Are Rich People More Likely To Be Crazy?

[August1991]

The old line is that if you are poor and crazy, you are simply crazy. But if you are rich and crazy, you are eccentric.

My thinking is different. It seems to me that crazy people are often self-indulgent, and rich people by definition can indulge. Poor people cannot afford to be crazy.

IOW, mental illness is a more pronounced phenomenon of rich societies such as Canada than, say, Burma. Dunno.

[WIP]

Mental illness is a biologically rooted problem, not an issue over character or how much money someone has. Someone who is bi-polar, schizophrenic, or has some other serious depressive disorder is more likely to be poor, since their illness will make it more difficult for them in interacting with others and even hold down a menial job.

The simple fact is that different people with different serotonin transporters will also have more susceptibility to depression, and there is little that environmental factors such as wealth, will have on it -- except for the obvious -- the rich will have access to better treatment and better anti-depressant drugs.

[Oleg Bach]

Mental illness is a biologically rooted problem, not an issue over character or how much money someone has. Someone who is bi-polar, schizophrenic, or has some other serious depressive disorder is more likely to be poor, since their illness will make it more difficult for them in interacting with others and even hold down a menial job.

The simple fact is that different people with different serotonin transporters will also have more susceptibility to depression, and there is little that environmental factors such as wealth, will have on it -- except for the obvious -- the rich will have access to better treatment and better anti-depressant drugs.

Poverty creates mental illness - the rich suffer from dellusionary disconnection from reality... I know of a very rich rich man - and he stated one day "What do you think of the weather that I have sent you?" - I would say that is pretty cocky and a bit nutty...scarey part was - was that he was serious. As for anti-depressant drugs - the rich must just love them - The cure the depression by re-wiring the brain and removing natural higher things such as remorse - guilt and compassion - so you get the effect of happiness...The draw back is - don't dare stop using these insidious compounds - I have seen three cases personally - where people perscribed these drugs KILLED themselves...like god damn clock work.. And if you think the rich have better "treatment"..

Of course they do - they can hire the best shrink and he will tell them exactly what they want to hear. During a crimminal matter as a young street guitar playing punk - I decided to go get my own report from a shrink - before the other side generated one - so off I went to...to she a head doctor that my mother used to secure some damage money from an accident.

This doctor was very controlling and angry --- eventually as I was about to attend a meeting with him _ I caught him in the elevator staggering and bouncing off the wall - he had over medicated himself...Then he went on to spill the beans and started telling me about who he had treated - and ironically- he had cared for some very rich people - including some of the ones I was dealing with in court....THEN it got worse - He started to go on about his divorce and how "my wife is financially raping me" - THEN he started to weep like a baby ----damn - I thought - this head doctor is nuts! He screamed at me and said "YOU have to take these - you can not be running around like a crazy man" - so I tried the pills for a week - I was seeing shadows doing dances on the side walk - my friends and family were about to disown me - so I dumped the dope in the toilet ..

So if you really think that rich get better care as far as mental health ------I DON'T THINK SO..

[kimmy]

The old line is that if you are poor and crazy, you are simply crazy. But if you are rich and crazy, you are eccentric.

My thinking is different. It seems to me that crazy people are often self-indulgent, and rich people by definition can indulge. Poor people cannot afford to be crazy.

IOW, mental illness is a more pronounced phenomenon of rich societies such as Canada than, say, Burma. Dunno.

I think you have it backwards.

I think financial status tends to be a function of mental capability, not vice-versa. I strongly suspect that being crazy often results in being poor, and seldom results in being rich.

If Canada has more crazy people per capita than, say, Burma, it is likely because our society is somewhat more charitable, allowing crazy people to survive longer.

Crazy is not a terribly scientific term at any rate. However, I believe research has indicated that mental illness is far more prevalent among the homeless than among the population as a whole. So, my money would be on "poor people are likely to be crazy."

-k

[WIP]

Poverty creates mental illness

It is not the root cause of mental illness, although it can exacerbate symptoms since poor people are more likely to work in low status menial jobs or be unemployed. Some recent studies of stress-related illness have shown that contrary to expectations, the executives and managers may have stress from responsibilities of running a company or department, but that sort of stress is less damaging physically (less likely to raise cortisol levels) than stress related to feelings of lack of control on the job, or feeling trapped in dangerous public housing.

[August1991]

I think you have it backwards.

I think financial status tends to be a function of mental capability, not vice-versa. I strongly suspect that being crazy often results in being poor, and seldom results in being rich.

That would be true if the wealth has to be earned. Kimmy, I have no doubt that crazy people rarely become rich.

OTOH, few, if anyone, alive today in Canada was born into dire poverty. We are rich and can afford to behave like prodigal daughters and sons. We inherited our wealth and can enjoy it. Canadians can afford to be psychotic in ways that, say, Burmans cannot.

Mental illness is a biologically rooted problem, not an issue over character or how much money someone has.

...

The simple fact is that different people with different serotonin transporters will also have more susceptibility to depression, and there is little that environmental factors such as wealth, will have on it -- except for the obvious -- the rich will have access to better treatment and better anti-depressant drugs.

That's where I partly disagree.

I have no doubt that some mental illness, like some physical illness, is purely a question of external chance or genetics: wrong place, wrong time.

But often, mental illness, like physical injury, is a question of choice. If you smoke cigarettes, you are more likely to suffer from cancer. If you are rich, you can afford to indulge your fantasies - often hurtful to others.

----

What is "crazy" anyway? Maybe I should have said that rich people can afford to be anti-social.

Edited March 24, 2009 by August1991

[moderateamericain]

The old line is that if you are poor and crazy, you are simply crazy. But if you are rich and crazy, you are eccentric.

My thinking is different. It seems to me that crazy people are often self-indulgent, and rich people by definition can indulge. Poor people cannot afford to be crazy.

IOW, mental illness is a more pronounced phenomenon of rich societies such as Canada than, say, Burma. Dunno.

Are you sure your not mistaking the ability to report and treat mental illness in rich countries with the inability to treat and majority unreported cases of mental illness in poor countries? I would guess theres just as much loonies in any country as there are here. Its just that in western society we have social programs in place to deal with those we can not treat and try and help those we can.

[Oleg Bach]

Rich people get so disconnected from reality in time that they forget they are no different biologically and emotionally than the bum on the street. That they too can fall ill with emotional pangs and intellectual dellusionism. I watch them having their hundred dollar brunches..sipping wine and smiling with clean faces while like children being so proud of their five hundred dollar shoes. My parents saw the total collapse of Russia -the great distruction of all civil infrastructure and culture of all of Europe - Our rich feel - it can't happen here and they are eternally protected by wealth - well - It can happen anywhere and to be aware of that fact is real wealth.

[eyeball]

Maybe I should have said that rich people can afford to be anti-social.

That definitely changes the whole tone of your OP. Being anti-social is a choice not a disease. The statement "rich people can afford to be anti-social" raises the question can society afford rich people? Thankfully we can choose to tax the living shit out of them to reduce and remediate the adverse effects their indulgent behaviour has on society.

Too bad about Burma OTOH. I guess that's what happens when you let the wealthy indulge too much. We'd have to be crazy to let our wealthy people get out of control.

[Michael Hardner]

Here's a side point:

Obsessive-compulsive disorder can be considered a mental illness, and I'm pretty sure many of the self-made successes I've known have suffered from it. Obsession with money can make you crazy and rich.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Michael Hardner

[KeyStone]

The old line is that if you are poor and crazy, you are simply crazy. But if you are rich and crazy, you are eccentric.

My thinking is different. It seems to me that crazy people are often self-indulgent, and rich people by definition can indulge. Poor people cannot afford to be crazy.

IOW, mental illness is a more pronounced phenomenon of rich societies such as Canada than, say, Burma. Dunno.

Interesting observation, and while I don't have scientific analysis to back it up, I suspect that you are right that there are more people in Canada that are crazy, than people in Burma.

However, let's look at the real reasons:

1) 'Crazy' people don't survive long in Burma such that their numbers go down much faster.

2) 'Crazy' don't get diagnosed in Burma. There are no doctors to tell people they are bipolar, schizo etc - if your life isn't in immediate jeopardy from entrails hanging out of your stomach, you aren't high priority.

3) I think that people that have a clear focus and clear goal, are less likely to be crazy. When your goal is survival then you don't really have time to ponder the universe, existentialism, the cosmos etc. - I think perhaps this is the part that you are getting at.

The truth is that we simply don't know how many crazy people are in the 3rd world because it isn't diagnosed properly or recorded.

Now, if you were to compare a relatively poor society with good medical (Cuba for instance) to a country like ours, then you might be able to draw some meaningful conclusions.

[RB]

Rich people are nutcases but we don't wish to offend them, afterall they support the social stucture of society e.g. the have giving to the have not

[August1991]

Margaret Trudeau steps into the lobby of Toronto's Royal York hotel on the stroke of the hour. Dressed in a black skirt and sweater over a white blouse, worn with pearls, she has come to talk about her work as a speaker on mental-health issues since she went public three years ago with her diagnosis with a bipolar mood disorder.

“Depression is 80 per cent of my condition,” she says now. “And 10 per cent is mania, and 10 per cent is what we call normal. I say that must be when I am buying groceries,” she jokes. “Or vacuuming.”

G&M

For her entire life, Margaret Sinclair/Trudeau has been rich. She has never had to worry about paying her rent. She has always had people around her to help. Rich? She has not only been rich in monetary terms - she is also "rich" in the terms of life: she is physically beautiful, with deep blue eyes.

IOW, Margaret Trudeau is a good example of a rich person who can afford to be crazy.

If Margaret Trudeau were ugly, if she had not been born into a rich family, would she still suffer from this bipolar mental illness?

----

But then I read this remarkable quote at the end of the G&M interview:

Work is another salvation. “If you don't work, you don't have purpose and you don't love yourself,” she observes. Being a mother is meaningful and so is volunteering, but her own experience, especially after her divorce from Mr. Trudeau, showed her the value of paid work. He did not pay spousal support.

“That was my choice,” she says. “Well, he made me see the wisdom in it. I was raised by a Scottish father and he was raised by a Scottish mother,” and they shared the WASP ethos that “we don't live on other people's money. We make our own if we are strong, healthy, educated people.”

It's true. Margaret had a Scottish father and Trudeau had a Scottish mother (not WASP, Catholic).

The Scots, regardless of religion, are practical people.

Edited May 10, 2009 by August1991

[kimmy]

G&M

For her entire life, Margaret Sinclair/Trudeau has been rich. She has never had to worry about paying her rent. She has always had people around her to help. Rich? She has not only been rich in monetary terms - she is also "rich" in the terms of life: she is physically beautiful, with deep blue eyes.

IOW, Margaret Trudeau is a good example of a rich person who can afford to be crazy.

If Margaret Trudeau were ugly, if she had not been born into a rich family, would she still suffer from this bipolar mental illness?

"Crazy" is a poor choice of words in this instance, August.

People suffering from clinical depression are no less functional than anyone else. (a controversial study a few years ago suggested that in technical-analytical occupations, depressed people tend to exceed their "well" counterparts, if I recall.) In short, one needn't be rich to "afford" to be clinically depressed.

I suspect manic depression is similar. I have known a couple of manic-depressive people (and likely more...) and both were highly functional and successful people who did not even believe they were ill until their personal lives began to fall apart. As with depressed people, I believe manic-depression has little effect on one's competency or ability to work, but significant impact on one's personal life and overall enjoyment of life.

Margaret Trudeau might be classified as mentally ill, but this type of illness is not the sort that tends to leave people pushing around a shopping cart full of bottles and ranting about Reptillian Overlords.

-k