is a right to any person who comes to this country. If you want to live in Canada, abide by our rules, and work, if not then get out.

WTF is this? Have you missed what I've repeated over and over in my last 4/5 posts? which immigrants are you talking about? There are two kinds of immigrants.

1) Legal.

2) Illegal.

Illegal immigrants do the things that you mentioned above.

Legal immigrants are HIGHLY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS, they don't indulge in drugs or terrorism. And this topic is about legal immigrants, not illegal ones.

And btw, you didn't answer my ealier question. Just as immigrants (illegal ones) would indulge in drug trafficking, even Canadian would. Then why would you deport only those immigrants, and not the Canadians?

Why these double standards?

[Sully]

How do you define 'best people'? And how the hell do you know that immigrants are not among the best people? Do you even know the selection criteria employed by the Canadian government when they allow immigrants to come in? Any Tom, Dick and Harry does not just come in.

The foreign professionals that come in are very highly trained and have many years of experience. If you want to employ them in labour jobs after they come here, why market Canada abroad at all?

I personally do not "define" anything, actually the businesses define what it is they are looking for in an employee. I never stated that immigrants are not the best people, nor do I assume they are any better than Canadians. No I do not work for immigration Canada, but I do know that many people do not deserve to be here and many do deserve too. And in many instances yes Tom, Dick and Harry do come in, do not be so naive.

Foreign professionals have foreign credentials thats great if you work in that foreign country. But they have to have Canadian credentials and standards to work in CANADA, thats what I am talking about. These professionals have to conform to the Canadian system not vice versa, until then do not expect to work in that field.

Wow! How vague is THAT! No one is asking anyone to guarantee anything. The only thing that is being asked is that people be given a CHANCE to work in their own fields. Even that CHANCE is not being given.

Tell me how they are not given a CHANCE, state how it is any different looking for a job from an immigrants standpoint, they have every CHANCE I have. I cannot be an engineer if I wanted to, why not, because I do not meet the Canadian Standards for practicing engineering here in Canada, and I do not have my B.Eng from a credible school.

That's obvious. What you don't understand is that if we are talking about chances, there has to be a reasonable chance that an immigrant gets a job in his own field, just as there is a chance that he would not work in his own field.  However, that resonable chance of him getting work in his own field is non-existent.

Reading through that article you can see many reasons why immigrants do not get jobs. Language skills, education, age, Canadian work experience, wow sounds exactly like the same things I face. Language is not an issue for me cause I was born here and spoke English all my life. Those are obvious valid points on why, if I was an employer, I would not hire an immigrant w/o those skills. No one is questioning intelligence here, just necessary skills to be compentent at a job that someone pays you for.

This is what I was talking about. What is the government doing? This immigration thing is not just a one way process. IMMIGRANTS ARE ALLOWED COME TO CANADA PRECISELY BECAUSE CANADA NEEDS THEM. Its' not some social work that the government is carrying on. IF IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS ARE NOT UTILISED, THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY LOSERS.

Canada need immigrants, but the businesses have the final say in who they hire, thankfully. I agree that encouraging immigration should be for people who meet the criteria that is asked of by employers not government.

Another load of crap. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT REFUGEES, I'M TALKING ABOUT LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. THEY PAY TAXES JUST AS YOU DO.

Load of crap, the statistics show these people have work, albeit not the dream job they wanted. Therefore are making money and able to pay taxes, thats fine with me, but I am not going to lose sleep over immigrants not getting their dream, sorry I have to worry about getting my dream job first.

What crap are you talking? IF FOREIGN TRAINED IMMIGRANTS WEREN'T AS GOOD (ACTUALLY THEY ARE FAR BETTER) THAN CANADIAN GRADS, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE PASSED THE SELECTION CRITERIA OF THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT?

Unless you believe that the government is bringing in trash from all over the world.

Now here is where you are dishing out the crap. IF FOREIGN TRAINED WORKERS ARE AS WELL TRAINED AS YOU HAVE STATED. WHY CAN THEY NOT GET JOBS, WHO ARE FILLING THOSE POSITIONS? OH YES ITS THOSE NOT AS WELL TRAINED CANADIANS. I BELIEVE WE ARE AS WELL TRAINED AS ANY GROUP. IMMIGRANTS ARE BROUGHT HERE TO FILL THE POSITIONS THAT GO UNFILLED BY CANADIANS. AND RIGHT NOW THERE ARE NOT MANY GOOD POSITIONS TO BE FILLED BY CANADIANS OR IMMIGRANTS.

CAN YOU NOT SEE THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN WHAT BUSINESSES DEMAND AND WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DEMANDS OF IMMIGRANTS. TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.

WITHOUT A DOUBT I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT IN MANY INSTANCES BRINGS IN TRASH FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

[d4dev]

Sully, after I read my earlier post, I thought that I may have been a little rude. I apologise if anyone here was offended.

I personally do not "define" anything, actually the businesses define what it is they are looking for in an employee.  I never stated that immigrants are not the best people, nor do I assume they are any better than Canadians. No I do not work for immigration Canada, but I do know that many people do not deserve to be here and many do deserve too.  And in many instances yes Tom, Dick and Harry do come in, do not be so naive.

I challenge you to prove to me or give an example when even 1 legally admitted immigrant is any worse (in terms of qualifications/experience) to a Canadian grad.

Foreign professionals have foreign credentials thats great if you work in that foreign country. But they have to have Canadian credentials and standards to work in CANADA, thats what I am talking about.   These professionals have to conform to the Canadian system not vice versa, until then do not expect to work in that field.

You don't seem to know that every immigrant with foreign qualifications has to first go through a process of requalification. For example, foreign engineers have to get their qualifications approved by the CCPE (Canadian council of Professional Engineers.) The same is true for all professions. So saying that foreign professionals are suitable only for the work enviournment in their country is wrong.

Tell me how they are not given a CHANCE, state how it is any different looking for a job from an immigrants standpoint, they have every CHANCE I have.  I cannot be an engineer if I wanted to, why not, because I do not meet the Canadian Standards for practicing engineering here in Canada, and I do not have my B.Eng from a credible school.

Answer same as above.

Reading through that article you can see many reasons why immigrants do not get jobs. Language skills, education, age, Canadian work experience, wow sounds exactly like the same things I face. Language is not an issue for me cause I was born here and spoke English all my life. Those are obvious valid points on why, if I was an employer, I would not hire an immigrant w/o those skills. No one is questioning intelligence here, just necessary skills to be compentent at a job that someone pays you for.

That's a valid point. However, for foreign professionals, it's a vicious cycle of denial. Since they don't have a job, they don't have Canadian experience, and because they don't have Canadian experience, they don't get a job.

Canada need immigrants, but the businesses have the final say in who they hire, thankfully.  I agree that encouraging immigration should be for people who meet the criteria that is asked of by employers not government.

And I think that the government should make it easier for immigrants to get jobs in Canada then. Like making it easier for them to get certified by professional associations.

Now here is where you are dishing out the crap. IF FOREIGN TRAINED WORKERS ARE AS WELL TRAINED AS YOU HAVE STATED. WHY CAN THEY NOT GET JOBS, WHO ARE FILLING THOSE POSITIONS? OH YES ITS THOSE NOT AS WELL TRAINED CANADIANS.  I BELIEVE WE ARE AS WELL TRAINED AS ANY GROUP. IMMIGRANTS ARE BROUGHT HERE TO FILL THE POSITIONS THAT GO UNFILLED BY CANADIANS. AND RIGHT NOW THERE ARE NOT MANY GOOD POSITIONS TO BE FILLED BY CANADIANS OR IMMIGRANTS.

In answer to your 'who are filling those positions', it's no one. That's why Canada is facing a shortage of skilled workers, that's why immigration is being allowed. Can't you see it? Immigration is being allowed because Canada is facing a skilled labour shortage. However, even after coming to Canada, their skills are not being put to good use. That is what all this is all about.

[Sully]

No worries bout the rudeness thing, its easy for all of us to come off as implying or sounding like something we did not intend.

I challenge you to prove to me or give an example when even 1 legally admitted immigrant is any worse (in terms of qualifications/experience) to a Canadian grad.

I am looking for a example for you may take me sometime. Cause I wanna bring some proof for ya.

You don't seem to know that every immigrant with foreign qualifications has to first go through a process of requalification. For example, foreign engineers have to get their qualifications approved by the CCPE (Canadian council of Professional Engineers.) The same is true for all professions. So saying that foreign professionals are suitable only for the work enviournment in their country is wrong.

The point your missing is that there is obviously a clear distinction between what the two separate identies, Government and Business want. Government wants one thing, business wants another. Immigrants must meet both standards, not just the governments, afterall its the employer paying the wage not the government.

And the stuff you keep mentioning about CHANCE it is the same thing all of us face. If I want a better job, I have to compete against people with more experience than myself and most likely I will not get that job. These chances are the same for everyone with equal skill sets. Obviously these immigrants possess lower skill sets or else they would get jobs, do you not see that. Not all immigrants possess such superior training and skills as you seem to imply.

That's a valid point. However, for foreign professionals, it's a vicious cycle of denial. Since they don't have a job, they don't have Canadian experience, and because they don't have Canadian experience, they don't get a job.

Talk to Canadians and see if they have had to face this situation before, once again nothing new, most Canadians have dealt with this issue before.

And I think that the government should make it easier for immigrants to get jobs in Canada then. Like making it easier for them to get certified by professional associations.

See this is exactly what I was afraid of lowering standards for immigrants to allow them to get jobs. I mentioned this before NO WAY SHOULD ANY CANADIAN support that idea. Its silly and will result in more trouble than its worth. How about making it easier for existing Canadians with skills to get work. I know we need immigrants and yes if jobs go unfilled by Canadian, then great let a skilled immigrant who meets Canadian standards fill that position. NO LOWERING OF STANDARDS AS YOU SUGGEST.

Please answer me why you think that an immigrant should get certified easier than a Canadian?

In answer to your 'who are filling those positions', it's no one. That's why Canada is facing a shortage of skilled workers, that's why immigration is being allowed. Can't you see it? Immigration is being allowed because Canada is facing a skilled labour shortage. However, even after coming to Canada, their skills are not being put to good use. That is what all this is all about.

Read the papers supply of University grads has outpaced the demand for them, I know I am a recent one. Some industries may face shortages, while others supluses. But overall too much supply right now.

Immigration is being allowed for many reasons, if you think its solely for bringing a worker here to pay taxes, I wish. You know how many grannies and grampies make their way over here cause their younger generations are here. Look around those people were not born here, they immigrated, hardly what you would call a skilled worker. Immigration is needed, but I do believe in part that it is somehow believed that immigration is needed to make a country grow. Canada with such a small population and large country feels the need to have more people. Out of the seven top GDP whose has the smallest population?

[Black Dog]

Obviously these immigrants possess lower skill sets or else they would get jobs, do you not see that.

The Canadian unemployment rate is 7.4 per cent. It's safe to assume many of those are born and bred Canadians. So what's their excuse?