Progressive Tory Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The other day we were going into our favourite Chinese restaurant, which just happens to be beside a pet store. Someone opened their door and one of the resident cats escaped. I picked it up and told the kitty...'You don't want to go in there (meaning the restaurant), or you'll be today's special'. I immediately looked around, to see if there was anyone I would have offended. I felt horrible. However, should I have been arrested? I certainly didn't say it to incite hatred. For the most part, anyone who really is prejudice, probably says much worse; and those more liberal minded would have winced, but it wouldn't turn anyone against the Chinese people. In fact, I suspect that most people would not have really given it a second thought, except that I immediately put my hand to my mouth. Someone on another thread mentioned Warren Kinsella, Michael Ignatieff's chief of something, and his insulting comments to the Chinese people. I hadn't heard of it and really wasn't even sure who he was. I'm new to the Liberal Party, so am just now reading up on their Mps, etc. I've studied Kinsella and am not really sure whether I like him. I enjoy that he is often irreverant, which is proven by the name of his punk band. He's intelligent and a little anti-establishment, which seems off for someone with mainstream political aspirations; but I don't form opinions on anyone until I know all the facts. However, I read the insult he made, about BBQ's cats or something, but think it may have been blown out of proportion. The Conservatives certainly made a big thing of it, I suppose since it was nice not to be associated with another 'foot in the mouth' comment. Like Tom Lukiwski, Mr. Kinsella apologized, and like Harper with Lukiwski, Ignatieff did not fire him. What was surprising was the one person who actually spoke out in support: Conservative blogger Mark Steyn, who himself has been up on charges from the CHRC. "Look, every day on my blog, I insult groups of every ethnicity. Why? Well, because it's funny, dammit. I grew up watching Don Rickles. What can I say? But also because I don't accept the notion of Group Insult. Political correctness is a threat to national security, not to mention an encroachment on our ordinary lives, where we feel inclined to whisper constantly like we're living in the Soviet Union. Political correctness must be undermined at every opportunity if we wish to survive." His defense might be a little over the top, but are we going too far? The grandson we're raising has a rare genetic disorder (from our adopted daughter), so I guess is a member of the visible minority. A loud brash woman approached us the other day, and asked what she should call him... "disabled, challenged, developmentally delayed'?. I responded: "Call him Nicholas. That's what we call him." Maybe labelling people, under the guise of political correctness, is just a new form of prejudice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Terribly culturally inappropriate. Its dogs they eat, not cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Conservative blogger Mark Steyn, who himself has been up on charges from the CHRC. He has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Terribly culturally inappropriate.Its dogs they eat, not cats. LOL. Oh no. I've got a 40 pound Jack Russel who could look awfully mouth watering then. His name's Spike but we've nicknamed him 'the little pork roast'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in KW Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I immediately looked around, to see if there was anyone I would have offended. I felt horrible. However, should I have been arrested? Maybe labelling people, under the guise of political correctness, is just a new form of prejudice. Of course you shouldn't have been arrested. You're even allowed to be disgusted by the fact that some people eat cats. You're allowed to have cultural norms and opinions. Calling all Chinese people cat-eaters? I'm not sure.... It's like Muslims calling all westerners pig-eaters. However, let's say those statements are both true. In the west, we eat pigs. In the east, they eat cats. We're both disgusting to someone. That doesn't bother me. I don't feel that I have to enjoy the notion of eating cats to prove that I accept Chinese people. I can both like them and feel disgusted by their cat-eating ways. Labelling or stereotyping is not prejudice. But it is an un-intelligent way to approach things. The sort of folks who define other cultures by what they eat, are probably defining them in an un-intelligent and derogatory way. Labelling is cheap, and distracts us from the kind of debate that should be going on. Labelling tends to be a tactic of those who don't bother to think for themselves. Even though I will happily eat a piece of well-cooked pig, when i hear a middle eastern guy talking disgustedly about pig-eaters, it feels like an insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 He has? Yeah. Something to do with an article defending Conrad Black and attacking Muslims. I think I read it on Brad Trost's website. I'll try to find it. Maybe I'm mixing him up with someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yeah. Something to do with an article defending Conrad Black and attacking Muslims. I think I read it on Brad Trost's website. I'll try to find it. Maybe I'm mixing him up with someone else. I can't beleive Kinsella would considering his stance on Ezra levant, and what was happening with HRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Of course you shouldn't have been arrested. You're even allowed to be disgusted by the fact that some people eat cats. You're allowed to have cultural norms and opinions. Labelling tends to be a tactic of those who don't bother to think for themselves. It certainly does depend on the context. I think it should also depend on the environment. If you're with a small group of friends who know that you are not prejudice, and you make a joke like that, it's not a problem. However, if you are speaking to a crowd, where your opinion matters, that's a different story. If young guys are fooling around, wrestling a bit, and one say says "get off me, you fag.", that doesn't mean he's homophobic. I prefer to keep my contempt for those who deserve it. But then I'm only 4' 10", and do prefer you call me 'vertically challenged' and not 'short'. Keep that in mind. I just hate all the labels. My grandson was a little confused but is deaf so I interpret in sign for him. When he looked at me, I just signed that the lady thought he was cute. He smiled. He is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 He has? Unless I have the wrong guy, there's quite a bit out there. "We further learned that the investigative report conducted by Sandy Kovak of the CHRC stated the Steyn/MacLeans case met the Hallmarks of Hate. This would seem to be the defacto threshold level the commission uses. As such, it met the threshold that the Canadian Muslim community was concerned about. Additionally we learned that the investigator’s report recommended that the Steyn/MacLeans case be prosecuted via a Tribunal hearing. For the public who was following the Steyn/MalCleans saga, it is well known that prosecution did not follow. The claim was rejected at the Commissioners level in the CHRC." I didn't read the original article and probably wouldn't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I agree with most of what you said. I went to a sushi restaurant a few weeks ago called Niko Niko. I asked the Japanese waitress what that meant. She laughed and told me that "Niko" means cat, and that my BBQ eel was in fact kitten. She promptly then explained that Niko Niko (written like that) actually means "A bubbling sensation" or something and that I'm actually eating real sea food. Most people don't care about a few offhand racial jokes. They're generally just jokes. People need to understand words and statements in the context that they were presented. If it was just in fun and joking, then leave it at that. If it was inconsiderate, rude or hateful, THEN get upset but otherwise lighten up. It's the people that can't or refuse to distinguish that have their underwear all bunched up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Maybe I'm mixing him up with someone else. No just confused as it seems, and Steyn himself wants it to be seen , that has been charged , but he hasnt . Not that I could find anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I can't beleive Kinsella would considering his stance on Ezra levant, and what was happening with HRC. I don't really know enough about the feud to form an opinion. It's just that I think the whole anti-Chinese thing got blown out of proportion. When the media exploded over the tape where Tom Lukiwski made his remarks about gays and dirt under their fingernails, I thought the reaction was a little silly. He was with a group of friends, fellow campaign office workers. He wasn't making a speech. I was more concerned with the fact that he had once been the General Manager of the Saskatchewan Conservatives where several of their cabinet ministers ended up in prison. I didn't even know that till then. Remember, Stephen Harper himself said in 2001: “West of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into Western Canadian society.” Broad based statements like that can be more damaging than cat jokes. He was being serious and it legitmately offended many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 It's the people that can't or refuse to distinguish that have their underwear all bunched up. Exactly. If we sweat the small stuff, how can we recognize what is real hatred? Do you know that the word 'squaw' actually means the female body part ...4 letters starting with 'c' .... not appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck U. Farlie Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Why would anyone take offense to something that is true? Chinese do eat dog, cat, and pretty well anything else that moves... that is fact. While not in China, I have eaten dog in Manado and bat and rat in Vientiane - big deal, they are just animals. As I type this I am sitting beside a Chinese woman... she verifies that many people there eat cat and she takes no offense to that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Touch my cat and die. -------------- Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. ---Robert A. Heinlein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Touch my cat and die. Aw come on, can I have at least a bite? I will bring a nice red to wash it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Remember, Stephen Harper himself said in 2001: “West of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into Western Canadian society.” Broad based statements like that can be more damaging than cat jokes. He was being serious and it legitmately offended many people. Misquoted statements like that can be more damaging than cat jokes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 When I provide a quote in my posts, I feel it is just common courtesy to the other members to provide a link. It also helps credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85RZ500 Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 He has? Yep he was, everything was dropped rightfully so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yep he was, everything was dropped rightfully so. What case? I d like to read about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGreenthumb Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Touch my cat and die.-------------- Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat. ---Robert A. Heinlein LoL I just have to say it.........I've never tasted cat but I've eaten a lot of pussies! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) As I type this I am sitting beside a Chinese woman... she verifies that many people there eat cat and she takes no offense to that fact. Yuk. But you're right. The whole Warren Kinsella thing got blown out of proportion. I saw the Conservative MPs who were eating at the Chinese Restaurant where the cat joke was made. I was hoping one of them would start coughing, and I'd be able to say: "Oh look. He's hacking up a fur ball.' Edited February 5, 2009 by Progressive Tory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Touch my cat and die. Why are you saving it for later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progressive Tory Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 When I provide a quote in my posts, I feel it is just common courtesy to the other members to provide a link. It also helps credibility. What link were you looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Why would anyone take offense to something that is true?Chinese do eat dog, cat, and pretty well anything else that moves... that is fact. And Blacks eat a lot of fried chicken, but I doubt it'll be offered up to Obama for lunch when he gets to Ottawa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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