Some Things Canada Gets Right

August1991 · February 9, 2009

We often criticize Canadian policies on this forum but this article is correct in some ways.

In 2008, the World Economic Forum ranked Canada's banking system the healthiest in the world. America's ranked 40th, Britain's 44th.
Canada has done more than survive this financial crisis. The country is positively thriving in it. Canadian banks are well capitalized and poised to take advantage of opportunities that American and European banks cannot seize. The Toronto Dominion Bank, for example, was the 15th-largest bank in North America one year ago. Now it is the fifth-largest. It hasn't grown in size; the others have all shrunk.

So what accounts for the genius of the Canadians? Common sense. Over the past 15 years, as the United States and Europe loosened regulations on their financial industries, the Canadians refused to follow suit, seeing the old rules as useful shock absorbers.

...

Canada has also been shielded from the worst aspects of this crisis because its housing prices have not fluctuated as wildly as those in the United States. Home prices are down 25 percent in the United States, but only half as much in Canada. Why? Well, the Canadian tax code does not provide the massive incentive for overconsumption that the U.S. code does: interest on your mortgage isn't deductible up north. In addition, home loans in the United States are "non-recourse," which basically means that if you go belly up on a bad mortgage, it's mostly the bank's problem. In Canada, it's yours.

...

Canada has been remarkably responsible over the past decade or so. It has had 12 years of budget surpluses, and can now spend money to fuel a recovery from a strong position. The government has restructured the national pension system, placing it on a firm fiscal footing, unlike our own insolvent Social Security. Its health-care system is cheaper than America's by far (accounting for 9.7 percent of GDP, versus 15.2 percent here), and yet does better on all major indexes.

Newsweek

He's right about our banking system (but for the wrong reason). Various bank acts have removed alot of regulation in Canada too. (For example, unlike the US, Canadian banks have no government-regulated reserve requirement.) I think managers at Canadian banks care about their bank's reputation because they know that it is a valuable asset.

The US mortgage deduction is insane (Joe Clark wanted to introduce something similar here - for this reason alone, I had a small opinion of Clark). The legal nicety of non-recourse is another incorrect incentive.

As to the other points, they don't matter or they are inexact. The fact that our federal government had a "surplus" or that the CPP/QPP is "solvent" (meaningless terms in the context of North American governments) are not defining differences.

As to our health system, the author blithely ignores the horrendous cost imposed on Canadians because we must wait. This cost is not calculated anywhere and does not show up in GDP statistics or in health budgets. Yet, it's a real cost borne by ordinary Canadians.

Edited February 9, 2009 by August1991

Progressive Tory · February 9, 2009

We often criticize Canadian policies on this forum but this article is correct in some ways.

Our system is not perfect, but overall I think we're in better shape than many other countries. I also beleive that while our Health Care system may have some problems, it's nice to know that I can go to the doctor's without worrying how I'm going to pay for it.

One thing that will help us this time around, is that interest rates are so low. Last recession many people lost their homes because they got caught in mortgage interest rates of as much as 24%. The highest we paid was 15%, but only for a year.

We're still in for a rough ride, though.

BigAl · February 9, 2009

Our system is not perfect, but overall I think we're in better shape than many other countries. I also beleive that while our Health Care system may have some problems, it's nice to know that I can go to the doctor's without worrying how I'm going to pay for it.
One thing that will help us this time around, is that interest rates are so low. Last recession many people lost their homes because they got caught in mortgage interest rates of as much as 24%. The highest we paid was 15%, but only for a year.

We're still in for a rough ride, though.

I think it's very important to remember, even while we all sit around playing armchair political scientists, waxing philosophic on the problems with Canadian policy, that at the end of the day we are very fortunate in this part of the world. Canada isn't perfect -- nowhere is even close -- but we're a hell of a lot better off than we sometimes think.

Moonbox · February 9, 2009

Last recession many people lost their homes because they got caught in mortgage interest rates of as much as 24%. The highest we paid was 15%, but only for a year.
We're still in for a rough ride, though.

Yeah 15% mortgages was a nightmare for a lot of people. While the mortgage rates people are paying now should be MAXIMUM 6% at the worst, people at large are almost just as worse off now as they were in the 80's and 90's. Why? Well first off the average household income has not kept pace with inflation since back then and now people are carrying more unsecured debt.

I work in the business and believe me it is NOT AT ALL uncommon to meet people with $20-80,000 of credit card balances at 18+% interest. It's crazy. Over consumption!

guyser · February 9, 2009

As to our health system, the author blithely ignores the horrendous cost imposed on Canadians because we must wait.

It also ignored the US wait times and the same costs. I doubt there is much difference.

Alta4ever · February 9, 2009

It also ignored the US wait times and the same costs. I doubt there is much difference.

The US wait times atrn't nearly as long, why do you think canadians go to the US for treatment they wouldn't receive here until after they were dead

normanchateau · February 9, 2009

We often criticize Canadian policies on this forum but this article is correct in some ways.
Newsweek

He's right about our banking system.

Does the Newsweek article point out how Harper's 2006 budget opened the door to 40 year, zero down payment mortages in Canada which the chronically incompetent Harper didn't realize was a huge mistake until 2008?

http://www.comer.org/2009/harperleg.htm

“In the first half of this year, as the subprime mortgage crisis was exploding in the US, a contagion of US-style lending practices quietly crossed the border and infected Canada's previously prudent mortgage regime. The mushrooming of a Canadian version of subprime mortgages has gone largely unnoticed. Just yesterday, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty repeated the mantra that the government acted early to get rid of risky mortgages. What he and Prime Minister Stephen Harper do not explain, however, is that the expansion of zero-down, 40-year mortgages began with measures contained in the first Conservative budget in May, 2006.

“The new rules encouraged the entry of US players such as American International Group the worlds largest insurance company and Triad Guarantee Inc. of Winston-Salem, NC. Former Triad chief executive officer Mark Tonnesen, who spearheaded his company's aborted push into Canada, said the proliferation of high-risk mortgages could have been mitigated if Ottawa had been more watchful.

“Virtually unavailable in Canada two years ago, high-risk mortgages proliferated in 2007 and early 2008 and must now be shouldered by thousands of consumers at a time when the economy is sinking quickly and real estate prices are swooning. Long-term mortgages designed to help new-comers get into the housing market sooner are the most expensive in terms of interest costs, and least flexible when mortgage-holders cannot meet their payments and need extensions.”

guyser · February 9, 2009

The US wait times atrn't nearly as long, why do you think canadians go to the US for treatment they wouldn't receive here until after they were dead

Because they are , and they for the most part dont.

bush_cheney2004 · February 9, 2009

Because they are , and they for the most part dont.

Can we get just a little more data to support your contrary view? Please compare wait times for like procedures....start with something simple like medical imaging.

As for Canadians going to the US or abroad, it does happen believe it or not...sometimes at the behest of provinces without staff or facilities to handle the load.

jdobbin · February 9, 2009

The US wait times atrn't nearly as long, why do you think canadians go to the US for treatment they wouldn't receive here until after they were dead

Did your MP tell you that?

guyser · February 9, 2009

As for Canadians going to the US or abroad, it does happen believe it or not...sometimes at the behest of provinces without staff or facilities to handle the load.

Oh I believe it.

I also believe it works in reverse , Americans and people from abroad coming here for care.

Alta4ever · February 9, 2009

Did your MP tell you that?

No before my mother died of cancer we had tried to seek treatment for her in the US. But the government thought that the access to the waiting list was enough. She went terminal before they had her properly diagnosed, they did very little for her. Had the money been available we could have had her in to see a specailist in the US months before and had a treatment started before it got so severe.

So get bent Dobbin, had she had access and care in a timely fashion things may have turned out different.

Kep your smarmy self rightous, arrogant comments to yourself.

Alta4ever · February 9, 2009

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/article/body/...?issn=0820-3946

Wait-list weary Canadians seek treatment abroad

Smallc · February 9, 2009

At press time, MedSolution was in the process of sending 6 US patients to its partner hospitals in India and France for surger…

What were you trying to prove with that article again? Yeah, some wait times in Canada are still too long. Some provinces are making progress, others are having trouble. That doesn't mean that we should abandon the system that has almost certainly in part contributed to our long life span and quality of life. Canada does get a large percentage of health care right....as much as it pains some of you to admit it.

Alta4ever · February 9, 2009

What were you trying to prove with that article again? Yeah, some wait times in Canada are still too long. Some provinces are making progress, others are having trouble. That doesn't mean that we should abandon the system that has almost certainly in part contributed to our long life span and quality of life. Canada does get a large percentage of health care right....as much as it pains some of you to admit it.

Its all in respone to one smarmy poster who needs a link as proof of everything.

waldo · February 9, 2009

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/article/body/...?issn=0820-3946
Wait-list weary Canadians seek treatment abroad

Canadian Medical Association Journal - Volume 174, Issue 9 (April 2006) - Copyright © 2006 Canadian Medical Association

you were caught with your pants down earlier - the question to you was appropriate.

at this point, I'm not questioning wait times (Canada vs. U.S.); however, I would suggest that if you propose to broadly, without specificity, imply U.S. wait times are significantly better than Canadian wait times... you would be better served than to supply a linked article that includes the statement: "At press time, MedSolution was in the process of sending 6 US patients to its partner hospitals in India and France for surger(y)…"

blueblood · February 9, 2009

What were you trying to prove with that article again? Yeah, some wait times in Canada are still too long. Some provinces are making progress, others are having trouble. That doesn't mean that we should abandon the system that has almost certainly in part contributed to our long life span and quality of life. Canada does get a large percentage of health care right....as much as it pains some of you to admit it.

And what about our shortcomings? Why is it the typical Liberal way to say it's good enough and do everything half assed?

Smallc · February 9, 2009

And what about our shortcomings?

We continue to work on them, just as many provinces are doing. Complaining about it and calling it socialism certainly won't make it better.

Alta4ever · February 9, 2009

you were caught with your pants down earlier - the question to you was appropriate.
at this point, I'm not questioning wait times (Canada vs. U.S.); however, I would suggest that if you propose to broadly, without specificity, imply U.S. wait times are significantly better than Canadian wait times... you would be better served than to supply a linked article that includes the statement: "At press time, MedSolution was in the process of sending 6 US patients to its partner hospitals in India and France for surger(y)…"

If you check that thread you will find somebacking, it was not appropriate. But then again he is the kind of guy who hides behind rules and attitude.

guyser · February 9, 2009

Sorry to hear about your mom.

She went terminal before they had her properly diagnosed, they did very little for her

But it seems it was the Doc who was the problem , not any waiting time.

Alta4ever · February 9, 2009

Sorry to hear about your mom.
But it seems it was the Doc who was the problem , not any waiting time.

No it was not the doc, it was the time required to see the specalist.

guyser · February 9, 2009

And what about our shortcomings?

We need to work on them, nothing is perfect.

Why is it the typical Liberal way to say it's good enough and do everything half assed?

Its not Liberal anymore than it is Conservative. we do not do everything half assed or we would have half assed lifespans, and we dont.

guyser · February 9, 2009

No it was not the doc, it was the time required to see the specalist.

Ok.

One more question if you sont mind? are your folks living rural or major city?

Alta4ever · February 9, 2009

Ok.
One more question if you sont mind? are your folks living rural or major city?

At that time in a major city it was a few years ago.

Smallc · February 9, 2009

it was a few years ago.

I know its not much of a consolation, but in my province, I have seen great improvement in recent years. There are still many problems, but waiting lists for most things are either holding steady or getting shorter.