The Anti-Immigration Sentiment

[trooper]

I've been lurking on this board for a while now but haven't posted yet, but as I was browsing some of the older threads I really can't for the life of me understand the anti-immigrant sentiment on here. It's quite extraordinary. I've been to the US, and I've not seen this in most states other than illegal immigrants.as

What's with quite a few Canadians trying to impose their hatred for anything different? By distancing yourself from an immigrant, you are fostering more hatred and isolation from the group.

Immigrants also struggle (often more than others) to make their mark. They are often looked down upon by employers as someone who can't speak good English even though they usually do. They are often paid lower wages than others and their degrees that they worked for many years in their countries here contrary to the US are worthless. I find the attitude of "they are stealing our jobs" as insulting and pathetic.

The Canadian government promises all kinds of things, says that there is a shortage of skilled professionals i.e. Doctors, brings doctors who eagerly immigrate here but they end up having to start from scratch or studying for 3-4 more years. If that's the case, why advertise for them in the first place?

It was shown in a recent research that only 7% of all the welfare recipients in Canada are immigrants (mostly refugees) yet the attitude is as if most of the immigrants are leeching off of the system. I ask why is that?

If the Conservative party is looking for a majority status, the immigrant vote is quite crucial, yet, I see many self-professed conservatives (especially the older generation) quite anti-immigrant and talk as if the immigrants are not as patriotic as them. This is the same to some in the leftwing as well.

So I ask to those who are anti-immigrant here to speak up your arguments.

Edited January 3, 2009 by trooper

[Mr.Canada]

The Conservative part has more minority and female MP's than any other party.

[trooper]

The Conservative part has more minority and female MP's than any other party.

Please provide examples other than Toronto and Vancouver. We all know conservatives run them on these constituencies as non-minorities can't win.

[madmax]

The Conservative part has more minority and female MP's than any other party.

Are you suggesting that there is no more room to grow, or more room to grow with regards to Minorities and Females in the CPC.

I also think the CPC has more Gay MPs then the other parties.

[LesterDC]

I've been lurking on this board for a while now but haven't posted yet, but as I was browsing some of the older threads I really can't for the life of me understand the anti-immigrant sentiment on here. It's quite extraordinary. I've been to the US, and I've not seen this in most states other than illegal immigrants.as

What's with quite a few Canadians trying to impose their hatred for anything different? By distancing yourself from an immigrant, you are fostering more hatred and isolation from the group.

Immigrants also struggle (often more than others) to make their mark. They are often looked down upon by employers as someone who can't speak good English even though they usually do. They are often paid lower wages than others and their degrees that they worked for many years in their countries here contrary to the US are worthless. I find the attitude of "they are stealing our jobs" as insulting and pathetic.

The Canadian government promises all kinds of things, says that there is a shortage of skilled professionals i.e. Doctors, brings doctors who eagerly immigrate here but they end up having to start from scratch or studying for 3-4 more years. If that's the case, why advertise for them in the first place?

It was shown in a recent research that only 7% of all the welfare recipients in Canada are immigrants (mostly refugees) yet the attitude is as if most of the immigrants are leeching off of the system. I ask why is that?

If the Conservative party is looking for a majority status, the immigrant vote is quite crucial, yet, I see many self-professed conservatives (especially the older generation) quite anti-immigrant and talk as if the immigrants are not as patriotic as them. This is the same to some in the leftwing as well.

So I ask to those who are anti-immigrant here to speak up your arguments.

I know that there are some people people on this forum who are condescending towards immigrants (Mr.Canada) and it sickens me.. To me, immigrants are as Canada as any other; in fact, this country was somewhat built by immigrants, so what gives? Apparently, some people think that the citizenship card doesn't really mean much anymore.. I take quite a lot of pride as a Canadian to know that we are very libertarian and friendly towards immigrants.

[eyeball]

I've been lurking on this board for a while now but haven't posted yet, but as I was browsing some of the older threads I really can't for the life of me understand the anti-immigrant sentiment on here. It's quite extraordinary. I've been to the US, and I've not seen this in most states other than illegal immigrants.as

What's with quite a few Canadians trying to impose their hatred for anything different?

I think "quite a few" is probably a misperception, its really only a small noisy handful that happen to be a little more concentrated at MLW than some other boards is all.

If the Conservative party is looking for a majority status, the immigrant vote is quite crucial, yet, I see many self-professed conservatives (especially the older generation) quite anti-immigrant and talk as if the immigrants are not as patriotic as them.

I think if you look closely you'll find this issue of questioning immigrant patriotism is almost entirely directed at Muslims. I think it reflects the tendancy of most conservatives to support the west's ongoing interference in Muslim regions of the world. Perhaps these conservatives think we're doing the Muslims a favour and regard any ingratitude some might feel as a lack of patriotism.

This is the same to some in the leftwing as well.

By the same token of misperception I think "some" is even fewer than a small handful. In fact just a cursory glance around this forum indicates conservatives hate and fear caucasion lefties way way more than they do muslims or immigrants. Its bad enough when the little brown people of the world get all uppity in the face of western superiority but when pink people like themselves do it...ooooooh....nothing gets them madder.

Edited January 3, 2009 by eyeball

[JB Globe]

The Conservative part has more minority and female MP's than any other party.

During the last election (not this year's) I saw some stats saying that the Cons were the worst in both categories.

Maybe things have changed drastically since then, I don't know - can I see the study?

[JB Globe]

The reason you see a lot of stuff on here and other internet sites is that these are the only places where hardliner xenophobes can express their opinions anymore. There's so few of them left that very few media outlets represent their views at all anymore. No political party represents their views, and it's not even safe to express these views in social gatherings because they can no longer assume that because someone's white that they'll agree with them that immigrants are garbage.

So the anonymous internet is the only place where folks can congregate, hence why it appears as though there are more than there actually are - because they've been excluded from everywhere else.

[Smallc]

The thing is, all of us, who live in this world, well, we're all people. There really is no black, white, etc, there are only people. Now, as people, we may think differently, we may act differently, but that doesn't change what we are. I have no problem with people of any colour that come from any place and I welcome them to this beautiful country.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Smallc

[trooper]

The ironic part is that many immigrants espouse the conservative values of limited government, individual liberty and family values (although the conservative party uses these as a slogan rather than practicing it these days) but yet vote Liberal overwhelmingly due to being alienated by the Conservatives. Yet, the same conservatives complain as if the Liberal party is implementing a scheme to get immigrant supporters.

All they need to do is listen.

This is not trying to be anti-CPC but rather showing that the conservatives aren't doing a good job of getting votes that would have been in the bag had they not been having such pre-conceived notions.

[LesterDC]

The thing is, all of us, who live in this world, well, we're all people. There really is no black, white, etc, there are only people. Now, as people, we may think differently, we may act differently, but that doesn't change what we are. I have no problem with people of any colour that come from any place and I welcome them to this beautiful country.

Above all is humanity

[JB Globe]

This is not trying to be anti-CPC but rather showing that the conservatives aren't doing a good job of getting votes that would have been in the bag had they not been having such pre-conceived notions.

Exactly - and in the past two elections the cons have made a clear effort to shut up those xenophobic backbenchers in Parliament and campaign heavily in Chinese, South Asian, etc, communities - and the result is they got more votes. They finally came the realization that multiculturalism and/or immigration is just one of dozens of issues that they care about, and that the majority of the issues they care about are identical to all other Canadians.

[trooper]

Don't expect anything to be different for another couple of decades or so. The largely ignored immigrant population are staying quiet right now as most of them have humility due to their professional backgrounds, but the next generation which will not be humble enough to take the crap, and will become a silent majority in Canada.

I just hope it doesn't turn violent then like in France.

Watch this for an EYE-OPENING view: http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?d...731103789283707

I'm already seeing a widespread dissent from many immigrants in Canada and the anti-immigrant sentiment will only fuel it. The next generation of immigrants will be born into this poverty and will most likely be pissed off.

[Mr.Canada]

Or we could just not admit them in the first place. That would solve everything. We are in a recession atm anyhow so I think a reduction of immigration levels is prudent. If ouir own people cannot find jobs how does it make sense to admit more foreigners?

[trooper]

Or we could just not admit them in the first place. That would solve everything. We are in a recession atm anyhow so I think a reduction of immigration levels is prudent. If ouir own people cannot find jobs how does it make sense to admit more foreigners?

You actually think Immigration is actually hurting the economy?

Let's see, 250,000 immigrants a year, $975/per person processing fee into government coffers.

Plus, CDN $2.5 – CDN $ 5.0 billion of foreign reserves that these immigrants bring along with them. Plus, add to that, most will do the slave labour equivalent of working minimum wage janitor jobs that no one else will do.

The baby boomer generation are now taken care of by the money brought in by the immigrants. How else? We unfortunately live in a pseudo-socialist system where it is unsustainable as there are more taking the benefits than putting in (baby boomers). The genius idea of the government to increase the tax payer base and fill their coffers is false promises of "skilled labour demand" and no jobs.

[ToadBrother]

Or we could just not admit them in the first place. That would solve everything. We are in a recession atm anyhow so I think a reduction of immigration levels is prudent. If ouir own people cannot find jobs how does it make sense to admit more foreigners?

The current economic situation is only temporary, and at the end of it we'll still have a labour shortage. I'd be delighted to hear how you're going to fill that.

Lemme guess, make condoms illegal, right?

[Ontario Loyalist]

What's with quite a few Canadians trying to impose their hatred for anything different? By distancing yourself from an immigrant, you are fostering more hatred and isolation from the group.

Everybody likes to live in a society where they feel comfortable, safe, and part of a community, and whenever there is a large influx of people, then there is bound to be problems. One of the problems is that the people who are immigrating tend to want to maintain part or much of their identity and view Canada as a place where they should be able to continue living as though in their homeland, while benefiting from Canada's relative wealth and prosperity. That's not exactly a recipe for a strong and unified country.

Immigrants also struggle (often more than others) to make their mark. They are often looked down upon by employers as someone who can't speak good English even though they usually do. They are often paid lower wages than others and their degrees that they worked for many years in their countries here contrary to the US are worthless. I find the attitude of "they are stealing our jobs" as insulting and pathetic.

As per above, and also it needs to be recognized that NO, most do NOT "usually" speak good English. Do you live in an area where there is a significant immigration community? Do you repeatedly have to deal with people who cannot understand what you are saying?

Now when you say they are paid lower wages, do you mean for the exact same job or because they have to work more meanial jobs? The former is illegal, the latter should be expected because that's how it has usually been for immigrants, even way back when they were mostly all European. Whatever the case, many of these immigrants are allowed in because of their money, and that means that even if they can't find high paying jobs they aren't exactly struggling to get by.

[trooper]

Everybody likes to live in a society where they feel comfortable, safe, and part of a community, and whenever there is a large influx of people, then there is bound to be problems. One of the problems is that the people who are immigrating tend to want to maintain part or much of their identity and view Canada as a place where they should be able to continue living as though in their homeland, while benefiting from Canada's relative wealth and prosperity. That's not exactly a recipe for a strong and unified country.

As per above, and also it needs to be recognized that NO, most do NOT "usually" speak good English. Do you live in an area where there is a significant immigration community? Do you repeatedly have to deal with people who cannot understand what you are saying?

Now when you say they are paid lower wages, do you mean for the exact same job or because they have to work more meanial jobs? The former is illegal, the latter should be expected because that's how it has usually been for immigrants, even way back when they were mostly all European. Whatever the case, many of these immigrants are allowed in because of their money, and that means that even if they can't find high paying jobs they aren't exactly struggling to get by.

So when the Italians came here and lived and still do among their own community, speak their own languages amongst themselves, continue living like they lived in Italy while benefiting from Canada's relative wealth and prosperity it is Okay but if some Chinese or a Muslim does that it's wrong?

Obviously there will be a slight accent. You can't expect them to have perfect Canadian accents just as you can't expect a Brit or a Southerner from the US, you will not understand them, that doesn't mean they don't "usually" speak good English. In fact, most studied Engineering etc. in English (duh!) if it's the accent, then maybe Canada should only advertise for immigrants who speak English with a Canadian accent. (Good luck getting them)

How much money do you think they bring in? $25,000, $50,000 or $75,000? Even if they are unemployed or underemployed, that money will dwindle easily. You must know unless you make $100k/year. I find it hilarious that you are trying to brush the issue aside as "they will get by, they have the money" when in reality, most are struggling and are at a breaking point.

Do you know what it's like to get resume's declined for being "Over Qualified" by some and decline by others for not having any "Canadian Experience" even if they had US or UK experience? The issue is not brought up often as most are quiet, but like I said, the next generation born over the last 10 years and the next 5 years will not take this and you will hear more about them over the next couple of decades.

Gangs, social unrest and dissent is caused due to this sort of upbringing until the Canadian government stops BS'ing around and actually does something about accreditation. The US system is much more fair and Canada should adopt such a system, I don't see how Canadian experience is superior than American?

Edited January 5, 2009 by trooper

[gordiecanuk]

Immigration is a foundation of Canadian society, we all know that. Reducing immigration during a period of economic difficulty...while it would make the 'red neck' fringe very happy, it would hurt us in the long run.

Canada's education system is sadly lacking in providing employers with skilled and technical employees. Sure we're great at producing students adept in the areas of Liberal arts and critical thinking, but that doesn't help a company desperately seeking someone who knows how to use java script or other specialized skills. Even in a recession there is demand for highly skilled workers...demand that our education system isn't meeting.

Sure we're exploiting the educational systems of countries like India and China, but what the heck...if our's isn't meeting the demand we'll look elsewhere.

[whowhere]

I've been lurking on this board for a while now but haven't posted yet, but as I was browsing some of the older threads I really can't for the life of me understand the anti-immigrant sentiment on here. It's quite extraordinary. I've been to the US, and I've not seen this in most states other than illegal immigrants.as

What's with quite a few Canadians trying to impose their hatred for anything different? By distancing yourself from an immigrant, you are fostering more hatred and isolation from the group.

Immigrants also struggle (often more than others) to make their mark. They are often looked down upon by employers as someone who can't speak good English even though they usually do. They are often paid lower wages than others and their degrees that they worked for many years in their countries here contrary to the US are worthless. I find the attitude of "they are stealing our jobs" as insulting and pathetic.

The Canadian government promises all kinds of things, says that there is a shortage of skilled professionals i.e. Doctors, brings doctors who eagerly immigrate here but they end up having to start from scratch or studying for 3-4 more years. If that's the case, why advertise for them in the first place?

It was shown in a recent research that only 7% of all the welfare recipients in Canada are immigrants (mostly refugees) yet the attitude is as if most of the immigrants are leeching off of the system. I ask why is that?

If the Conservative party is looking for a majority status, the immigrant vote is quite crucial, yet, I see many self-professed conservatives (especially the older generation) quite anti-immigrant and talk as if the immigrants are not as patriotic as them. This is the same to some in the leftwing as well.

So I ask to those who are anti-immigrant here to speak up your arguments.

If I were an immigrant, Canada would be the last place on earth I choose. The pure lain Canadian is lazy and self-rightous. That said immigrants are Country rejects who couldn't cut the mustard from whence they came so they come here and exagerate their worth and abilities. The only reason Canada needs immigrants is because Canada's politicians are spending money Canada doesn't have so they see immigration as a source of tax revenue generation. I am not sure what your problem is because employers love immigrants and they will hire immigrants over a Canadian any day of the week. Why?? Because employers only care about money and they see you as way to save and keep more money for themselves. The Forest Gump Politicians and Bureacrats don't get that they are to blame for driving down wages and living conditions for the Lazy self rightous Canadians and in turn are not realizing the increase tax revenue they thought would gain. Stupid is what stupid does. Stupid politicians and Stupid Bureacrats. You don't have to look to far for them they are the card carrying members of the Conservative party of Canada.

[Moonbox]

whowhere you're being foolish or you're totally wrong on basically every point. Let's examine:

If I were an immigrant, Canada would be the last place on earth I choose. The pure lain Canadian is lazy and self-rightous.

Your lazy and uninformed rants unfortunately lead one to this conclusion....

That said immigrants are Country rejects who couldn't cut the mustard from whence they came so they come here and exagerate their worth and abilities.

Or they live in crap holes that don't give them the opportunity to succeed like they could here. There is a CRAPTON of immigrants making huge money and a lot of their children do even better. Yes, refugee families coming over here are likely not going to succeed and will just drain the system but that leads us to our next point...

You don't have to look to far for them they are the card carrying members of the Conservative party of Canada.

The open-door immigration policy you complain about is LIBERAL policy. I've tried telling you a dozen times before but the conservatives have tried to reform immigration policy so we take LESS unqualified immigrants and replace those spots with immigrants more likely to become productive citizens.

Stress yourself out all you want. This is 'poor me' syndrome at its worst. You have yourself to blame for your current economic situation. Blaming general ethnic minorities for your inability to compete in the work environment is about as intelligent as blaming someone nearby when you trip on your own shoe lace.

[Fracas]

Immigration is a foundation of Canadian society, we all know that. ...

We are no longer living in the 19th century. Capitalism and western values are the foundation of the Canadian society. Yes, the country can benefit from bringing in more immigrants. Unforunately, most of the new immigrants are liars and don't give a damn about Canada and western values. That is a shame. Selection process must be very strict and the number of immigrants from non-western countries must be greatly reduced.

[Moonbox]

I think the guidelines definetly need to be made more strict.

[guyser]

If I were an immigrant, Canada would be the last place on earth I choose.

And we regret that you aren't an immigrant.

Stupid is what stupid does.

Like posting Canadians are lazy and immigrants are rejects?

[White Doors]

At the same time, asking Immigration Canada to get it's show in order is not necessarily exhibiting anti-immigrant sentiment.

I have honestly seen very little anti-immigrant sentiment on this board.