Cannabis to lose weight?

[BigAl]

The study says that isn't true. Did you read it? Also I bet 100% of them say alcohol because alcohol is in 90% of the cases used before pot. BE CONSISTENT.

Agreed. We live in a hypocritical society that allows and in some cases promotes the ingestion of harmful chemicals (cigarettes, alcohol, McDonalds)

and crucifies those who colour outside the lines and use a "drug" that's been growing naturally on our planet forever. I don't smoke weed myself, never liked the effect it had on me personally, but I have done some pretty serious chemicals in my life, I *do* drink and I *do* smoke cigarettes to this day, and therefore I figure I have no right whatsoever to start preaching from the mount about the evils of marijuana. We have more important matters at hand, I think. You know, like the fags who want to get married (I'm kidding of course; there *is* a war going on after all; maybe we'd best pay attention to THAT rather than some kid with a joint or a couple of guys who want to get hitched).

[Ontario Loyalist]

Yeah, I suppose you would lose weight by becoming such a stoner moronic-idiot that you would forget to eat, perhaps...

[guyser]

Yeah, I suppose you would lose weight by becoming such a stoner moronic-idiot that you would forget to eat, perhaps...

You're just jealous you dont have an excuse.

[normanchateau]

And you do understand that at least some of the causes of depression have biological origins that relate to the chemistry of the brain? (And in those cases drugs that affect Seratonin and dopamine levels may be the best solution.)

Serotonin and dopamine are not the only neurotransmitters involved in depression. There is a growing number of published studies showing that endocannabinoids, the natural cannabinoids produced by the brain, are reduced in clinical depression. Stimulating cannabinoid receptors, either with endocannabinoids or marijuana, reduces depression. Here's one of many references on this topic:

http://biblioteca.universia.net/html_bura/...d/31474228.html

Furthermore, there are published studies which now show that serotonin and dopamine act via cannabinoid receptors to play a role in depression.

Furthermore, dopamine regulates brain levels of endocannabinoids:

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/306/3/880

It often astounds me just how little people know about brain endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors, including even those people who promote the benefits of marijuana.

It's a good thing ignorant men like Harper don't know about endocannabinoids. He'd want to criminalize them.

[segnosaur]

Serotonin and dopamine are not the only neurotransmitters involved in depression. There is a growing number of published studies showing that endocannabinoids, the natural cannabinoids produced by the brain, are reduced in clinical depression. Stimulating cannabinoid receptors, either with endocannabinoids or marijuana, reduces depression.

Thanks for the update.

(Note that I only brought up the issue when DrGreenthumb suggested that other drugs may not be good because they 'altered brain chemistry'... I just wanted to point out that even marijuana alters brain chemistry.)

It may very well be that depression can be handled with some of the ingredients in marijuana. However, I'd suggest that if its going to be used to handle clinical depression, a better option would be to isolate/synthesize the active ingredient (much as Asprin is derived from willow bark.) That way, dosage can be better controlled, and any unexpected side effects can be reduced or eliminated.

Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that marijuana should be illegal... just that if people are going to praise the medical benefits, it should be done in a proper environment.

[normanchateau]

It may very well be that depression can be handled with some of the ingredients in marijuana. However, I'd suggest that if its going to be used to handle clinical depression, a better option would be to isolate/synthesize the active ingredient (much as Asprin is derived from willow bark.) That way, dosage can be better controlled, and any unexpected side effects can be reduced or eliminated.

I agree completely and you might be interested in knowing that there are pharmaceutical companies right now engaged in clinical trials employing exactly the approach that you advocate. Other companies have synthesized drugs, known as cannabinoid agonists, which stimulate brain cannabinoid receptors. Those drugs act in a manner similar to THC, the most psychoactive component of marijuana.

[Wilber]

There may be some medical benefits to cannabis itself but anyone who thinks inhaling the smoke from anything is healthy is an idiot. Smoking tobacco also kills appetite. Aside from that, carry on.

[kimmy]

I can only speak from my own experience and that was a LONG time ago! Back when we lusted after a Janis Joplin type of woman and would have considered a Paris Hilton type as just an airhead skank.

I think everybody considers Paris Hilton an airhead skank. However, I'm at a continual loss to understand the appeal of Janis Joplin. It's because she didn't wear a bra, right?

As to the subject at hand...

It's simply an enjoyable intoxicant.

I agree completely.

I have a friend who is a casual user of marijuana, and I have smoked with her a number of times... probably around 10 times total in my life. It is a pleasant, relaxing experience.

The negatives I can think of:

-I'm not a smoker, so inhaling smoke doesn't come easily to me. There's an awful lot of coughing involved for me.

-I hate smelling like marijuana smoke afterward.

-weird feeling in tummy.

-once had too much, or combined it with alcohol, or somehow did something wrong, and became highly disoriented. It was a little scary.

Contrasted with alcohol... I'm a mean drunk. (I'm pretty damned mean even when I'm sober, for that matter...) I've had to cut back on alcohol a lot because it tends to put me in a belligerent state of mind. Marijuana is the complete opposite.

Although nowadays I have an actual day job, I still waitress evenings at a club, and have done for years. I think everybody who has spent any amount of time at clubs would agree: you have no end of trouble with drunk people, but you seldom have any trouble with marijuana users. I would think that if we were comparing the two by the harm they cause, marijuana would be legal and alcohol would be illegal. If everybody suddenly quit drinking alcohol, incidence of violence would drop dramatically. (of course, it would also put me out of one of my jobs...)

An aside... has anybody here spent any amount of time with meth users? I sometimes encounter meth users, and find them to be really creepy. Their motor control and speech centers in their brains seem to be considerably damaged, and I'm wondering how permanent the harm is.

-k

[blueblood]

only reason why i think the status quo should remain, the meth heads would be wanting their stuff legal too.

In all fairness I am a status quo person, had I lived in the twenties when this crusade to prohibit things came about, I would be just as PO'd upsetting the status quo wasting money on passing legislation. That being said, I'd have no problem with booze being illegal in today's world as well.

I just think its the lesser of two evils, and the lax enforcement of the pot rules is fine where it is.

I think legalization with intense regulations would result in something similar to the bootleg cigarette industry. From what I hear prices are fairly cheap compared to getting liquored.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-quote of entire previous post

[BigAl]

An aside... has anybody here spent any amount of time with meth users? I sometimes encounter meth users, and find them to be really creepy. Their motor control and speech centers in their brains seem to be considerably damaged, and I'm wondering how permanent the harm is.

-k

Crystal methamphetamine is a nasty, nasty drug. Depending on use I've seen guys (and girls) go from merely amped up (like you would be on any amphetamine) to violent to...the only word I can think of is "broken". It's extremely addictive and it does terrible things to your nervous system. To say nothing of the fact that it's incredibly easy to cut with other chemicals that are harmful but cheaper...in some small Ontario towns it's common practice for dealers to cut a half-oz with dishwashing detergent or any other white crystalline substance to stretch their selling supply (when you consider that most meth addicts don't really realize the difference). I'm no prude, but I wouldn't recommend meth to anybody, for any reason. There are better drugs out there.

[Wilber]

Crystal methamphetamine is a nasty, nasty drug.

Just look at some of the stuff that is used to make it. Drain and concrete cleaners, acetone, methanol, kerosene, starter fluid, paint thinner and lye to name a few.

[veggiedawg]

I'm sure there have been studies done by reputable companies as to the effects of marijuana and actual weight loss. It's been proven that the drug has many medical ingredients and uses that help in a variety of diseases. It's definitely better than a lot of synthesized drugs being used today. I personally can't smoke it anymore due to the way my body reacts to it but I've heard and even seen it help others.

At this point you can't deny it's pro's out weigh it's cons, and trying to find the right way to govern it's use is the only thing left to do.

IMO.

[Wild Bill]

I think everybody considers Paris Hilton an airhead skank. However, I'm at a continual loss to understand the appeal of Janis Joplin. It's because she didn't wear a bra, right?

Well, part of it was the times. Janice was no knockout beauty but she sang with such passion! I still get chills up my spine when I listen to some of her songs.

It's the same thing with singers like Etta James, Billie Holiday and the like. They are just so REAL, as compared to the 'plastic' of a Paris Hilton or a Britney Spears!

"Plastic' was a word we used a lot in the late 60's to describe something that was merely a false facade or a cheap, glitzy imitation of something real.

Does that not describe Paris Hilton?

As for the bra, believe it or not the braless look rapidly became the norm to the point where we all took it for granted. I remember some friends and I at McMaster U. watching a girl walk across the campus and wondering why she looked strange to us. We finally realized it was because she was WEARING a bra!

Like being at a nude beach. Those who DON"T strip down stand out! (If you'll pardon the pun!)

[noahbody]

Contrasted with alcohol... I'm a mean drunk. (I'm pretty damned mean even when I'm sober, for that matter...) I've had to cut back on alcohol a lot because it tends to put me in a belligerent state of mind.

I'd pay a lot of money to see Mr. Canada drive a drunken Kimmy around in order to point out druggies and homosexuals who gave up on Jesus. That would be priceless.

[DrGreenthumb]

Thanks for the update.

(Note that I only brought up the issue when DrGreenthumb suggested that other drugs may not be good because they 'altered brain chemistry'... I just wanted to point out that even marijuana alters brain chemistry.)

It may very well be that depression can be handled with some of the ingredients in marijuana. However, I'd suggest that if its going to be used to handle clinical depression, a better option would be to isolate/synthesize the active ingredient (much as Asprin is derived from willow bark.) That way, dosage can be better controlled, and any unexpected side effects can be reduced or eliminated.

Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that marijuana should be illegal... just that if people are going to praise the medical benefits, it should be done in a proper environment.

Oh give it up you said that cannabis was not "treatment", because it didn't treat the underlying issues regarding depression. I DO know how the endocannabinoid system works. I also know that Cannabis use effects the levels of dopamine. I also know that is not ALL it does. There is no reason to treat pharma products as legitimate depression medicines, while discounting cannabis.

The PHARMA companies already have isolated THC, thing is people report that it doesn't work as well as natural WHOLE cannabis which have several beneficial cannabinoids, like CBD that reduce inflammation reduce the "high" and increase feelings of well being.

[BigAl]

Just look at some of the stuff that is used to make it. Drain and concrete cleaners, acetone, methanol, kerosene, starter fluid, paint thinner and lye to name a few.

Oh yes...nightmare substance. I understand the appeal of the effect, but it's just not worth it at the end of the day...I'm no prude, nor am I an anti-drug activist in any way, shape or form -- but seriously folks, there are better drugs to do. Far, far better.

[segnosaur]

Oh give it up you said that cannabis was not "treatment", because it didn't treat the underlying issues regarding depression.

In your previous posts, you talked about "contemplating problems", and "introspection and self acceptance". These are not the way you would describe handling actual clinical depression (ones involving biological causes). If its not a chemical problem, then using marijuana is not necessarily going to help those types of problems.

In your initial posts, you DID NOT discuss clinical depression resulting from biology.

I DO know how the endocannabinoid system works. I also know that Cannabis use effects the levels of dopamine.

Really? Then why exactly did you criticize "pharma products designed to mess with your brains seratonin and dopamine levels"?

After all, if you knew marijuana affected dopamine levels, then you shouldn't have been criticizing mainstream pharmaceuticals for doing the same thing.

I also know that is not ALL it does. There is no reason to treat pharma products as legitimate depression medicines, while discounting cannabis.

Actually I've given reasons.

Namely, raw marijuana (in smoked form) doesn't provide consistent dosage, and may contain chemicals that have unexpected (and unwanted) side effects.

The PHARMA companies already have isolated THC, thing is people report that it doesn't work as well as natural WHOLE cannabis...

Ever hear of the phrase "double blind study"?

which have several beneficial cannabinoids, like CBD that reduce inflammation reduce the "high" and increase feelings of well being.

If a person is not suffering from inflammation, then why would you want to introduce chemicals that actually affect a problem they don't have?

[normanchateau]

A British company, GW Pharmaceuticals, is currently conducting clinical trials on the efficacy of a combination of THC and CBD. Apparently the combination increases clinical efficacy while reducing the adverse effects of the individual components. Here's an abstract of a review article by Russo and Guy, GW Pharmaceutical researchers, which was published in Medical Hypotheses in 2006, Volume 66, pages 234-246:

"This study reviews the current knowledge of physiological and clinical effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD) and presents a rationale for their combination in pharmaceutical preparations. Cannabinoid and vanilloid receptor effects as well as non-receptor mechanisms are explored, such as the capability of THC and CBD to act as anti-inflammatory substances independent of cyclo-oxygenase (COX) inhibition. CBD is demonstrated to antagonise some undesirable effects of THC including intoxication, sedation and tachycardia, while contributing analgesic, anti-emetic, and anti-carcinogenic properties in its own right. In modern clinical trials, this has permitted the administration of higher doses of THC, providing evidence for clinical efficacy and safety for cannabis based extracts in treatment of spasticity, central pain and lower urinary tract symptoms in multiple sclerosis, as well as sleep disturbances, peripheral neuropathic pain, brachial plexus avulsion symptoms, rheumatoid arthritis and intractable cancer pain. Prospects for future application of whole cannabis extracts in neuroprotection, drug dependency, and neoplastic disorders are further examined. The hypothesis that the combination of THC and CBD increases clinical efficacy while reducing adverse events is supported."

To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies to date which have compared whole cannabis extracts with the THC/CBD combination on any health-promoting measure.

[segnosaur]

A British company, GW Pharmaceuticals, is currently conducting clinical trials on the efficacy of a combination of THC and CBD. Apparently the combination increases clinical efficacy while reducing the adverse effects of the individual components.

...

To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies to date which have compared whole cannabis extracts with the THC/CBD combination on any health-promoting measure.

Ah but what value are proper scientific studies when instead you can listen to the anecdotes of a dozen pot heads?

(sarcasm intended)

[Alta4ever]

when you spend you money on drugs how can you afford to eat, so guess what you don't eat you loose weight.......have fun with that one greenthumb

[Oleg Bach]

when you spend you money on drugs how can you afford to eat, so guess what you don't eat you loose weight.......have fun with that one greenthumb

When you are on a limited income - every pack of smokes you buy is one less needed healthy meal - Every bit of pot you buy - is one less new pair of socks - one less clean glass of water...so - as my dad told me about his days starving in a prisoner of war camp --- Those that traded their food ration for a cigarette ----ALL DIED....When it gets down to the crunch in our falling economy --- people will choose between a steak and a bottle of rye...You can't have it all...pot is as alcohol - a toxin - a poison....and does not sustain life....and if you don't eat you lose weight until you are gone.

[DrGreenthumb]

When you are on a limited income - every pack of smokes you buy is one less needed healthy meal - Every bit of pot you buy - is one less new pair of socks - one less clean glass of water...so - as my dad told me about his days starving in a prisoner of war camp --- Those that traded their food ration for a cigarette ----ALL DIED....When it gets down to the crunch in our falling economy --- people will choose between a steak and a bottle of rye...You can't have it all...pot is as alcohol - a toxin - a poison....and does not sustain life....and if you don't eat you lose weight until you are gone.

Actually pot is NON-TOXIC, that means that unlike alcohol it is NOT poisonous to your body. You can not overdose on pot no matter how hard you try. There is enough poison in one bottle of rye to cause alcohol poisoning.

[Oleg Bach]

Actually pot is NON-TOXIC, that means that unlike alcohol it is NOT poisonous to your body. You can not overdose on pot no matter how hard you try. There is enough poison in one bottle of rye to cause alcohol poisoning.

I love it when the pot smokers run to protect and promote their way of life...great - try eating a few grams of high grade hashish - you will not die but you will crawl about on all fours...I know that from my childhood experiences. POT - the high grade stuff ruins your life - it makes you stupid. My yougest son discovers alcohol --- does not like it much --- he discovers POT - he just loves it - discovers sex - he likes it as much as his pot which is pitiful...Today I went food shopping with the boy....he shopped and I watched as he pushed the cart --- he had smoked a dube earlier --

-He has changed...gone is the bright and energetic acute and intelligent boy - He was slow - and dithered like an old man....smoking pot was not and is not in his best interest...sure I will have a toke on occassion with my gin...but in my heart - I LOATH POT...my son will never be the person he was meant to be - nor will he achieve his goals and dreams in full.....Is that loss worth it just for that stupid little strange feeling? It would be better not to drink and not to smoke that posion.

[GostHacked]

I love it when the pot smokers run to protect and promote their way of life...great - try eating a few grams of high grade hashish - you will not die but you will crawl about on all fours...I know that from my childhood experiences. POT - the high grade stuff ruins your life - it makes you stupid. My yougest son discovers alcohol --- does not like it much --- he discovers POT - he just loves it - discovers sex - he likes it as much as his pot which is pitiful...Today I went food shopping with the boy....he shopped and I watched as he pushed the cart --- he had smoked a dube earlier --

How old is this person you are talking about?

I don't drink much. And when I do, it takes me a few days to get over a hangover or whatever. I had not had a beer in about 3 weeks, then last sunday I had about 6 that day .... I felt like shit the next day.

I smoke every day, and when I wake up, I feel fine and ready to get my day started.

Also, the high grade stuff is better, you need a lot less to get you stoned. You end up smoking less because of it, because the high seems to last longer. Also, who is dumb enough to swallow a couple grams of high grade hash? Of COURSE you are gonna feel sick. Same as if you swallowed a couple grams of weed. It will make you feel sick. Down a whole pitcher of beer and see how well you feel.

-He has changed...gone is the bright and energetic acute and intelligent boy - He was slow - and dithered like an old man....smoking pot was not and is not in his best interest...sure I will have a toke on occassion with my gin...but in my heart - I LOATH POT...my son will never be the person he was meant to be - nor will he achieve his goals and dreams in full.....Is that loss worth it just for that stupid little strange feeling? It would be better not to drink and not to smoke that posion.

Sure, I can agree with that. Don't smoke or drink, or eat fatty unhealthy foods. Some people learn from their mistakes. Others become addicts and don't have any control over their lives at all.

Edited February 4, 2009 by GostHacked

[normanchateau]

Ah but what value are proper scientific studies when instead you can listen to the anecdotes of a dozen pot heads?

(sarcasm intended)

I agree that government policies on drugs should be based on scientific evidence rather than personal anecdotes from drug users. The problem, in my opinion, is that too often government drug policies are based on ideology rather than scientific evidence.