David Dodge criticism doesn't shake PM Harper's vision of econ

[eyeball]

OTTAWA — Canada and the world are facing a long and deep recession that will fundamentally alter the nature of capitalism, former Bank of Canada governor David Dodge...

“We ignore [global warming] at our peril.”

Story

I would rather Dodge had said the environment instead of global warming but so be it. The article talks more about a lack of credit being the biggest impediment to a quick recovery but I think there will also be less natural capital to draw from as well. I think we've already ignored the environment and draw down of natural capital to our peril and that the collapse we're going through is in part caused by our economy's inabilty to base growth on real things in the real world. Instead it has sought growth in a largely theoretical world of financial make-believe where products are more virtual than real. We can't go on acting as if the planet were like some Second Life world of make believe.

I don't think capitalism has to change as much as we have to change what we do with it. The first thing we have to do is recognize the reality of natural capital and stop pretending the environment is somehow external to the economy.

The 2nd thing we need to figure out is how to reduce population growth.

[bill_barilko]

Thanks for posting on this I meant to read the article earlier.

Quite agree with the environmental capital comment, those who rarely venture outside of cities-that is to say most Canadians-don't understand how fragile the balance is and how much has been squandered.

[Oleg Bach]

Thanks for posting on this I meant to read the article earlier.

Quite agree with the environmental capital comment, those who rarely venture outside of cities-that is to say most Canadians-don't understand how fragile the balance is and how much has been squandered.

Growning up on the Oak Ridge Moraine - I saw the meadows and the lakes - the swamps and the diversity of anicent plant life - underneath this ridge was the largest and most pure ancient water supply on the planet - I watched them destroy the place...I know what was lost - those that are there now have not a clue what was squandered and passed over to habitualist developers who raped the most valuabel land on the planet.

[jdobbin]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...bYxgjSgHWv8vyJg

A showdown of sorts with a former bank governor over this country's prospects for economic recovery saw Prime Minister Stephen Harper entrench his stance Wednesday that Canada is better positioned than other nations mired in the global financial crisis.

While David Dodge is calling the prime minister's prediction that Ottawa will be back in surplus by 2013 "totally unrealistic," Harper defended the decidedly more upbeat message he's delivered several times in recent weeks.

Blowing sunshine is what Dodge says.

And about the GST cut:

Dodge also criticized Ottawa's move to cut the goods and services tax by two percentage points. The hole the tax cuts made in government revenue left Ottawa with a structural deficit at the end of the 2007-2008 fiscal year, even though the Finance Department won't admit it, Dodge said in the interview.

[Alta4ever]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...bYxgjSgHWv8vyJg

Blowing sunshine is what Dodge says.

And about the GST cut:

What do you expect coming from a liberal.

A raving reveiw of conservative yep that'll be the day.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Alta4ever

[August1991]

This is discussed elsewhere on this forum.

I happen to agree with much that Dodge says but he should know better than to say this. An ex-Governor of the Bank of Canada should speak in public only in special circumstances.

I was never impressed with David Dodge. He struck me as a typical bureaucrat jealous of the talents of private entrepreneurs.

[jdobbin]

What do you expect coming from a liberal.

David Dodge is a Liberal?

[Alta4ever]

David Dodge is a Liberal?

Does this make you happier "Liberal appointee"

[jdobbin]

Does this make you happier "Liberal appointee"

He also worked under Harper. So he is completely discredited it your mind.

[Progressive Tory]

I think his predictions are closer to the truth. This gov't lacked vision. They partied hearty with the huge surplus, and now that the party's over, they have no idea what to do.

I mentioned before that they have not looked at the broad picture. Do you know that almost 1/3 of the Canadian population is between the ages of 59-64? "Baby Boomers" who will either soon be retiring or at least drawing on gov't pensions.

Another massive loss of revenue, while tapping into gov't services.

This will have a huge impact on the economy before Harper's fairy tale ending. As an economist, Harper must know this, but as a politician, he doesn't want US to.

[Topaz]

I've heard US economists say at least 5 years before any improvement. It took the Libs 10 years to pay off 40 Billion so how is Harper going to pay off 84 Bil in 5 years? Harper said knew last fall how bad things were going to be and yet during the election, he never said anything and now he says we are ok next year. When ever Harper speaks, people do the opposite! No investing yet.

[Progressive Tory]

I've heard US economists say at least 5 years before any improvement. It took the Libs 10 years to pay off 40 Billion so how is Harper going to pay off 84 Bil in 5 years? Harper said knew last fall how bad things were going to be and yet during the election, he never said anything and now he says we are ok next year. When ever Harper speaks, people do the opposite! No investing yet.

Actually, it only took the Liberals two years to do it. However, the Conservative cuts to consumption tax will make it a little tougher. The GST will have to be raised. I don't see any other way.

[Alta4ever]

He also worked under Harper. So he is completely discredited it your mind.

Yet he wasn't re-appointed.

[jdobbin]

Yet he wasn't re-appointed.

Probably because he announced he would serve only a seven year term and then retire from long time service in government.

[Alta4ever]

Probably because he announced he would serve only a seven year term and then retire from long time service in government.

Yet they were all liberal government appointments.

Do you deny that he worked very closely with Paul Martin during the 90's.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Alta4ever

[Smallc]

Yet they were all liberal government appointments.

Do you deny that he worked very closely with Paul Martin during the 90's.

Being appointed by the Liberals and working with the Liberals (in the course of your job) doesn't automatically make one a Liberal.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Smallc

[jdobbin]

Do you deny that he worked very closely with Paul Martin during the 90's.

Do you deny that he was first appointed by the Conservatives to a government position?

[Oleg Bach]

Do you deny that he was first appointed by the Conservatives to a government position?

A bit to much denying going on - how about "do you believe" - and don't let them be non-commital and say "I think" Move ahead^

[Alta4ever]

Do you deny that he was first appointed by the Conservatives to a government position?

Yes I deny because he was first appointed by the PEE CEE's the small c conservatives at that time were part of the reform party.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Alta4ever

[capricorn]

When ever Harper speaks, people do the opposite! No investing yet.

I guess you missed today's news about the TSX.

Gold, oil push TSX to eighth straight gain

Toronto's main stock index closed higher for an eighth straight session on Thursday as the U.S. Federal Reserve's plan to fight the recession boosted commodity prices and buoyed the resource-heavy index.

---

The key Toronto index is now up 16 percent from the five-year low hit two weeks ago and finished the session at its highest closing level since February 11. It was also the first time since December 2004 that the index has risen in eight straight sessions.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews...E52I3XL20090319

I'm no expert but it looks like there's plenty of investment going on. This must be a result of Obama saying it's a good time to invest.

[Progressive Tory]

I'm no expert but it looks like there's plenty of investment going on. This must be a result of Obama saying it's a good time to invest.

It would be nice if this trend kept going but I think it's far too soon to count on that. We can't overlook the massive job losses and predictions of many more before it ends. The fact that people who have money to invest are cashing in, doesn't help those without jobs or little hope for the future.

We don't have to all be doomsdayers, but our gov't needs to be realistic. Predicting a surplus by 2013, is not realistic, and scares seasoned economists, who know better.

[blueblood]

I guess you missed today's news about the TSX.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews...E52I3XL20090319

I'm no expert but it looks like there's plenty of investment going on. This must be a result of Obama saying it's a good time to invest.

I agree canola was up 8 bucks today, apparently the US fed reserve stimulus is starting to kick in.

Oil went past 50 bucks.

[Slim MacSquinty]

Dodge is definately a Liberal, prior to being appointed to head of the BoC he worked for the finance department under Chretien. Extremely unusual for a former head of the BoC to take a stand like this, predicting the outcome of this recesion is like sooth saying, he should know that and he should keep his mouth shut and NEVER undermine the present head to the BoC. Says alot about his character.

Growning up on the Oak Ridge Moraine - I saw the meadows and the lakes - the swamps and the diversity of anicent plant life - underneath this ridge was the largest and most pure ancient water supply on the planet - I watched them destroy the place...I know what was lost - those that are there now have not a clue what was squandered and passed over to habitualist developers who raped the most valuabel land on the planet.

I live in the ORM and am offended by the ORM act, this piece of Liberal legislation is nothing but smoke and mirrors, while I can't do anything on my land because it is environmentally protected, if I sell to a gravel company they can mine to within a foot of the water table nature be damned. If this was truly to protect water, the Lafarge and Dufferin couldn't do what they do. This act is purely to protect the gravel resource, enacted by the Liberals when Sorbara (the developer) was in charge to protect him and his friends like Larry Tanenbaum (pres of Lafarge). I actually drink the water here, not a bunch of tree huggers in the city or Sobara and hsi developer friends.

[jdobbin]

Dodge is definately a Liberal, prior to being appointed to head of the BoC he worked for the finance department under Chretien. Extremely unusual for a former head of the BoC to take a stand like this, predicting the outcome of this recesion is like sooth saying, he should know that and he should keep his mouth shut and NEVER undermine the present head to the BoC. Says alot about his character.

Dodge worked under Mulroney, Chretien, Martin and Harper.

Former Bank of Canada governors have spoken in the past. I expect they will speak in the future.

[jdobbin]

Yes I deny because he was first appointed by the PEE CEE's the small c conservatives at that time were part of the reform party.

The same PCs that are now part of the Conservatives?

Guess we can conclude that Dodge first started government service and it wasn't under a Liberal government.