"Money to stop the pirates would be best sent to them"

[tango]

Somali pirates "smell money" as good times return

Authorities in northern Puntland region, which includes Eyl, said money spent on the huge foreign ship deployment to stop the pirates would be best sent to them.

"If the world gave us 10 percent of the money they use for warships, we would fight pirates on land and thus eliminate them," Puntland information minister Warsame Abdi told Reuters in the region's main port, Bosasso.

[bush_cheney2004]

Send them not dollars...but much death and destruction.

[tango]

At great public expense and for private profit. right. makes total sense.

Hard to argue with their logic, on an economic or human level.

Context is everything.

The Islamic Courts Union was led by Sheikh Sharif Ahmed. When asked if the ICU plans to extend its control to the rest of Somalia, Sheikh Ahmed responded in an interview: "Land is not our priority. Our priority is the people's peace, dignity and that they could live in liberty, that they could decide their own fate. That is our priority. Our priority is not land; the people are important to us."[32]

Somalia at the height of I.C.U. power, December 2006

Several hundred people, mostly civilians caught in the crossfire, died during this conflict. Mogadishu residents described it as the worst fighting in more than a decade. The Islamic Courts Union accused the U.S. of funding the warlords through the Central Intelligence Agency and supplying them with arms in an effort to prevent the Islamic Courts Union from gaining power. The United States Department of State, while neither admitting nor denying this, said the U.S. had taken no action that violated the international arms embargo of Somalia. A few e-mails describing covert illegal operations by private military companies in breach of U.N. regulations have been reported[33] by the UK Sunday newspaper The Observer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia#2000.E2.80.93Present

Ah the stink of the CIA ... protecting what? whose interests?

Edited April 11, 2009 by tango

[Riverwind]

Authorities in northern Puntland region, which includes Eyl, said money spent on the huge foreign ship deployment to stop the pirates would be best sent to them.

Nonsense. The pirates are profiteers looking to line their own pockets at the expense of others. Giving aid to the Somali government would not benefit them personally and would not remove the incentive for piracy. The only way to stop piracy is to make the risk too high to justify the reward by drowning/shooting as many of them as possible.

[wulf42]

Send them not dollars...but much death and destruction.

Agreed..............they need to be sent total destruction! these animals have to be eliminated in total!

[DogOnPorch]

Nonsense. The pirates are profiteers looking to line their own pockets at the expense of others. Giving aid to the Somali government would not benefit them personally and would not remove the incentive for piracy. The only way to stop piracy is to make the risk too high to justify the reward by drowning/shooting as many of them as possible.

Soooo-mali guuuvern-ment? (struggles) Separately I understand the words...together they make no sense.

Edited April 15, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[tango]

That's Riverwind's misunderstanding. No, I think the pirates meant directly to them.

Fact is, the country has been destabilized in the interests of private profit, and those who lived off the land no longer can.

Point being ... what capitalism took away from them should be returned - their livelihood.

[M.Dancer]

Point being ... what capitalism took away from them should be returned - their livelihood.

Somehow I don't think it was capitalism's fault there was a severe drought and their goats died.

[tango]

The CIA's hand is evident, as in ALL destabilized countries

The Islamic Courts Union accused the U.S. of funding the warlords through the Central Intelligence Agency and supplying them with arms in an effort to prevent the Islamic Courts Union from gaining power.

See source above.

Ah yes ... here it is ... oil

American and Chinese oil companies are also excited about the prospect of oil and other natural resources in Somalia. An oil group listed in Sydney, Range Resources, anticipates that the Puntland province in the north has the potential to produce 5 billion to 10 billion barrels of oil.[58]

Now we know what the purpose of the destabilization is.

Following the massive tsunami of December 2004, there have also emerged allegations that after the outbreak of the Somali Civil War in the late 1980s, Somalia's long, remote shoreline was used as a dump site for the disposal of toxic waste. The huge waves which battered northern Somalia after the tsunami are believed to have stirred up tonnes of nuclear and toxic waste that was illegally dumped in the country by several European firms.

Edited April 15, 2009 by tango

[jbg]

"If the world gave us 10 percent of the money they use for warships, we would fight pirates on land and thus eliminate them," Puntland information minister Warsame Abdi told Reuters in the region's main port, Bosasso.

Give it to who and for what?

Sounds like a protection racket to me. During the late 1700's and the early 1800's the Europeans and the U.S. Federalist Party played that game; the Democratic-Republican Party, taking office in 1801, did not. To this day, the world is haunted by Europe's show of weakness. The U.S. has gained from its proud self-respect.

[tango]

Give it to who and for what?

Sounds like a protection racket to me. During the late 1700's and the early 1800's the Europeans and the U.S. Federalist Party played that game; the Democratic-Republican Party, taking office in 1801, did not. To this day, the world is haunted by Europe's show of weakness. The U.S. has gained from its proud self-respect.

Well, I think there's some truth in their joke. Afterall, the US and European countries had a huge hand in destabilizing Somalia and destroying their livelihoods.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, I think there's some truth in their joke. Afterall, the US and European countries had a huge hand in destabilizing Somalia and destroying their livelihoods.

But not Canada...right?

Gee...I wonder why it was called the Somalia Affair?

Edited April 17, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[tango]

But not Canada...right?

Gee...I wonder why it was called the Somalia Affair?

Oh yes, we had our bad moments, and the Canadian Airborne Regiment is no more.

When an officer returning from patrol checked on Arone he found that he had no pulse, and base medics confirmed that the boy was dead. A death in custody automatically triggers an investigation, and two days later Matchee and Brown were arrested and charged with the murder and National Defence Headquarters was advised. Master Corporal Matchee later attempted suicide; the attempt failed but caused massive brain damage, making him unfit to stand trial. Brown was found guilty of manslaughter.

Brown claimed in his defence that he informed every officer he could find of the happenings in the bunker, and requested that they intervene. Brown stated that when the officers declined to stop the torture, he began documenting the event with photographs. Brown later published a book in which he presented a case wherein he had been made the scapegoat for the incident and the officers who had not intervened were not brought to justice.

Charges subsequently laid against members of the Canadian Airborne Regiment suggested that sixteen people had passed through the area where Arone was tortured and that, during the night, his screams could be heard throughout the surrounding area. The commander of 2 Commando and a number of his subordinate supervisors were court-martialed and found guilty under article 124 of the National Defence Act (Negligent Performance of Duties). The Commanding Officer of the Airborne, Lieutenant Colonel Mathieu, was tried twice by courts-martial acquitted of wrong-doing both times.

But ... we don't intentionally destabilize countries, prop up dictators, etc. to get their oil, etc. into private hands ... etc.

Like the US/CIA did in Somalia.

And to my knowledge, the ships dumping toxic waste that destroyed Somalia's fishing industry were European, not Canadian.

[bush_cheney2004]

But ... we don't intentionally destabilize countries, prop up dictators, etc. to get their oil, etc. into private hands ... etc.

Like the US/CIA did in Somalia.

Bullshit.....ever been to Haiti? Wanna buy a copper mine? How about another trip to Iraq or Serbia?

And to my knowledge, the ships dumping toxic waste that destroyed Somalia's fishing industry were European, not Canadian.

Don't get your panties in a bundle....I called you on an obvious oversight...no big deal.

Edited April 17, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[tango]

Bullshit.....ever been to Haiti? Wanna buy a copper mine? How about another trip to Iraq or Serbia?

If you are trying to say something, spit it out.

[jbg]

Well, I think there's some truth in their joke. Afterall, the US and European countries had a huge hand in destabilizing Somalia and destroying their livelihoods.

I don't think they're joking and if they're not it isn't funny.

During the Barbary era there were intermittent efforts both to fight and to bribe. Ultimately, in 1815, the matter was forced to military resolution, after 30 years of back and forth.

[ironstone]

Well, I think there's some truth in their joke. Afterall, the US and European countries had a huge hand in destabilizing Somalia and destroying their livelihoods.

And let's not forget the Somali warlords shall we?You can't lay all of the blame on the US and Europe.

[tango]

And let's not forget the Somali warlords shall we?You can't lay all of the blame on the US and Europe.

From previous page in this thread ...

The Islamic Courts Union accused the U.S. of funding the warlords through the Central Intelligence Agency and supplying them with arms in an effort to prevent the Islamic Courts Union from gaining power.

You mean the Warlords funded by the US/CIA?

[Hydraboss]

I think the US has what it needs in the area

The initial ARLEIGH BURKE-class guided missile destroyers have a full load displacement of 8,300 tons

www.bainbridge.navy.mil

Maybe one or two more of these, and orders to open fire on hostiles. That'd just about do it.

[moderateamericain]

I think the US has what it needs in the area

www.bainbridge.navy.mil

Maybe one or two more of these, and orders to open fire on hostiles. That'd just about do it.

The problem with Somalia is its full of Somalians.

[DogOnPorch]

From previous page in this thread ...

The Islamic Courts Union accused the U.S. of funding the warlords through the Central Intelligence Agency and supplying them with arms in an effort to prevent the Islamic Courts Union from gaining power.

You mean the Warlords funded by the US/CIA?

Accused by the enemy...lol. As well, I think you'll find the the most common weapon in Africa doesn't come from the US of A.

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Galle...AK47/image5.jpg

Edited May 4, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[JB Globe]

If Somalia wasn't a failed state, there would be no piracy.

Also, if the US hadn't been so quick to depose the Islamic Courts Union because they were Islamist (but not terrorists) than there wouldn't be piracy, because they all but shut it down in the 6 months they were in power.

But of course the US a few years ago was driven by such an over-bearing ideology in the White House that no amount of realism in the state department or CIA could prevail, the ICU was tossed out and the pirates got worse than ever, and that provisional government that was put in it's place crumbled. Now the former ICU head is the head of the new US & UN-backed provisional government in exile - looks like he wasn't the anti-christ after all.

Sometimes you just have to go with the lesser of two evils, and the sad things is if we went with the ICU it would benefit Somalis & the rest of the world as well.

We'd get pirate-free waters, Somalis would get a repressive yet stable government that could deliver international aid. Sure beats the kind of anarchy they deal with now where you can get killed because a warlord's gunman is having a boring day and needs some sport.

[M.Dancer]

If Somalia wasn't a failed state, there would be no piracy.

Perhaps...I hear indonesia Singapore and Malaysia ain't failed impoverished states....if you dig what I am saying...

[JB Globe]

Perhaps...I hear indonesia Singapore and Malaysia ain't failed impoverished states....if you dig what I am saying...

Which is why Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore have the capacity to do coordinated naval and land patrols and, which have cut piracy in the strait of Malacca dramatically. When the Islamic Courts Union was in charge of Somalia, they could coordinate resources to fight piracy as well, and it was all but eliminated. But dozens of warlords can't coordinate resources to fight piracy, they're too busy fighting each other to gain power.

[M.Dancer]

Which is why Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore have the capacity to do coordinated naval and land patrols and, which have cut piracy in the strait of Malacca dramatically. When the Islamic Courts Union was in charge of Somalia, they could coordinate resources to fight piracy as well, and it was all but eliminated. But dozens of warlords can't coordinate resources to fight piracy, they're too busy fighting each other to gain power.

Still the #1 pirate coast. Yet, even with the wealth and infrasctructure, piracy took off anyway.

Crime isn't a function of poverty, it's a function of stupidity, laziness, opportunity and wealth.