Muslims in Canada want Sharia Law!

[kimmy]

I'll tell what this pseudo terror war is about. It's about the bored and modern corporate master that longs to show that he is as much a man sitting in his sterile boardroom as the primative AK totting Taliban. Also - our western social engineers who are now projecting globally - are waging a war on tribalism - on the family - on the traditional non-compliant male.. They want to smash - the tribe (but not theirs) - they want to casterate the males (but not themselves) - they want do dominate the planet and you can not have that with people who swear loyality to God and not the state - with men who are so proud they refuse to be enslaved - So the west - knows - that to achieve there globalist facist state...they must destroy all tribes (families) - they do it domestically and abroad. This is the war on terror - they are terrified of any man with balls!

Oleg, you keep writing about how men in our culture are having their nuts taken away. If you admire these men so much for being models of manliness, you really ought to go join up. What an awesome place. A place where a man can tell his wife to get back in the kitchen, and she won't come out... ever! A place where men can take cheating wives to the rock quarry instead of divorce court! A place where real men can still drive a bulldozer over fags! This sounds like the place for you, Oleg. You should go. You'd be looked up to as some sort of sage or guru, I imagine. Hopefully you'll be able to recruit like-minded Canadian men to go with you.

You could even start a movement. "AfMANistan! Where men are still men! The last place on earth where you can keep your balls!"

-k

[Mr.Canada]

Oleg, you keep writing about how men in our culture are having their nuts taken away. If you admire these men so much for being models of manliness, you really ought to go join up. What an awesome place. A place where a man can tell his wife to get back in the kitchen, and she won't come out... ever! A place where men can take cheating wives to the rock quarry instead of divorce court! A place where real men can still drive a bulldozer over fags! This sounds like the place for you, Oleg. You should go. You'd be looked up to as some sort of sage or guru, I imagine. Hopefully you'll be able to recruit like-minded Canadian men to go with you.

You could even start a movement. "AfMANistan! Where men are still men! The last place on earth where you can keep your balls!"

-k

Oleg appears to have two personalities. One is conservative and one is activist(NDP supporter), hrmm maybe three as sometimes he appears moderate as well. I thought he was supposed to close his account...

[Michael Hardner]

Mr. Canada,

FACT - 55% of Muslim women and 59% of Muslims aged 18 to 29 want Sharia Law in Canada. These are young educated people who were most likely born in Canada.

A little bit of statistical slight of hand there, but I don't buy it.

If you want to talk about the opinions of those born in Canada then show us a statistic that speaks to that number.

Otherwise, don't "most likely" us into false conclusions.

Thank you.

Furthermore, I have already asked for comparative statistics, which you haven't provided. I would also like some idea of how this number (for Muslims) has changed with time.

If you're really interested in the facts, then get this information please. (And, by the way, you're not interested in facts, you arrive on the scene with your conclusion ready and only show us facts that support them)

[Mr.Canada]

Doesn't change the fact that 6 out of 10 young Muslims in Canada want Sharia Law.

[GostHacked]

Doesn't change the fact that 6 out of 10 young Muslims in Canada want Sharia Law.

All of them could want it, but it will be our government that gives it to them. Are you afraid of the Muslims that want it, or the politicians who will give it to them?

Where would you put the blame?

[CANADIEN]

Lets look at the evidence of the rise of Sharia Law in Canada.

I'll be happy to look at it when you provide evidence of that happening, that is evidence that sharia is reconized in any way, shape or form as a basis for any civil or criminal proceedings in Canada. What we have here is evidence on the NUMBER of people who want some or all aspects of Sharia to be recognize. I am sure you can see the difference.

FACT - 53% of Muslims think sharia law should be the Law in Canada

Meaning there would be no other law. Let's compare this with what you wrote on your first posting:

In particular, 53 per cent of Muslims think sharia law should be recognized as a legal basis for settling family disputes, while an overwhelming majority of the general population disagrees. Of those surveyed, 55 per cent of Muslim women and 59 per cent of Muslims aged 18 to 29 indicated their preference for sharia law. Remember, this survey was conducted one year after the Ontario sharia controversy.

Once again, not exactly the same.

FACT - 55% of Muslim women and 59% of Muslims aged 18 to 29 want Sharia Law in Canada. These are young educated people who were most likely born in Canada.

FACT - 45% of Canadian Muslims possess a university degree (or higher), compared with 33% of Canadian population.

This alone proves that these people don't share the same affection for Canada that our founders did. This isn't the Canada our founders had in mind at Confederation.

Source

Interesting article, isn't it? In particular the parts you DO NOt mention. Like the one where 94% of the people surveyed said they were proud to be Canadians. Or the one where a majority said that they thought that Muslim women lived a better life here.

Edited February 4, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Mr.Canada]

2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.

Intentional homicide

2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69

Infanticide,70 fratricide, parricide, and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of the natural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public health cannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority.

SOURCE

The RCC doesn't accept such things, Islam does but the RCC doesn't so be careful with the Muslim demands they make on our peaceful society.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[JB Globe]

There is no indication that Muslims are integrating.

There is every indication that Muslims are integrating.

In fact, if you examine the survey you'll see that the highest support for Sharia law comes from younger Muslims, the ones most likely to have been born here.

That same survey also says that 94% of Muslims ARE PROUD TO BE CANADIAN, quote: "citing Canadian policies of democracy, multiculturalism, peace and humanitarianism as sources of their pride." Talk about selective reading on your part.

Clearly support for Sharia Law doesn't automatically translate into non-integration. This issue is simply not as black and white as you're making it out to be. This apparent paradox (support for Sharia Law yet a strong love of Canada) is actually a positive sign, it demonstrates integration - it's gradual, just like it has been with other immigrant groups in the past. Integration is a complex issue both from a policy perspective and from a personal perspective.

I don't know if you ever personally had to reconcile conflicting aspects of your identity and society, but maybe you have, and hopefully you at least know some people who have and you've talked about it with them. If you haven't, I think it would help you to understand the situation a lot of Canadian Muslims find themselves in if you would be more empathetic and really hear what they're saying when they talk about what it's like to try and find yourself while being Canadian and Muslim in the current social climate.

[JB Globe]

This alone proves that these people don't share the same affection for Canada that our founders did. This isn't the Canada our founders had in mind at Confederation.

Than where are all the posts where you throw a hissy fit about Jewish Family Law?

Yet again, as in the post about "honour killings" you don't actually care about the bigger issue at hand (domestic violence, or in this case - ALL KINDS of religious family law) you are only using this as a vehicle to release all that pent up bigotry against Islam.

And again - the stats you cite about under-30's supporting Sharia Law is for all under-30 Muslims, regardless of if they immigrated or were born here - so your statement is actually false.

Edited February 5, 2009 by JB Globe

[JB Globe]

The RCC doesn't accept such things, Islam does.

Islam (as in, all forms of Islam) accepts regular, old murder as an acceptable practice? Really?

Do you have something to back that up?

Please don't tell us you expect us to believe it "because I said so" - especially with your track-record.

[cybercoma]

Let me help by quoting from the Qu'ran:

4:29 O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.

5:32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

Edited February 5, 2009 by cybercoma

[CANADIEN]

SOURCE

The RCC doesn't accept such things, Islam does but the RCC doesn't so be careful with the Muslim demands they make on our peaceful society.

You can quote the Koran on that?

[Oleg Bach]

You can quote the Koran on that?

Here is the problem. That fat old white cat lawyers who have held control of the judicary for the last 50 years like the immigration for supplying cheap compliant labour for their buisness concerns...they just did not expect that these measily immigrants would encroach on their domain ---- the sacred and money generating court room. This is one of the over sights that Britian experenced with their not well thought our immigration policy - There white elite thought that more dumb immigrants would behave like the docile Christians they were use to that generated them wealth - little did they expect the hords to take over the place!

[Kitchener]

44 per cent of Canadian Muslims believe Canada should accommodate their traditional beliefs, while 81 per cent of the general population thinks immigrants should adopt mainstream Canadian beliefs.

In particular, 53 per cent of Muslims think sharia law should be recognized as a legal basis for settling family disputes, while an overwhelming majority of the general population disagrees. Of those surveyed, 55 per cent of Muslim women and 59 per cent of Muslims aged 18 to 29 indicated their preference for sharia law. Remember, this survey was conducted one year after the Ontario sharia controversy.

Source

So as it turns out in this recent poll t hat most Canadians want immigrants to adapt to Canadian ways of life instead of us accommodating them to no end. I'm personally shocked by this but am happy about it. It shows just how out of touch the Canadian Federal, provincial and city government are to real Canadians. Yet they continue to push for us to accommodate them when 81% of don't think we should.

Actually, since recognizing sharia law as a basis for settling family disputes is entirely consistent with adopting mainstream Canadian beliefs, it shows only your obsessive-compulsive hysteria about Islam and poor reading comprehension. (Ontario recognized Orthodox Jewish family law for over a decade. Did that mean that Jews just weren't adopting mainstream Canadian beliefs?)

As we can see the Canadian Muslims are quite educated and proud Canadians. This proves that educated people who love Canada can support dangerous even deadly Sharia Law. Canadians need to understand how dangerous this is.

It's perfectly clear what the most dangerous attitudes expressed in your post are.

[Oleg Bach]

It is just a matter of time when systems of law that contain the element of honour and justice will upsurp our existing system. Sharia law and others similar will become popular - the only way to get around this is to reform our existing system. But we are to proud and arrogantly dellude to even consider that we have a corrupt and monopolistic system...That's a problem. When you have a family law system where the poor man must hand money over to his adulterous wife as she is blowing her once clandestine boy toy - and that "support" money makes it's way into the hands of the seducing interloping male - where in fact we reward horrible behaviour..not to mention the crimminal courts - where a Crown will admit to convicting an innocent man for brownie points and because it is "policy".. and the litigative courts where the defendant who is connected to the government can with hold and refuse to disclose all documents and win a case with a piece of paper that they hid till the last moment - well - what can I say? Take it to the Supreme Court Of Canada - and they cower, taking protective measures and hire a law firm to spin them a ruling - that is not even their own - what the hells that?

[WIP]

It is just a matter of time when systems of law that contain the element of honour and justice will upsurp our existing system. Sharia law and others similar will become popular - the only way to get around this is to reform our existing system.

Yes, we need to base our laws and ethics on ancient rules designed for desert nomads rather than using a system based on shared values that can be adjusted, when needed, to provide better outcomes.

[Progressive Tory]

Codling the immigrant vote? Maybe.. Will you vote for me next election? I am hoping to topple the Conservative government.. Apparently, I am part of the Socialist Party of Canada.

Me too. Just not sure how to codle.

[Progressive Tory]

There were no more 'suttee' funerals in that community.

That's a good one. Culture is one thing, but you have to follow the laws of the land. We would if we went to India or anywhere else.

[Progressive Tory]

If I rape a women I'll go to jail. If a native does so he could go to a sentencing circle which would keep him out of jail.

I believe that would only happen if he raped a women from his own Nation. Wouldn't it? If he raped any other woman, he would have to face a trial the same as everyone else.

Natives regard rape as a very serious charge. He may prefer jail.

[Progressive Tory]

Nowadays the only thing we have in common with these new immigrants is that we're all humans.

If you were really a Christian, that would be enough. Think about where Jesus was born. What colour do you think his skin would be? Not white.

[Progressive Tory]

Conservative MP David Sweet started the Canadian branch of a group called Promise Keepers. His website used to say that, until people looked it up, then was changed to simply starting a non-profit organization.

For those of you who don't know, Promise Keepers is an all male Evangelical society who believe that only men can lead, since all of Jesus's disciples were men, and that women in turn must follow. They tell their members that they must be the head of their household. They also order them not to simply ask for this, but to take it.

What does that mean? Do they beat their wives for it? The vague command could be interpreted in many ways, but certainly doesn't support women's rights.

Should David Sweet be allowed to vote on any women's issues, when he has these preconceived notions? Google David Sweet and Promise Keepers; then google the U.S. parent group. Militant Pro-Lifers in a 'male only' organization. Scarey stuff.

[kimmy]

Conservative MP David Sweet started the Canadian branch of a group called Promise Keepers. His website used to say that, until people looked it up, then was changed to simply starting a non-profit organization.

For those of you who don't know, Promise Keepers is an all male Evangelical society who believe that only men can lead, since all of Jesus's disciples were men, and that women in turn must follow. They tell their members that they must be the head of their household. They also order them not to simply ask for this, but to take it.

What does that mean? Do they beat their wives for it? The vague command could be interpreted in many ways, but certainly doesn't support women's rights.

Should David Sweet be allowed to vote on any women's issues, when he has these preconceived notions? Google David Sweet and Promise Keepers; then google the U.S. parent group. Militant Pro-Lifers in a 'male only' organization. Scarey stuff.

"Militant pro-lifers"? Have they taken up arms?

Promise Keepers is not men banding together to encourage each other to beat up women. Promise Keepers is men banding together to encourage each other to quit being irresponsible slobs.

I don't care for conservative evangelicals either, but the hyperbole of your rhetoric is not helping your argument.

-k

[cybercoma]

Yes, we need to base our laws and ethics on ancient rules designed for desert nomads rather than using a system based on shared values that can be adjusted, when needed, to provide better outcomes.

I like laws based on vagueries like "values." It makes society more "interesting." Don't you think?

[DogOnPorch]

I like laws based on vagueries like "values." It makes society more "interesting." Don't you think?

Indeed. Especially when when we're one of the few countries to actually practice eugenics...errrr....multiculturalism and have discrimination written into the charter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Employment_Equity_Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_minorities

----------------------------------------------------

Any colour - so long as it's black.

---Henry Ford

Edited February 11, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[Progressive Tory]

"Militant pro-lifers"? Have they taken up arms?

Promise Keepers is not men banding together to encourage each other to beat up women. Promise Keepers is men banding together to encourage each other to quit being irresponsible slobs.

Promise Keepers Pose A Real Threat

"The problem is that this hottest religious right marketing tool since televangelism portrays women's equality as the source of society's ills. The Promise Keepers seem to think women will be so thrilled that men are promising to take "responsibility" in our families that we'll take a back seat in this and every other arena of our lives."

"Yet the religious right pantheon behind Promise Keepers consists of men who think the Republican party is too liberal. Founder Bill McCartney cut his political teeth speaking at rallies of the violent anti-abortion group Operation Rescue. In impassioned speeches — which are especially chilling when viewed on videotape — McCartney and company have said things like: men must be leaders and women "responders," lesbians and gays are "stark, raving mad," abortion is a "second Civil War" and participants must "take back the nation for Christ.""

"Lurk online in a Promise Keepers chat group, as one journalist did, and see if you, too, don't note that abortion is the number one topic — not a woman's right to choose but an abortion opponent's right to kill women and doctors." That's pretty militant to me.

Christian Soldiers for Theocracy

"In the world of Promise Keepers, men are to submit to a cell group that in turn is closely controlled by a national hierarchy. Most important, women are to submit absolutely to their husbands or fathers."

"The manifesto of the movement is Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper...Evangelist Tony Evans, in his contributing essay, explains how to deal with women.

"The first thing you do," Brown explains, "is sit down with your wife and say something like this: `Honey, I've made a terrible mistake. I've given you my role. I gave up leading this family, and I forced you to take my place. Now I must reclaim that role.' Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I'm not suggesting that you ask for your role back, I'm urging you to take it back."

Operation Rescue's Survival In Doubt -- Anti-Abortion Violence, Legal Defeats Hurt Fundamentalist Christian Movement

"WASHINGTON - Operation Rescue, a militant anti-abortion group that mobilized a segment of Christian fundamentalists and brought the tactics of civil disobedience to the conservative cause, is on the verge of collapse as a significant political movement."

I did not need to use exaggeration to prove my point. This group hit my radar several years ago. So I repeat. As Canadian founder of the Promise Keepers, should David Sweet be allowed to vote on women's issues? He's not a Muslim. He's a white male Christian.