Robert Dziekanski

[Wilber]

I never said there were no appropriate uses for stun weapons. What I said, or at least meant to say, is that police forces throughout North America (and apparently elsewhere like Australia) have been using them far more widely than at moments of threat, and have in fact been using these devices as compliance devices.

Some have and some haven't. No question there have been abuses but in actual fact you can find big differences between departments and individual officers when it comes to their use. Some consistency is definitely in order.

[ToadBrother]

Some have and some haven't. No question there have been abuses but in actual fact you can find big differences between departments and individual officers when it comes to their use. Some consistency is definitely in order.

Tasers are only part of this story, and, from the report's findings, probably not the major one. It would appear that the entire altercation, but in particular the final moments, are what killed the man. But his death is only one part of it. The bigger issues was the slandering of the dead victim's character by RCMP spokesmen and the deliberate lack of correction as new information came forward. Braidwood obviously is relatively judicious, but reading between the lines, it's clear that the RCMP has some serious systemic issues, not the least of which is that seems to function in these sorts of events to wrap officers accused of such uses of force in a blanket of protection.

Cowboy cops have always been a problem, and probably always will be. But the appropriate response to such acts is not protect such individuals from the consequences of abuse of force, but rather to bring down the gauntlet. Protecting them only sends the message that cops can act above the law, and that is a damned dangerous message to send. We want responsible police, not cavalier goons who, in the eyes of their peers, superiors, the Crown and even the politicians, can do no wrong.

[Wilber]

I agree, the TAZER use was just one part of a much bigger problem in this case, that is why it is important not to make so much of it at the expense of bigger issues or paint all police departments and their officers with the same brush.

[thespeaker]

Is it surprising that the RCMP went after Mr. Dziekanski's reputation? that no charges were laid against officers? that it has fiercely resisted real attempts at imposing accountable, civilian oversight? Not really. Many are quick to blame the police for actions they take daily, and some of that is unjustified. But the culture of impunity remains in police forces, which protect officers who, if they were private citizens, would be jailed for the actions they took.

[Argus]

Yes, there's more to it than the tasers. To me, using the device at all was unnecessary stupidity. Especially given the controlled nature of the setting, and that it was a not-very-solid-looking middle aged man against four well-built young cops. Using it five times borders on sadism. Preventing the paramedics from checking on the guy was sheer arrogance. And lying about it all unforgivable dishonesty.

I have noticed this attitude among cops before, especially the younger ones. I think it's part of their training. They're trained to "take control" and exhibit an attitude of absolute power, both in voice and actions, tolerating no questioning of their requirements, speaking at times in what they apparently are taught is "command voice" which imho is so rude and arrogant it would probably provoke violence from any number of young men. When I was younger if anyone had talked to me like that I'd be as likely to pop him one in the face as obey, cop or not. And I was not a particularly rough hewn sort. God knows what the rougher types make of it.

I think they need to re-examine how they train police and work more at defusing tensions and fights than trying to cow people into submission.

[Wilber]

I think it is worth noting that not all police are trained in the same place. RCMP are trained at Depot in Regina. Non RCMP municipal police forces in BC and native band forces are trained at the Justice Institute in Burnaby BC, where instructors are drawn from all the forces who train there. I don't know what other provinces do but the point is, you can't make the same assumptions about all police forces when it comes to training or philosophy. It is also worth pointing out that the average metropolitan police officer is working twelve hour shifts dealing with the worst our society has to offer. When you think about it, if most of them weren't exercising a degree of restraint that many of us wouldn't be capable of, there would be a lot more incidents in the news.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Call your local police department and ask to be taken on a ride around with a patrol officer on a busy Friday or Saturday night. You will get an eye opener.

[Smallc]

Definitely. People seem to be far to quick to judge a job that they don't understand in the least. I will also say that RCMP officers doing municipal policing are seeing the worst of society.

[Wilber]

Definitely. People seem to be far to quick to judge a job that they don't understand in the least. I will also say that RCMP officers doing municipal policing are seeing the worst of society.

Yes they are.

[bjre]

Definitely. People seem to be far to quick to judge a job that they don't understand in the least. I will also say that RCMP officers doing municipal policing are seeing the worst of society.

So what? people are that silly? votes come from such silly people are silly? dictators are reasonable? RCMP should be one of those who dictate? that is the reason why although most people thinks its ridiculous, still many such laws should exist in its way?

[bush_cheney2004]

I never said there were no appropriate uses for stun weapons. What I said, or at least meant to say, is that police forces throughout North America (and apparently elsewhere like Australia) have been using them far more widely than at moments of threat, and have in fact been using these devices as compliance devices.

As they should....the days of requiring police officers to take unnecessary personal risk to detain and arrest perps is over. There is a well defined escalation of force protocol that should be followed up to and including deadly force.

[Molly]

Definitely. People seem to be far to quick to judge a job that they don't understand in the least.

'Xcuse me, but when someone is killed so unnecessarily, through such absence of judgement or restraint..... and then they go to such lengths to cover it up and lie about it..... and then they ask for our trust and respect....

...we have a right to judge that, and to find it unacceptable.

They are supposed to be PEACE officers.

[Wild Bill]

I have noticed this attitude among cops before, especially the younger ones. I think it's part of their training. They're trained to "take control" and exhibit an attitude of absolute power, both in voice and actions, tolerating no questioning of their requirements, speaking at times in what they apparently are taught is "command voice" which imho is so rude and arrogant it would probably provoke violence from any number of young men. When I was younger if anyone had talked to me like that I'd be as likely to pop him one in the face as obey, cop or not. And I was not a particularly rough hewn sort. God knows what the rougher types make of it.

I think they need to re-examine how they train police and work more at defusing tensions and fights than trying to cow people into submission.

Good point! Reminds me of the movie "Roadhouse" with Patrick Swayze as a 'super bouncer' brought in to tame a roadhouse experiencing out of control violence. First thing he did was to stop the bouncers from fighting as much as the rowdies and work to defuse situations!

The mounties in this case do seem to have come from the "Wyatt Earp" training school. In my opinion, tazering 5 simultaneous blasts was manslaughter! It was an expression of sheer, bullying ignorance of the consequences.

For that reason, I'm betting that Vic Toews was their training instructor! It's totally his style!

It was quoted in yesterday's Post that not only is Vic not liked by most of his caucus, even Harper thinks he's a dictatorial dink!

Watch for a change next cabinet shuffle.

[Smallc]

'Xcuse me, but when someone is killed so unnecessarily, through such absence of judgement or restraint..... and then they go to such lengths to cover it up and lie about it..... and then they ask for our trust and respect....

There were people in this thread judging all police officers, and painting them with one brush. Even to do the same to the RCMP is going too far. But really, if someone told you something was completely safe, would you use it?

[bjre]

There were people in this thread judging all police officers, and painting them with one brush. Even to do the same to the RCMP is going too far.

Are you suggesting send them to jail so that they can shut up? so that only "right" voice left.

[kimmy]

Are you suggesting send them to jail so that they can shut up? so that only "right" voice left.

Is there something you're trying to say? Are you attempting to communicate in English? Are you retarded?

Help us understand where you're coming from.

-k

[bjre]

Is there something you're trying to say? Are you attempting to communicate in English? Are you retarded?

Help us understand where you're coming from.

-k

Irrelevant message comes when you find yourself illogical.

[bloodyminded]

Oh, the timing! Too good.

[bjre]

Oh, the timing! Too good.

Did you find a new continent?

[jbg]

Is there something you're trying to say? Are you attempting to communicate in English?

Maybe that's Canadian and not English.